Adding ZOOZ ZEN17 challenges

[johnnyt]

11 minutes ago, oskrypuch said:

Take the Zen17 OFF the UPS power.

As you have it set up, mine works 100%.

* Orest

that would defeat the purpose for which i got the ZEN17 - at least the way I'm using one of the sensors. (I'm using the relays for something else.)

I should point out that when I did the test there was not an actual power failure. So it's not like anything wasn't working the way it would under normal conditions, i.e. any/all zwave neighbors were up, for what that's worth.

 

[Techman]

Being that it's a RF only device the UPS will have no effect on its signal or operation

[oskrypuch]

Yes, it is an RF device, but a power spike could possibly affect it.

I'm reaching here, but not sure why it shouldn't be working.

Taking it to first principles, I would take the Zen17, put it on a regular outlet, and then short and open the sensor input with a pair of alligator clips or a bit of copper wire.

If it doesn't work then, something is not set up correctly, or the unit is sick, the former more likely. If it does work, then there is something about the in-use setup that is causing an issue.

Can also try excluding the Zen17, factory resetting the Zen17, readding it, and then positively setting the only parameters you want changed (again).

* Orest

[brians]

On 5/20/2022 at 1:08 PM, johnnyt said:

@oskrypuch, thanks for the post. It was very helpful.

FYI, there is an updated firmware 1.10 (unit comes with 1.04), which includes a bug fix for an issue when setting param 2/3 to 7 and params 10/11 to disabled, which is exactly what's needed for the desired behavior.

See changelog here: https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/727-zen17-universal-relay-change-log/

I did the upgrade - all is good and am actually also using the new parameters 19/20

updated manual explaining new parameters: https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/698-zen17-universal-relay-advanced-settings/

Nice so I can actually show my garage door is open now correctly. I’ll get the firmware and get later. 

[johnnyt]

17 hours ago, johnnyt said:

 

I use one of the sensors to detect a dry contact feature of my UPS that closes the contact when UPS goes on battery. The contact closing works fine, the ZEN17 detects/reports it and ISY changes the state within a second or two.

However when the UPS goes off battery (back to utility power), the sensor doesn't report it. If I query the device manually, it shows that the dry contact from UPS did re-open.

 

I received a 2nd ZEN17 and used it to test a couple different settings to see if there's a setting that works better for my UPS dry contact feature. I left the relays linked to the sensor so I could hear the changes (relays for the 1st unit are being used so I don't want to start messing with them, not to mention exclude/include process.)

I found the performance/behavior finicky. Some behavior didn't work the first time and some nodes didn't show up until I went through a couple of cycles closing/opening the sensors. I tried param2/3 at 4, 7 and 10. Only 7 worked properly, and it did work 100% fine when I used the 2nd unit with the UPS.

So I did a test again with the unit in "production" and it worked fine today. So I'm thinking these things need to stabilize or something by going though a few cycles. Hopefully this is just an initial stabilization thing but will need to keep and eye and maybe do periodic drills to make sure things do settle and act reliably.

I also found that setting 4 doesn't work properly - sensor never changes as one would have expected. (If not the expectation, then why put sensor nodes?) Same with setting 10, as discovered already on in this post. I reached out Zooz support to ask about this and for an explanation of the behavior for all the settings (stressing that I have the advanced settings "manual" so looking for more than that). 

If they provide something useful, I'll post it here.

 

[oskrypuch]

As I relate upthread my setup experience was a bit flaky as well.

But now " In production", it has been working 100%.

* Orest

[oskrypuch]

@johnnyt

Did you do the whole exclude, link to a dongle on a computer, update OTW, etc. thing, then link back in, to update the firmware?

*Orest

[johnnyt]

2 hours ago, oskrypuch said:

@johnnyt

Did you do the whole exclude, link to a dongle on a computer, update OTW, etc. thing, then link back in, to update the firmware?

*Orest

First thing I did with both devices (after getting the latest firmware from Zooz) was include them on my spare zwave stick to do the firmware update. Then i excluded it from 2nd hub and included it on ISY where I changed param 2/3 then did the exclude/include again on ISY then changed the other params (10/11, 19/20).

I think when I did the latter param changes at the same time as param 2/3, the values didn't stick for them. I'm not sure - only did that once then just decided to do them after the changes to param 2/3 and the required exclude/include from then on.

Something I didn't do between playing with params 2/3 was a factory reset. Didn't seem to need it but then again settings 4 and 10 didn't work as advertised so maybe a factory reset was needed. At this point I'll just wait to see what Zooz support tells me.

[oskrypuch]

@johnnytReport back.

* Orest

[brians]

I just upgraded both my Zen17 to latest firmware and reconfigured on the Polisy.

One of my Zen17 uses input type 10 on both of its inputs. Its purpose is to sense when my septic lift pump runs using an AC sensor. It has been working fine and even after the update - eg. I can short a paperclip to it and turns on/off.

My other Zen17 is for garage door and I decided to try input type 7 this time and I like it better - because it shows door open/closed instead of on/off (when my door was closed it showed on with input type 10, now it properly shows closed).

Here are the instructions I used to set garage opener...

