PG3 on Polisy

[bpwwer]

@jlambI believe I responded to clearing PG3 in another of your posts so I won't repeat that here.

But since this is a more generic PG3 on Polisy thread, the following is a more general observations and not directed at any one person.

When having an issue with PG2 or PG3 (or really any any piece of the Polisy/ISY environment) it is best to focus on the specific issue and try to contact the right folks for help on that issue.  When you start changing random things and try to "reset" everything you end up getting your system into a state where it is really hard for anyone else to understand what that state is.

Neither PG2 or PG3 on the Polisy are designed, at this point, to be fully deleted from the system or "reset" to a clean state.  They are designed to try and preserve your configuration so that you don't loose anything important.

When you have an issue, it is best to try and collect whatever log files you can and try to document the steps you've taken to the best of your ability.  The more details you have, the easier it will be for someone to help you.

For node servers, both PG2 and PG3 do a fairly large amount of logging.  Being able to trace the log and compare it against the actions you've performed are the only real tools that node server developers have to debug issues.   

Keep in mind that it's very likely that the developer has not seen the issue you are reporting. Thus generic statements don't provide any information the developer can use to resolve the issue.   I'll say it again.  Be specific and provide (or be ready to provide) logs.

 

[apostolakisl]

This may be answered elsewhere, but I can't find it.  I am trying to migrate nodes over from PG2 to PG3.  I have loaded lots of nodes on pg2 with many of them there as curiosities that I really don't care to pay to move to pg3.  I am starting by moving over what is free and then will buy what I actually want.

Anyway, I restored a pg2 backup in pg3 using the button that says it does that.  Example, Blue Iris now shows on pg3, but it still is on pg2.  Do I at this point delete it from pg2?  Or will that delete the node from ISY even though it is still on PG3?  The NS configuration page on ISY AC shows that the node is configured for PG3 with port 3000 as the port and other stuff that is c/w it talking to PG3.

I stopped the Blue Iris NS on PG2 and restarted it in PG3 and PG3 shows connected.  So now what?  Delete from PG2?

After restarting PG2, it still shows connected to Blue Iris, I would expect it to say unmanaged.

Edited May 5, 2022 by apostolakisl

[kzboray]

PG2 and PG3 are entirely different Polyglot servers. You can have them both running and servicing ISY's or IoP's. Each Polyglot server PG2 or PG3 can run multiple Node Servers. For example I have an ISY994 that uses a PG2 Harmony Hub NS, but I also have the PG3 version running and it talks to my IoP. Both run on my Polisy.

The problem would be if you have both PG2 and PG3 trying to modify or control the same device. I'm careful not to overlap.

Once you have things to your liking on PG3 and there are no dependencies like an ISY then you can simply delete the NS from PG2.

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, kzboray said:

PG2 and PG3 are entirely different Polyglot servers. You can have them both running and servicing ISY's or IoP's. Each Polyglot server PG2 or PG3 can run multiple Node Servers. For example I have an ISY994 that uses a PG2 Harmony Hub NS, but I also have the PG3 version running and it talks to my IoP. Both run on my Polisy.

The problem would be if you have both PG2 and PG3 trying to modify or control the same device. I'm careful not to overlap.

Once you have things to your liking on PG3 and there are no dependencies like an ISY then you can simply delete the NS from PG2.

So if I delete the node from PG2, it will not delete the configuration from ISY?  Right now, both PG2 and PG3 claim to be managing the same node.  Before manually "stopping" the PG2 version, both said "connected".  

PG2 below

PG3 below

Edited May 5, 2022 by apostolakisl

[kzboray]

That is correct. But once you have deleted the NS form PG2, the ISY will have no communications from those devices. It will be up to the IoP and your PG3 NS to take over.

[macjeff]

3 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

So if I delete the node from PG2, it will not delete the configuration from ISY?  Right now, both PG2 and PG3 claim to be managing the same node.  Before manually "stopping" the PG2 version, both said "connected".  

PG2 below

PG3 below

It’s kind of a headache but worth the effort. You have to delete it from PG2 And then immediately add again to PG3.   On most of the node servers everything was fine because the names and everything are exactly the same but in a few of them I had to a tweak some programs.  

[apostolakisl]

2 minutes ago, macjeff said:

It’s kind of a headache but worth the effort. You have to delete it from PG2 And then immediately add again to PG3.   On most of the node servers everything was fine because the names and everything are exactly the same but in a few of them I had to a tweak some programs.  

What if I is already on PG3?  Will I need to delete it from there and add it again?

[apostolakisl]

So this appears to be the story.

1) backup PG2

2) delete the PG2 nodes you plan on moving to PG3

3) restore the PG3 node server using the PG2 backup

4) restart the NS's you're migrating, perhaps twice before they show up in ISY.

Definitely not an elegant process.

[macjeff]

15 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

So this appears to be the story.

1) backup PG2

2) delete the PG2 nodes you plan on moving to PG3

3) restore the PG3 node server using the PG2 backup

4) restart the NS's you're migrating, perhaps twice before they show up in ISY.

Definitely not an elegant process.

