Is RadioRA3 the Ultimate Replacement For Insteon?

[larryllix]

All sounds really good but I will wait some more time, to see how the performance actually pans out, since nobody seems to know anything about the protocol or other tech details.

This would be a big jump to start another system protocol without much feedback yet, and like you, those prices are very repressive.

Is this going to be another single sourced and protected protocol that will make us  "lone wolves" again?

[lilyoyo1]

5 hours ago, upstatemike said:

Do we know if Lutron will allow UDI to integrate with RA3? Lutron is aggressive at maintaining barriers between products targeting different market segments. Will they use the transition from Telnet to LEAP as an opportunity to segregate high end integration partners like Crestron, Control4, and Elan from DIY focused platforms like Hubitat, Homeseer, and Polisy? Can UDI make the case that they compete within the high dollar integator group?

I doubt they really care that much. If they wanted to lock down Ra2 from diy systems, they could've put barriers in place from the beginning but chose not to. They could have also installed barriers after the fact. Once again, they chose not to. 

The fact that they allow anyone to take the course to unlock the software speaks volumes as well as they could've simply put it behind a paywall like they did the ra2 level 2 course and left it for dealers only.

One of the qualifications for partnership is the qualifying company must show they are able to fully support and troubleshoot the system should the need arise. This might cut out some diy setups like HA but increases the likelihood that actual companies such as UDI, hubitat, and homeseer are allowed to add support.  

Homeworks is also their full integrator only line. They don't really need 2. It goes back to the training. Why open something to DIYers without allowing diy controllers access. It might be some time but i do forsee it happening at some point

[upstatemike]

One interesting thing I noticed was that Control4 is listed as a partner. Under what circumstances would you install a Control4 system and not use Control4 switches and keypads?

[simplextech]

24 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

One interesting thing I noticed was that Control4 is listed as a partner. Under what circumstances would you install a Control4 system and not use Control4 switches and keypads?

In a takeover where the customer already had Lutron.  Or a customer that prefers Lutron over C4 switches (queue @lilyoyo1).

[lilyoyo1]

11 hours ago, upstatemike said:

One interesting thing I noticed was that Control4 is listed as a partner. Under what circumstances would you install a Control4 system and not use Control4 switches and keypads?

C4 could always work with Lutron. Simplextech is correct in why people use lutron over C4 switches.

While C4 switches look better than Ra2, lutron switches are cheaper and work better (not saying C4 switches are bad).

There is some performance loss and feature loss in doing so. Now that lutron has R3, most likely I'll end up using more of their devices with C4 due to the looks and because I can keep uniformity throughout the house with standard sunnata dimmmers (not everyone wants to replace every single switch). This can be a huge cost savings to the customer

[upstatemike]

Makes sense but if you are not using C4 switches is C4 still the best platform for automation? Maybe it would be better to use Radio RA3 with RTI or URC or something along those lines?

[lilyoyo1]

14 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Makes sense but if you are not using C4 switches is C4 still the best platform for automation? Maybe it would be better to use Radio RA3 with RTI or URC or something along those lines?

Best is relative. It's less about being better or worse but having options. Granted, the system is faster with C4 than Lutron but you're talking about a split second vs seconds. 

For example, you want me to install a lighting system today and you have no desire for AV integration. It's cheaper to put in Lutron for that than C4. 2 years from now, you decide you want AV integration. Now, I can put C4 in and integrate it with your switches at a lesser cost. 

Don't get me wrong, if I'm doing a full whole house system, I'd still use C4 completely. If they only have a few lighting loads they want to control (with or without AV) I'd go with Ra3/sunnata mix.

I'd never use UCR overall, but with Harmony no longer in the game, I'll probably take the course again for a lower cost alternative for smart remotes. 

RTI is nice. I used it in my old house. It's a big difference using their stuff vs using C4 though. They aren't on the same level. While it could be a great lower cost alternative to C4, it'll probably cause more headaches with the type of clientele i want than it solves.