AZPhil Posted August 1, 2021 Posted August 1, 2021 I'm not sure this is the correct place because I don't know if communications is the issue. Every Insteon device in the home is dual band, so virtually all signalling is done by RF. Device with a problem: An Insteon KPL (2334-2, V.45, configured as 8-button pad - although ISY console labels it as 5 buttons.) All of the buttons on this pad work fine except the "G" button. Several of the buttons on the pad control scenes that have multiple controllers, such as buttons on other keypads. All of the scenes and controllers work correctly except for button "G" on the controller in question. The G button works perfectly as a controller but refuses to act as a responder. Meaning, when a different controller is used to turn on the scene controlled by button G, the LED on button G does not go to "ON" state (although the console shows it as ON), and also if it is manually turned ON, it does not go to OFF state when a different controller turns off the scene. All cases are set up identically. A device or group of devices is assigned to a scene. Buttons on multiple keypads are added to the scene as controllers as well as the devices themselves if they are single control devices. All of the controllers also act as responders when the scene is controlled elsewhere. This particular scene contains a pair of wall sconces in a hallway that were originally wired with standard 3-way switches using a "traveler" wire at each end of the hallway. The "master" switch (the one with a direct "hot" wire) now has an Insteon 2477S relay as controller, and the "slave" end has a 2487S configured as a 5 button KPL. The "Hall" scene contins both of these as a controller, and four other KPLs each have a button that is added to the scene as a controller. When the "hall" button is pressed on any of the controllers, the lights come on and all of the LEDs associated with hall scene controllers light up. Except button G on the subject pad. Yet, G works perfectly as a controller, and all associated LEDs elsewhere light up to indicate the state of the sconces. The event log seems to show the signals being sent and the ISY console says the button is in the correct state. Except it isn't. Color me baffled.
lilyoyo1 Posted August 2, 2021 Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, AZPhil said: I'm not sure this is the correct place because I don't know if communications is the issue. Every Insteon device in the home is dual band, so virtually all signalling is done by RF. Device with a problem: An Insteon KPL (2334-2, V.45, configured as 8-button pad - although ISY console labels it as 5 buttons.) All of the buttons on this pad work fine except the "G" button. Several of the buttons on the pad control scenes that have multiple controllers, such as buttons on other keypads. All of the scenes and controllers work correctly except for button "G" on the controller in question. The G button works perfectly as a controller but refuses to act as a responder. Meaning, when a different controller is used to turn on the scene controlled by button G, the LED on button G does not go to "ON" state (although the console shows it as ON), and also if it is manually turned ON, it does not go to OFF state when a different controller turns off the scene. All cases are set up identically. A device or group of devices is assigned to a scene. Buttons on multiple keypads are added to the scene as controllers as well as the devices themselves if they are single control devices. All of the controllers also act as responders when the scene is controlled elsewhere. This particular scene contains a pair of wall sconces in a hallway that were originally wired with standard 3-way switches using a "traveler" wire at each end of the hallway. The "master" switch (the one with a direct "hot" wire) now has an Insteon 2477S relay as controller, and the "slave" end has a 2487S configured as a 5 button KPL. The "Hall" scene contins both of these as a controller, and four other KPLs each have a button that is added to the scene as a controller. When the "hall" button is pressed on any of the controllers, the lights come on and all of the LEDs associated with hall scene controllers light up. Except button G on the subject pad. Yet, G works perfectly as a controller, and all associated LEDs elsewhere light up to indicate the state of the sconces. The event log seems to show the signals being sent and the ISY console says the button is in the correct state. Except it isn't. Color me baffled. Was this originally a 6 button kpl with an 8 button faceplate? I ask because If your 8 button is showing up as a 5 button then it was added as a 6 button kpl. If this is truly an 8 button kpl, delete the device from the Isy, factory reset it, and then re-add it. Your buttons should then show all 8 and work properly Edited August 2, 2021 by lilyoyo1 1
