dpierre Posted November 25, 2021 Posted November 25, 2021 Happy Thanksgiving to all! I have read through the mountain of threads concerning the discontinuation of the serial PLM. After approximately 11 years of faithful service mine has finally crashed. I have read workarounds that state you can possibly use a hub to accomplish the function or the Polisy or replacing the caps in the PLM, that are a known culprit. I have but one question for those of you who were in the same predicament. What's the best known workaround. In the meantime, I've been keeping a close eye on Ebay for a PLM or hub. Thank you
Brian H Posted November 25, 2021 Posted November 25, 2021 Is the PLM a 2412S or the presently used 2413S? The 2412S was power line only and could power the ISY controller. Through the serial port cable. The 2413S does not so the external ISY power supply is needed. I have seen some buying a 2413U USB PLM and then swapping the serial board from the old serial PLM into the new PLM. I have not seen any reports of a HUB and an ISY controller working with each other. The earlier version HUB also had power supply issues. So use care if you find one. As there where two models. 2242-222 and 2245-222.
dpierre Posted November 25, 2021 Author Posted November 25, 2021 Yes mine is the the 2413S. Thanks for the info. Brian
MrBill Posted November 25, 2021 Posted November 25, 2021 Since it's a 2413S the path of least resistance is likely the board swap with a new 2413U as Brian mentions in paragraph 3.
hart2hart Posted November 25, 2021 Posted November 25, 2021 If you’re capable of soldering, replacing the caps is a simple and highly effective fix. The hardest part for most is removing the existing ones.
dpierre Posted November 25, 2021 Author Posted November 25, 2021 Soldering should not be a problem. That being said, guess I need to decide on board replacement or caps. Thanks for everyone's quick response. Cheers!
MrBill Posted November 25, 2021 Posted November 25, 2021 @Schlyguy sells recapping kits on ebay. They do ship from Canada, mine arrived in a week. https://www.ebay.com/itm/174552309995 There are two version 5 and 7 capacitors. Looks like the 7 cap kit is sold out, but you might ask, When I purchased mine there was only 1 left of the 7 cap kit, and the next day there were 10 more. 1
LFMc Posted November 25, 2021 Posted November 25, 2021 Talk about 2413S PLMs on ebay, there is one that has 3 days of bidding to go and it is already up to over $200. Wow. https://www.ebay.com/itm/154712653107?hash=item240597bd33:g:2GQAAOSwXsdhmtFs
Techman Posted November 25, 2021 Posted November 25, 2021 Another option is to buy the USB PLM, which is still available from Smarthome, and remove the daughter board and replace it with the serial daughter board from your failed PLM. No soldering necessary.
dpierre Posted November 26, 2021 Author Posted November 26, 2021 Thanks Techman, Mr. Bill and LFMc. Definitely ideas to think about. I appreciate everyone's input.
Outlander Posted November 26, 2021 Posted November 26, 2021 Does anyone know if the EZIO8SA PLM is compatible or can be at least used for parts?
Brian H Posted November 26, 2021 Posted November 26, 2021 Are you asking about their EZIComm PLM or the Insteon 2412S or 2413S? The EZIO8SA would work with all of them. Mine are a 2412S with the EZIO8SA. The EZIComm was an Insteon base PLM with their own daughter board. It was originally a 2412 base board. Then a 2413 base board. Has issues like we did with the 2413 so they went back to the 2412 base board. I don't see why it would not work in any posts I have seen, but I don't know for a fact. Can it be used for parts. Depends on if it is a 2412 or 2413 base board and if they did any tweaking of the base boards firmware if any.
bobchap Posted November 27, 2021 Posted November 27, 2021 Hi all. I'm a little puzzled by this thread. Some recommendations include moving daughter cards, but the direction of replacement seems wrong. Are there ANY options to keep an ISY functioning down the road?
hart2hart Posted November 27, 2021 Posted November 27, 2021 PLM is basically two PCBs. The main PCB has a switching power supply with both undersized and cheap capacitors and appears to be identical between 2413S and 2413U PLMS. The other PCB is either a serial daughter board or USB daughter board. The main PCB is typical failure point and can be repaired by replacing the power supply capacitors or pulling the serial daughter board on the 2413S and putting it in a 2413U. There may be a few other devices that share the same main board as in the irrigation controller.
bobchap Posted November 27, 2021 Posted November 27, 2021 Got it, hart2hart. Thanks. Does all this mean that, down the road, we will have to switch to an insteon hub or else replace all our insteon devices with something else that the ISY likes? And any idea how this relates to "ISY on Polisy?"
