cwagner2401 Posted April 30, 2022 Posted April 30, 2022 I have my Aeotec 6 repeater about 50', 2 walls and a floor from the ISY. I added a thermostat but, had to bring the ISY close to the thermostat to include it even though the ISY sees the repeater. Once I put the ISY back in it's place, the thermostat works fine via the repeater. The thermostat doesn't support NWI/NWE. Now I tried to add an Aeotec Smart Switch 7 which does support NWI/NWE and it won't include. I can't find any doc that tells me if the repeater supports NWI/NWE or even if it needs to support it in order for NWI/NWE to work. So the questions are: 1) Does the repeater need to support NWI/NWE and if it does then... 2) Does Aeotec 6 repeater support NWI/NWE Thanks for any insight.
Techman Posted April 30, 2022 Posted April 30, 2022 What is your ISY firmware and UI version? What z-Wave dongle are you using, 300, 500 I've found that the repeater should be about 20 feet from the ISY as the ISY Z-wave dongle doesn't have an external antenna which can reduce the coverage area of the signal. Not sure about the NWI/NWE option. You could send an email to Aeotec support, they are very responsive. Also make sure you have the latest firmware updates for you Z-wave devices.
cwagner2401 Posted April 30, 2022 Author Posted April 30, 2022 Thanks, Techman. Dongle: 500, ISY994i/IR PRO ver 5.3.4, Z-Wave: 6.88 I'll try pinging Aeotec.
cwagner2401 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Posted May 2, 2022 I got a reply from Aeotec. I was hoping they were going to say that the Range Extender 6 didn't support NWI/NWE. But they say it does. I tried including a Smart Switch 7 near the Range Extender 6 but the switch didn't include. The ISY994 didn't report any data from the switch. The ISY994 does see the Range Extender 6. When I bring the Smart Switch 7 close the the ISY994, I did include it and then I brought the switch back near the Range Extender 6 and the ISY994 reports the route to the switch through the range extender and the switch works. Any thoughts? Are we sure that the ISY994 zwave 500 v 6.88 supports NWI/NWE? Sorry to ask again but, I just want to be sure there's no misunderstanding.
cwagner2401 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Posted May 2, 2022 Hi gzahar. yes. It was enabled by default. Thanks.
lilyoyo1 Posted May 2, 2022 Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, cwagner2401 said: I got a reply from Aeotec. I was hoping they were going to say that the Range Extender 6 didn't support NWI/NWE. But they say it does. I tried including a Smart Switch 7 near the Range Extender 6 but the switch didn't include. The ISY994 didn't report any data from the switch. The ISY994 does see the Range Extender 6. When I bring the Smart Switch 7 close the the ISY994, I did include it and then I brought the switch back near the Range Extender 6 and the ISY994 reports the route to the switch through the range extender and the switch works. Any thoughts? Are we sure that the ISY994 zwave 500 v 6.88 supports NWI/NWE? Sorry to ask again but, I just want to be sure there's no misunderstanding. It's supported. NWI isn't a catch all. Your network starting point is poor which may be part of the issue. As you build your network out, things will get better. The idea is to start closest and move your way out. You're already starting waaay out. Edited May 2, 2022 by lilyoyo1
cwagner2401 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Posted May 2, 2022 Hi lilyoyo1 Can you tell me if NWI behaves differently from normal control transmissions? I ask because the switch and thermostat that communicate through the Range Extender are working fine. Thanks!
lilyoyo1 Posted May 2, 2022 Posted May 2, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, cwagner2401 said: Hi lilyoyo1 Can you tell me if NWI behaves differently from normal control transmissions? I ask because the switch and thermostat that communicate through the Range Extender are working fine. Thanks! Yes which is why I provided the information above as well as the information in the tips and tricks Edited May 2, 2022 by lilyoyo1
cwagner2401 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Posted May 2, 2022 got it. I missed the tips and tricks though. Can you give me a link? Thanks again.
lilyoyo1 Posted May 2, 2022 Posted May 2, 2022 1 hour ago, cwagner2401 said: Perfect. Thank you! The very first post of this sub forum also has a link
cwagner2401 Posted May 3, 2022 Author Posted May 3, 2022 As an FYI - Aeotec told me that both the Range Extender 6 and 7 support NWI but neither one supports NWE. The technician couldn't tell me why but, it's good to be aware.
lilyoyo1 Posted May 3, 2022 Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, cwagner2401 said: As an FYI - Aeotec told me that both the Range Extender 6 and 7 support NWI but neither one supports NWE. The technician couldn't tell me why but, it's good to be aware. It doesn't really matter. The strength and ability to use either comes from having a strong network via multiple devices vs 1 singular device. If/when you build out your network properly, you'll see a difference Edited May 3, 2022 by lilyoyo1
PatPend Posted May 4, 2022 Posted May 4, 2022 On 4/30/2022 at 2:44 PM, cwagner2401 said: The thermostat doesn't support NWI/NWE. If your thermostat doesn't support NWI/NWE it's a Zwave Classic device. Your Zwave network will fall back to Zwave Classic mode and NWI/NWE won't work, even though your other devices and dongle are ZWave Plus.