kclenden Posted August 2, 2021 Posted August 2, 2021 (edited) On 8/1/2021 at 7:45 PM, AZPhil said: the LED on button G does not go to "ON" state (although the console shows it as ON) On 8/1/2021 at 7:45 PM, AZPhil said: and the ISY console says the button is in the correct state. Except it isn't. When devices are grouped in a scene, the ISY doesn't actually monitor them to see if they react to a scene ON or OFF command. Instead, when the ISY sees a scene command, it assumes that all devices in the scene have reacted appropriately. Since the ISY shows the button G status as ON, it means that the ISY knows that button G on that keypad is in the scene that has been command ON, and so it updates the button G status accordingly. For that reason, at some point the ISY should have created a link in that particular keypad's Links Table that corresponds to button G being a responder for that scene. Before trying @lilyoyo1's suggestions above, you might try performing a RESTORE on the subject keypad (i.e. right-click on the device and choose "Restore Device"). The ISY will rewrite the Links Table in the device which should restore any missing links that might be keeping button G from responding to certain scene commands. Edited August 3, 2021 by kclenden
MrBill Posted August 2, 2021 Posted August 2, 2021 @AZPhil In addition to @lilyoyo1 comment, here's what I recommend. Delete the switch from the ISY, and factory reset it by pulling the set button switch out, waiting 10 seconds then pushing the the set button switch all the way in and HOLDING until you hear a long beep and the long beep stops. AFTER the beep STOPS is when to quit holding it in. Now before adding it back to the ISY press A, did B also turn on? Press G, did H also turn on? if so the switch is defaulting to 6 button firmware. You can change it to 8-button. To Change From 6-Button to 8-Button Firmware: Pull the set button out and wait 10 seconds Press in the Set button while holding in the "Main On/Off" (or A) and "H" buttons. The switch will now have the correct firmware selected and you can re-add it to the ISY and should get the correct number of nodes. -------------------------------- For anyone stumbling onto this thread that wants to change the other direction. To Change from 8-button to 6-button Firmware: Pull the set button out and wait 10 seconds Press in the set button while holding the ON and OFF buttons. 1
AZPhil Posted August 2, 2021 Author Posted August 2, 2021 @lilyoyo1, @kclenden, @MrBill: Thanks for all your help. I have it working correctly now. I first ran the "Generate Topology" tool to provide an easy-to-use reference for reconstructing the button allocations. Then removed the device from the ISY, factory reset it, and re-added it to the ISY and renamed everything to their previous names. Then relinked the buttons per the previous topology. That fixed it. 16 hours ago, kclenden said: When devices are grouped in a scene, the ISY doesn't actually monitor them to see if they react to a scene ON or OFF command. Instead, when the ISY sees a scene command, it assumes that all devices in the scene have reacted appropriately. I pretty much assumed that was the way it worked. The log shows no communication traffic. It just shows the commands that were issued. All of the links were set up correctly. There was just something hidden that was preventing "G" from responding to network On/Off commands. 20 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: Was this originally a 6 button kpl with an 8 button faceplate? I ask because If your 8 button is showing up as a 5 button then it was added as a 6 button kpl. If this is truly an 8 button kpl, delete the device from the Isy, factory reset it, and then re-add it. Your buttons should then show all 8 and work properly My mentioning the labeled "type" in the admin console was a red herring. I believe the KPL did originally have a 6 button face which I replaced with an 8-button face. However, I have three 2334-2 KPLs configured with 8 button faces and all three are recognized as "Keypadlinc Dimmer 5 Buttons" in the admin console in addition to three others that are configured with 6 button faces. Nevertheless, when linked, the console generates the number of buttons that are actually configured to work for each device. My guess is the console program simply pulls text from a type table based on a part number it reads from the device.
lilyoyo1 Posted August 3, 2021 Posted August 3, 2021 2 hours ago, AZPhil said: @lilyoyo1, @kclenden, @MrBill: Thanks for all your help. I have it working correctly now. I first ran the "Generate Topology" tool to provide an easy-to-use reference for reconstructing the button allocations. Then removed the device from the ISY, factory reset it, and re-added it to the ISY and renamed everything to their previous names. Then relinked the buttons per the previous topology. That fixed it. I pretty much assumed that was the way it worked. The log shows no communication traffic. It just shows the commands that were issued. All of the links were set up correctly. There was just something hidden that was preventing "G" from responding to network On/Off commands. My mentioning the labeled "type" in the admin console was a red herring. I believe the KPL did originally have a 6 button face which I replaced with an 8-button face. However, I have three 2334-2 KPLs configured with 8 button faces and all three are recognized as "Keypadlinc Dimmer 5 Buttons" in the admin console in addition to three others that are configured with 6 button faces. Nevertheless, when linked, the console generates the number of buttons that are actually configured to work for each device. My guess is the console program simply pulls text from a type table based on a part number it reads from the device. It'll pull the buttons for how it's configured but the label will show what it actually is.
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