hart2hart Posted November 27, 2021 Posted November 27, 2021 Two main issues with Insteon devices.There is a general lack of stock on all devices and it’s unclear (at least to me) if it’s related to supply chain issues or that Smartlabs is moving away from them to a new line in partnership with Nokia. Smartlabs very possibly will/ has discontinue(d) the 2413S due to lack of demand. From what I’ve researched, ISY users are about the only group still dependent on it and primarily due to failures not new installs. Other platforms supported both the serial and usb version or only the usb version. Twelve years ago when I started using Insteon, every PC had built in serial ports but no motherboard I’ve seen has had them in years. The ISY on Polisy supports both serial and usb. I’m looking to either find another reasonable protocol if Insteon ends. I like the look and reliability of Lutron so new RA3 is in my sights. It may depend on if a nodeserver can be developed for it or it gets native support on Polisy. I’ve got lots of Insteon spares so time for it or another better option to arise. In my opinion,for the long term, it has to go from a diy/luxury install to something builders install on a regular basis. I have not had any success with Z-Wave except 2 Schlage deadbolts and it required 5 repeaters to get them reliable. Tried to move to 500 series and spent two full days before moving back to 300 series. However others have great success with it. From reading here and other places it appears you have to have a dense mesh for success. My house is full of Insteon devices so mixing them is not an option now. I have a 700 series zwave usb stick for polisy and will try again with it. 1
icerabbit Posted December 5, 2021 Posted December 5, 2021 (edited) My most recent 2413S PLM may have died. Green light, but no comms. ISY says it may be dead, tried the reboot of both and moving outlets. Have had some response issues recently and today nothing works ... so another PLM bit the dust? No 2413S available from SmartHome. Can I confidently order a 2413U and convert it to ethernet (for my ISY) with a daughter card swap? Or? I have been trying to read up on SmartHome discontinuing the extremely short lived and failure prone 2413s without having the replacement on the market ( 2234? ) ... PolyISO and USB confuse me. I would not mind to attempt a cap repair, once we're up and running again ... Don't really want to oder an insteon hub either, but maybe they place nice with our ISY now? Edited December 5, 2021 by icerabbit
Brian H Posted December 5, 2021 Posted December 5, 2021 Others here have purchased a 2413U and swapped the Serial Daughter board from the old one. With success. The RJ45 style connector on a 2413S looks like a network connection but is really a Serial Port connection. Both the ISY994i and 2413S have serial signals on the network style cable between them. A HUB is not compatible with an ISY994i.
Techman Posted December 5, 2021 Posted December 5, 2021 25 minutes ago, icerabbit said: My most recent 2413S PLM may have died. Green light, but no comms. ISY says it may be dead, tried the reboot of both and moving outlets. Have had some response issues recently and today nothing works ... so another PLM bit the dust? No 2413S available from SmartHome. Can I confidently order a 2413U and convert it to ethernet (for my ISY) with a daughter card swap? Or? I have been trying to read up on SmartHome discontinuing the extremely short lived and failure prone 2413s without having the replacement on the market ( 2234? ) ... PolyISO and USB confuse me. I would not mind to attempt a cap repair, once we're up and running again ... Don't really want to oder an insteon hub either, but maybe they place nice with our ISY now? What do you mean " ISY says it may be dead", can you elaborate? When you click on TOOLS | DIAGNOSTICS | PLM STATUS does it show as connected?
icerabbit Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) Thank you for the responses and help. Admin console says " your system is in safe mode " ... if the problem persists, in all likelihood the PLM is defective. I have done a couple power cycles and tried different outlet, have not been able to get past it. Any actions that are programmed no longer execute. The green light on the PLM is on. Cable between the two properly seats. My unit is 2413S V2.2 1635 ... and a few years old, not sure. Quick Update 1... after having everything unplugged for an hour, seems isy now sees the plm ... cannot communitcate with anything, but it is system busy ... writing to everything ... curious where this will lead. But PLM was now detected and connected. 2. I let ISY do its thing, everything turns up with a red exclamation, nothing has a status or responds ... PLM is detected and connected ( will not try to find more troubleshooting info ) 3. ... going down the rabbit hole, still all red exclamation points, plm detected ... get as far as testing scenes, tests fail. Not sure where to go next ... While this may fix itself - temporarily ? - I guess I better order a PLM with USB, to have a backup handy. Edited December 6, 2021 by icerabbit
icerabbit Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 Still dead in the water. Read many threads. Had hope after another power cycle showing devices without ! ... but ISY just redeclared them all ! again. Don't know now if ordering a USB model and doing a board swap will work. ... SH not having new units for sale really blows ... while it is so critical. ?
Brian H Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 If you had the system powered down for a few hours. Then powered it back up and it saw the PLM. Even for a brief time. That is one of the typical failing PLM power supply issues. Others have swapped the serial card from the old PLM to the 2413U PLM and it worked fine. Though there is always a slim chance the serial port board has an issue. At V2.3 they used a serial interface chip with better ESD protection. V2.4 they redesigned the serial board and added signal protection to the serial signals. 1
Rob Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 I just did a daughterboard swap with a new USB one. The entire process took about 5 minutes, not including the time it took to replace the PLM in ISY. Everything appears to be working fine though I am still experiencing a weird local control status issue I'll post about in the correct forum.
larryllix Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 Begs the question. I wonder if anybody could procure the daughter boards from Insteon for a decent price ?My guess is no as Insteon seems to be trying to kill any sales or progress for the company until death do us part. Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
icerabbit Posted December 6, 2021 Posted December 6, 2021 Thank you. I will proceed and order a USB based model. Fingers crossed. I just talked to SmartHome phone support briefly. Was told that: - the 2413S is out of stock due to supply chain issues - it has not been discontinued - ETA is several months at a minimum, as they have had zero news ... so, some time next year it should be back. I asked for an escalation of my concern / call, regarding the critical nature of the PLM. Are people supposed to rip everything out that does not have a physical switch control and rewire for six months? Probably won't change anything. But, I want to give it a shot and make somebody past level 1 aware what this actually means for their customers ... and they ought to do something more than say wait 3-6 months. Maybe hit the brakes on some other product runs, do some limited runs and ship them out before you fill up a cargo container ... to help your stranded customers.
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