cwagner2401 Posted May 4, 2022 Author Posted May 4, 2022 Hi PatPend Yeah, I'm aware of that. The devices I'm concerned with re: NWI and NWE are the Aeotec Range Extenders 6 & 7 as well as the Aeotec Smart Switch 7. What Aeotec has told me is that they all support NWI but, none support NWE. The scenario I have is that my ISY994 (5.3.4) with 500 zwave module(6.88) is 30 feet and two walls from the range extender. The thermostat is 5 feet from the Range extender and it's route through the extender is working fine. The aeotec Smart Switch is 15 feet from the range extender. The issue is that although the thermostat is working fine routed through the extender, NWI isn't working from the smart switch through the range extender to the 994. Thanks!
lilyoyo1 Posted May 4, 2022 Posted May 4, 2022 1 hour ago, cwagner2401 said: Hi PatPend Yeah, I'm aware of that. The devices I'm concerned with re: NWI and NWE are the Aeotec Range Extenders 6 & 7 as well as the Aeotec Smart Switch 7. What Aeotec has told me is that they all support NWI but, none support NWE. The scenario I have is that my ISY994 (5.3.4) with 500 zwave module(6.88) is 30 feet and two walls from the range extender. The thermostat is 5 feet from the Range extender and it's route through the extender is working fine. The aeotec Smart Switch is 15 feet from the range extender. The issue is that although the thermostat is working fine routed through the extender, NWI isn't working from the smart switch through the range extender to the 994. Thanks! It's not working because of your setup.
cwagner2401 Posted May 4, 2022 Author Posted May 4, 2022 I don't quite understand that generalization. I'm a 40-yr EE and software engineer - if you or anyone want to talk deeper level of detail as to the mechanics of why my setup is causing the failure I'd really welcome that. I'm afraid I'm failing to grasp why when the extender is apparently working flawlessly routing data that NWi is not working, Thanks!
lilyoyo1 Posted May 4, 2022 Posted May 4, 2022 1 hour ago, cwagner2401 said: I don't quite understand that generalization. I'm a 40-yr EE and software engineer - if you or anyone want to talk deeper level of detail as to the mechanics of why my setup is causing the failure I'd really welcome that. I'm afraid I'm failing to grasp why when the extender is apparently working flawlessly routing data that NWi is not working, Thanks! There's a ton of information on how nwi and zwave works if you Google it. Since you're an EE, there's also developer information that you'll find on silicon labs website.
cwagner2401 Posted May 4, 2022 Author Posted May 4, 2022 yep. thanks. I've been reading. Just hopeful that someone might be able to short cut my reading with some nuggets in my context
cwagner2401 Posted May 7, 2022 Author Posted May 7, 2022 UPDATE: I was able to get the Aeotec Smart Switch 7 to include via NWI (yay). It worked after adding an Aeotec Range Extender 7 to the network. DETAILS: The original network where NWI didn't work (even though the thermostat located next to the RE6 is working fine routed via the RE6): ISY----30'+3walls----Range Extender 6----15'+0walls----Smart Switch 7(NWI failed to even start) ---- 4'+0walls----Trane TZ45 T-stat(working fine but, was not included via NWI) =================================================================== The network where NWI worked: ISY---35'+2walls----Range Extender 7----25'+1wall-----Smart Switch 7(NWI worked fine) ISY----30'+3walls----Range Extender 6 ---- 4'+0walls----Trane TZ45 T-stat(working fine but, was not included via NWI) =================================================================== CONCLUSION: Once the RE7 was in the network, the SS7 immediately started the NWI include process. It appears to me from the results of this testing that even though the technician at Aeotec told me that the RE6 supports NWI, it apparently does not. NOTE: I didn't try NWE because the Aeotec technician told me that neither the RE6 nor RE7 support NWE My thanks to lilyoyo1, Techman, gzahar and PatPend for contributing to my learning. 1
johnnyt Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 On 5/4/2022 at 2:03 PM, lilyoyo1 said: There's a ton of information on how nwi and zwave works if you Google it. What search are you doing because I'm not finding much info. Searches for "zwave NWE/NWI" and variations of that brings up this thread and the UDI wiki, which doesn't explain it - or at least not the page I found. What does it do? Should I just leave it on (it defaults to off) or could it cause grief to do that?
Techman Posted June 10, 2022 Posted June 10, 2022 NWI = Network wide inclusion NWE = Network wide exclusion Most devices support NWI, I'm not aware of any that support NWE Here's a link that explains it: Adding and Removing Z-Wave Devices – Z-Wave Outlet (zwaveoutlet.com)
oskrypuch Posted June 10, 2022 Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Techman said: Most devices support NWI, I'm not aware of any that support NWE Really? Interesting. But, from your link .. Quote Exclusion Mode can be used the three same ways that the Inclusion Mode uses. (low power, full power, Network Wide). Typically if you are having trouble adding a device we will have you Exclude and Include two or three times which tends to solve the problem. * Orest Edited June 10, 2022 by oskrypuch
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