That did not work for me. I had to manually do each node. The restore did not work but that was several months ago

[kzboray]

One of the most common reason the restore doesn't work is because you have installed NS on PG3 manually in different slots. If you are careful to use the same slots they were in on PG2 the restore should go off without a hitch.

I only mention it because you had said you have a lot of NS's. It might be easier to delete the ones you have installed on PG3 and just do a restore from PG2.

[bpwwer]

The restore from PG2 option was written for PG3 before I took over PG3 development and as @apostolakislsaid above, it's not an elegant solution.  It does sort of work, depending on what node servers are being backed up and restored, but in general, I'd not recommend using it.

The process basically goes through the node servers listed in the backup and attempts to find one in store with the same name and install it.  It will also try to port the configuration over.   It basically overwrites the node server configuration in the ISY for those node servers it successfully installs leaving the PG2 version orphaned. 

As far as PG2 is concerned, nothing changed.  It still thinks it has the node server installed and that it is working.  Since PG2 (and PG3) are designed to remove the node server from ISY when it's deleted, doing so on PG2 will very likely remove it from ISY, leaving PG3's version now in limbo.  The only real solution is to stop the PG2 version and either never restart it or simply stop PG2 entirely. 

If you're trying to migrate slowly and or still need PG2 running, it is much better to manually migrate the node servers you can to PG3 by first documenting the config, deleting the PG2 version, installing PG3 and updating the config.

[apostolakisl]

2 minutes ago, bpwwer said:

The restore from PG2 option was written for PG3 before I took over PG3 development and as @apostolakislsaid above, it's not an elegant solution.  It does sort of work, depending on what node servers are being backed up and restored, but in general, I'd not recommend using it.

The process basically goes through the node servers listed in the backup and attempts to find one in store with the same name and install it.  It will also try to port the configuration over.   It basically overwrites the node server configuration in the ISY for those node servers it successfully installs leaving the PG2 version orphaned. 

As far as PG2 is concerned, nothing changed.  It still thinks it has the node server installed and that it is working.  Since PG2 (and PG3) are designed to remove the node server from ISY when it's deleted, doing so on PG2 will very likely remove it from ISY, leaving PG3's version now in limbo.  The only real solution is to stop the PG2 version and either never restart it or simply stop PG2 entirely. 

If you're trying to migrate slowly and or still need PG2 running, it is much better to manually migrate the node servers you can to PG3 by first documenting the config, deleting the PG2 version, installing PG3 and updating the config.

I agree.  I would recommend doing what I did above because it carries over all your configurations for the nodes you do want to move over and it leaves any non-qualified nodes (ones you didn't pay for) as unmanaged.  But it is quite a goofy process.  

 

[GTench]

So if for example, I delete my EnvisaLink-DSC node server in PG2 and restore a PG2 backup to PG3 will my IoP show all of the renamed Zone names from IoP as they were when connected to PG2 or will I have to rename all my zones again as I did when I first installed it on PG2. When EnvisaLink-DSC was first installed on PG2 it used default zone names in IoP (Zone1, Zone2, etc). I am hoping not to go through the renaming process again,

thanks,

Gary

[bpwwer]

If the zone names are set via the custom parameters then they should carry over.  That assumes that the PG3 version uses the same custom parameters as the PG2 version.

Also note that the restore from PG2 backup is not selective, it tries to restore all the node servers from PG2, you can't just pick one and say restore this one only.

[GTench]

Thanks... unfortunately they cannot be changed in the custom parameters. I edited them in ISY.

[bpwwer]

Then if you delete the PG2 node server, it will delete the nodes from the ISY and when the PG3 version is installed, it will create the nodes with the default zone names.

If you don't delete the PG2 version (but simply stop it). The nodes will remain unchanged in the ISY and the PG3 version should inherit them.  This assumes that the PG2 and PG3 versions use the same node address.

Also, PG2 will restart all it's node servers if it is restarted so there's no good way to permanently disable a node server on PG2, other than by deleting it. 

Neither PG2 nor PG3 (yet) were designed to allow for migrations like this.  Unfortunately there's nothing we can really do about PG2 at this time so there are no good solutions.

[GTench]

OK thanks. I have 3 node servers: Blue IRIS, PLEX, EnvisaLink-DSC. I purchased the EnvisaLink-DSC. I backed up PG2. PG3 shows the 3 node servers as unmanaged. I deleted the 3 from PG2. I opened IoP and saw that they were gone there. I restored from PG2 backup in PG3. The 3 node servers still show up as unmanaged in PG3. Should I now just install the 3 node servers on PG3 but will this leave me with a managed and unmanaged version of each in PG3?

thanks,

Gary

[apostolakisl]

On 5/5/2022 at 3:00 PM, apostolakisl said:

So this appears to be the story.

1) backup PG2

2) delete the PG2 nodes you plan on moving to PG3

3) restore the PG3 node server using the PG2 backup

4) restart the NS's you're migrating, perhaps twice before they show up in ISY.

Definitely not an elegant process.

above is what I found to work.