For Garage Door
---------------
Will hook up the switch and the sensor on separate sensor/relays just in case the isolation is not set correctly.

Reset
Include in ISY
Set for Door Open/Close sensor
Set Parameter 2 to 7
Set Parameter 3 to 7
Exclude/Include in ISY
This will add additional nodes for each sensor

Set Parameter 10 to 0
Set Parameter 11 to 0
This isolates the relays being triggered from the inputs

Garage Door Sensor (Sensor 1)
ZW XXX.1 Barrier 1

Garage Door Switch (Relay 2)
ZW XXX.2 Binary Switch

To set simulate momentary 1 second
Parameter 8: auto turn-off timer for Relay 2
Parameter 17: auto turn-off timer unit for Relay 2

Set Parameter 17 to 1 (seconds)
Set Paramter 8 to 1 (1 second) *** must use 4 byte to write

Parameter 20: Reverse the reported values for your selected input on S2 C terminals (select same value as parameter 3 eg. 7)
(not reversed set to 0)

Closed on Sensor 1 will show door closed
Set Parameter 20 to 7 if your door sensor switch is NO when closed.

[brians]

I noticed that when set for input type 7, the new nodes ZW XXX.1 Barrier and ZW XXX.2 Barrier do not update on query from IoP.

The only time they update is when the sensor is physically changed eg. closing/opening the contacts - in my case opening/closing the garage door.

It is supposed to recover state from power failure, but if Polisy also reboots then it seems that IoP will not get updated until the door state is changed - not even with the 3am query program.

On my other Zen17, using the input type 10, query works on the Binary Sensor nodes as intended and the 3am query program picked up the state of my unused Binary Sensor as Off.

Anyone else have this issue?

[oskrypuch]

1 hour ago, brians said:

I noticed that when set for input type 7, the new nodes ZW XXX.1 Barrier and ZW XXX.2 Barrier do not update on query from IoP.

The only time they update is when the sensor is physically changed eg. closing/opening the contacts - in my case opening/closing the garage door.

Use the Window Alarm node instead. Works for me correctly.

* Orest

[brians]

@oskrypuchI see the Window Alarm nodes show on/off and also seem to update on query. I have learned to like the open/close node response instead of on/off though

I am going to power cycle the zen17 on my garage door when I get home and see if it sends signal to ISY on restart. Not a huge deal for me because my program that checks for garage open > 1 hour will not run because it looks specifically for "open"... I suppose there could be some case where power goes out while door is open etc... so maybe I will change program to use the windows alarm node.

 

 

[brians]

I discovered that if I query the respective "Access Control Alarm" then it also queries the Barrier node.

 

[johnnyt]

On 5/22/2022 at 12:22 PM, johnnyt said:

I received a 2nd ZEN17 and used it to test a couple different settings to see if there's a setting that works better for my UPS dry contact feature. I left the relays linked to the sensor so I could hear the changes (relays for the 1st unit are being used so I don't want to start messing with them, not to mention exclude/include process.)

I found the performance/behavior finicky. Some behavior didn't work the first time and some nodes didn't show up until I went through a couple of cycles closing/opening the sensors. I tried param2/3 at 4, 7 and 10. Only 7 worked properly, and it did work 100% fine when I used the 2nd unit with the UPS.

So I did a test again with the unit in "production" and it worked fine today. So I'm thinking these things need to stabilize or something by going though a few cycles. Hopefully this is just an initial stabilization thing but will need to keep and eye and maybe do periodic drills to make sure things do settle and act reliably.

I also found that setting 4 doesn't work properly - sensor never changes as one would have expected. (If not the expectation, then why put sensor nodes?) Same with setting 10, as discovered already on in this post. I reached out Zooz support to ask about this and for an explanation of the behavior for all the settings (stressing that I have the advanced settings "manual" so looking for more than that). 

If they provide something useful, I'll post it here.

 

After a few exchanges with Zooz support, the answer regarding setting params 2/3/ to 4, 7, and 10 is:

 " yes, the setting should behave the same way but will have different wording depending on the setting programmed"

So they're suggesting I check with ISY support regarding settings 4 and 10 not working like 7. I may do that at some point, although as long as one of the settings works and the only difference is the words used in the nodes and status, it's not critical. 

[brians]

I have two and always used 10 with no issues. After upgrading latest firmware I use 7 on my garage opener and both are working fine. 
 

[johnnyt]

So I'm currently working on my 2nd ZEN17 that's not reliably reporting the sensor changes when they happen. Querying it is fine but I need it to trigger properly every time and it sometimes doesn't.

The first one Zooz support agreed with me it was defective. It's on-going discussion right now for second one. I just sent ZooZ the attached list of some of the multiple errors from ISY logs - the worst kind: intermittent ones.

Did I just get 2 bad units? (bought at same time from amazon - thankfully I don't have to fight to return them)

What are other people's experiences with ZEN17 sensors?

ZEN17-Errors-summary.xlsx

[johnnyt]

There's a new firmware that "Fixed reporting behavior after power outage: if parameters 2 or 3 are set to any value, and parameters 10 or11 are set to disabled" this is the setting that unlinks the sensor from the relay

https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/727-zen17-universal-relay-change-log/