Intermittent Insteon Issues after upgrading ISY994i to v5.3.4

[AndrewW]

Hi,

I've had an ISY994i Pro that has worked very reliably with my Insteon setup since 2013 (!), on version 4.x Firmware. Most of our light switches in the house are Insteon, and I have a handful of fairly simple programs to turn lights on/off on schedules. It's been rock-solid, with no communication or other issues for many years.

After the Insteon servers shut down a couple months ago, I purchased the Portal Module and upgraded my ISY to v5.3.4 so that I could use the Amazon Echo functionality.  Since then, I've been having intermittent issues with commands working sometimes but not others. Only about a ~third of all Insteon commands seem to "get through."  It seems to be random whether it works or not on any given command.

I can also say "Alexa, turn on the bathroom lights" and it'll respond "Ok" but then only sometimes will the lights turn on.

Since the upgrade, we've also had three or four instances where there's a random "All On" command sent to everything (including opening our garage door while we were out of town! gulp.)...and all devices actually seems to respond to that when it happens. I think, but don't remember for sure, that this has happened only in the evenings (possibly when we have some programs to turn lights on each day, but not sure).

I know random "All On" commands can be a sign of a failing PLM, but all these troubles all started with the firmware upgrade, so if it's a failing PLM that would be quite a coincidence.

Would it be a good idea to factory reset the PLM and attempt a restore?  (If so, I'm unclear on exactly how to do that - the instructions here seem to assume changing to a new PLM.)

Or are there other troubleshooting/resetting steps I should try?

Very much appreciate any suggestions... Thanks! ?

[AndrewW]

Ok, so after I posted this I realized I could try resetting all devices:
https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:File_Menu#Restore_Devices

I have the Event Viewer window open and, near the start of the process, it tried to reset the PLM and then said it could not reset the PLM:

It's now proceeding through all the devices and I've gotten a number of popups saying that it "Cannot communicate with X device. Please check connections".   Considering I've never had any communication issues in the past (and I haven't made any physical changes at all), this seems quite odd.

It just finished after about 30 minutes, and although there was lots of traffic in the event viewer, it seems that none of my devices were successfully updated:

I saved the event viewer log - happy to share if that might be helpful?

 

[Techman]

Were you using the Insteon Hub and the ISY to control the same devices? The shutdown of the Insteon server had no effect on the ISY or any devices controlled by the ISY

If you reset the PLM then you deleted all its link tables so the ISY will be unable to communicate with the devices.

If in fact you reset the PLM, then do a factory reset on the PLM then a restore PLM from the ISY. This assumes that all of your devices were controlled by the ISY, the restore PLM will write the link tables stored in the ISY back to the PLM

How old is your PLM, as the older PLMs are prone to fail. 

[MrBill]

27 minutes ago, Techman said:

Were you using the Insteon Hub and the ISY to control the same devices?

That's how I read it....

[AndrewW]

Hi @Techman, thanks for jumping in here. (A couple of other folks chimed in over the weekend, but I guess there was a forum crash and those got lost? Finally able to get back on to reply!)

I had used the Insteon Hub to integrate with Amazon Echo - that's basically it.  All my other programming was done through the ISY. When Insteon died, I learned that ISY could now integrate with Alexa, so I upgraded it to be able to use that instead.

So the only physical change to my system was that I had unplugged the Insteon Hub (since it was useless). This weekend I plugged it back in, but that hasn't made any improvement.

My PLM is a 2413S v2.2 1629.  I have unplugged it and plugged it back in, but have not done a factory reset on it.

I know it's common for old PLMs to start failing, but since it was working perfectly before upgrading to 5.x I'm skeptical that this is the actual issue. (I'd buy a new PLM just to be sure, but of course that's not an option at the moment...)

Some of the switches are 8+ years old, however, (1) I've never had this "All On" issue before, and (2) All Insteon switches (and the mini-remote) are communicating just fine with each other. The only communication issues are when the ISY tries to trigger something.

Not sure if this helps, but:

If I view a specific device in the ISY control panel, with the Event Viewer open, and then click "On" or "Off" and the device does not respond, I will see only one logged entry, like so:

If the device actually responds, the log entry will look like this:

Seems like the next steps are probably to reset some devices and try rebuilding links?  I'm unclear on the best way to do that -- I find the UD docs quite confusing and I don't want to go out of order and make anything worse!