@GTench

Edited May 7, 2022 by apostolakisl

[GTench]

Tried that but did nor work for me. After deleting PG2 nodes I was still left with 3 phantom unmanaged nodes in PG3. A restore from PG2 backup did nothing. If I try to install a new node server from the store it wants to go to slot 4 berceuse the phantom node servers are taking up the first 3 slots. So, what I found worked to get rid of the unmanaged 3 PG3 node servers was to just install any node server in the next available slot, 4 in my case. This then removed the unmanaged node servers. I then deleted the slot 4 node server and proceeded to install my 3 node servers into slots 1 to 3 as they were in PG2.

Gary

[apostolakisl]

25 minutes ago, GTench said:

Tried that but did nor work for me. After deleting PG2 nodes I was still left with 3 phantom unmanaged nodes in PG3. A restore from PG2 backup did nothing. If I try to install a new node server from the store it wants to go to slot 4 berceuse the phantom node servers are taking up the first 3 slots. So, what I found worked to get rid of the unmanaged 3 PG3 node servers was to just install any node server in the next available slot, 4 in my case. This then removed the unmanaged node servers. I then deleted the slot 4 node server and proceeded to install my 3 node servers into slots 1 to 3 as they were in PG2.

Gary

I think you needed to have the PG3 slots in question empty prior to restoring pg2 backup into pg3.

[GTench]

I think I tried that and it did not work for me but I cannot remember for sure

[apostolakisl]

53 minutes ago, GTench said:

I think I tried that and it did not work for me but I cannot remember for sure

sounded like you still had the unmanaged node servers in the first 3 slots when you called them "phantom".

[macjeff]

2 hours ago, GTench said:

Tried that but did nor work for me. After deleting PG2 nodes I was still left with 3 phantom unmanaged nodes in PG3. A restore from PG2 backup did nothing. If I try to install a new node server from the store it wants to go to slot 4 berceuse the phantom node servers are taking up the first 3 slots. So, what I found worked to get rid of the unmanaged 3 PG3 node servers was to just install any node server in the next available slot, 4 in my case. This then removed the unmanaged node servers. I then deleted the slot 4 node server and proceeded to install my 3 node servers into slots 1 to 3 as they were in PG2.

Gary

I had this issue.  Assuming you did delete the PG2 stuff before going to pg3 sometimes it did not delete from ISY.

Go to ISY and under the Node server menu I think you go down to configure.  See if any of those are there and if so delete them from ISY.  Then add them in Pg3. 

This happened twice.  Once when doing the original conversion and once when deleting a Node server when I had the admin console open at same time.  Both times the delete in the admin console fixed it

** make sure its deleted from both pg2 and pg3 first before deleting from ISY.  The only reason you should have to do this is if all else fails.

[GTench]

Here is the process that occurred in a bit more detail

I started off with 3 connected node servers in PG2 and showing up properly in IoP and functioning well. The same 3 node servers were also present in PG3 but were unmanaged with no obvious way to remove them.

I did a backup of PG2. I deleted all 3 node servers from PG2, checked in IoP and there were no node servers now shown there. I did however still have the 3 phantom node servers in PG3. I tried numerous reboots of PG2, PG3, and polisy. Checked in IoP and PG2 again and there were still no node servers there. Checked in Pg3 and the 3 phantom node servers were still there but there was still no button to delete them.  I tried numerous times to update PG3 from the PG2 backup with no success. I then installed a random free node server from the store in slot 4 as slots 1 to 3 were taken up by the phantom node servers. When the slot 4 node server finished installing I watched the PG3 screen as the phantom node servers vanished. I then deleted the slot 4 node server but cannot recall for sure if I tried to load PG3 from my PG2 backup again. PG3 now showed no node servers installed. I then manually installed my 3 node servers. Since I only had 3 of them, this was not a big deal other then renaming all my zones in IoP. I thought a fresh install might be a good thing to do kind of like reinstalling an OS to clean things up

I should point out a couple of things that likely impacted my ability to use the PG2 backup based on comments in previous threads. My EnvisaLink-DSC node server is configured differently from the defaults in the store; e,g., I added a parameter to set the number of zones higher than the default - I have 48 vs the default of 8. I also added more parameters that are not present in the default settings. So there is not an exact match between the PG2 nodes in my backup vs the default set from the store. Also I notice that PLEX starts of with 1 node but my PG2 backup has multiple nodes that were dynamically added over time as new devices accessed PLEX. I also believe that some of the PG2 nodes, although named the same, appeared in a different order than some PG3 nodes but I cannot be sure now that I have deleted the PG2 node servers.

Gary

 

[bpwwer]

2 hours ago, GTench said:

Here is the process that occurred in a bit more detail

I started off with 3 connected node servers in PG2 and showing up properly in IoP and functioning well. The same 3 node servers were also present in PG3 but were unmanaged with no obvious way to remove them.

Gary

 

Unmanaged means that that instance of polyglot (pg3 or pg2 whichever says they are unmanaged) does not own the node server installation and thus, can't do anything with those node servers.

Both versions periodically check the ISY to see what node servers have been installed.  I believe this happens about every 5 minutes.  This means that deleting a node server from one instance of Polyglot, won't instantly update other instances of Polyglot, it can take up to 5 minutes before the deletion is seen by the other instance.