Thanks again!

Edited July 11, 2022 by AndrewW

[Techman]

@AndrewW

Try doing a restore device to one of the problem devices. That will rewrite the link tables stored in the ISY to the device.

The red exclamation point to the left of the device means that the PLM is unable to communicate with that device

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Techman

[AndrewW]

I did try to restore devices and it ultimately failed.  Now my ISY is showing all of the devices have pending updates with the "1011" icon:

So I just right-clicked on "Kitchen Sink" and selected "Restore Device."... and this is all that happened: 

So then I did a "Write Updates to Device"... It popped open the status window and ran a bunch of commands -- and then when it got to about 99% it gave me a "Cannot communicate..." error again.

 

[AndrewW]

Oh, hey, just tried it again and it worked!  Not sure if that's just because I got lucky and one of the intermittent failures didn't happen?

Here's the activity log in case it's useful?

Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:32 PM : [  13 5B 50 1] Preparing Device 'Kitchen Sink' for Restore
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:32 PM : [  13 5B 50 1] Device 'Kitchen Sink' ready for Full Restore
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:39 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 0D 00
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:39 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:39 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 0D 01           (01)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:39 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:39 PM : [13 5B 50 0  ] Calibrating engine version
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:39 PM : [13 5B 50 0  ] May not fully support i2, reverting to i1
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:40 PM : [13 5B 50 1  ] Link    0 : 0FF8 [A200436F72FF1F01] Writing [A200436F72FF1F01]
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:40 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:40 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:40 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:40 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:40 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F8
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:40 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F8 06          PEEK   (F8)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:41 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B A2    PEEK   (A2)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:41 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:41 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:41 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:41 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:41 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:41 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F9
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:41 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F9 06          PEEK   (F9)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:42 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 00    PEEK   (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:42 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:42 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:42 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:42 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:42 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:42 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B FA
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:42 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B FA 06          PEEK   (FA)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:43 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 43    PEEK   (43)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:43 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:43 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:43 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:43 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:43 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:43 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B FB
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:43 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B FB 06          PEEK   (FB)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:44 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 6F    PEEK   (6F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:44 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:44 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:44 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:44 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:44 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:44 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B FC
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:44 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B FC 06          PEEK   (FC)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:45 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 72    PEEK   (72)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:45 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:45 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:45 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:45 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:45 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:45 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B FD
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:45 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B FD 06          PEEK   (FD)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:46 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B FF    PEEK   (FF)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:46 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:46 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:46 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:46 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:46 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:46 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B FE
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:46 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B FE 06          PEEK   (FE)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:47 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 1F    PEEK   (1F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:47 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:47 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:47 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:47 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:47 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:47 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B FF
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:47 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B FF 06          PEEK   (FF)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:48 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 01    PEEK   (01)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:48 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:48 PM : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 40 E2 00 13 5B 50 01 01 37 15 
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:48 PM : [PLM         ] Group   0 : Writing Controller Link matching [13 5B 50 1  ] Link    0 : 0FF8 [A200436F72FF1F01]
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:48 PM : [13 5B 50 1  ] Link    1 : 0FF0 [A21F436F72FF1F01] Writing [A21F436F72FF1F01]
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:48 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:48 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 28 0F 50 06          PING   (50)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:57 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:57 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.0F.28 0F 0F 50 06          PING   (50)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:36:57 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.0F.28 0F 0F 50 06          PING   (50):  Duplicate or ACK for a different device 
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:06 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:06 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:06 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:06 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:06 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F0
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:06 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F0 06          PEEK   (F0)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:07 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B A2    PEEK   (A2)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:07 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:07 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:07 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:07 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:07 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:07 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F1
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:07 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F1 06          PEEK   (F1)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:08 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 1F    PEEK   (1F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:08 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:08 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:08 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:08 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:08 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:08 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:08 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F2 06          PEEK   (F2)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:09 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 43    PEEK   (43)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:09 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:09 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:09 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:09 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:09 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:09 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F3
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:09 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F3 06          PEEK   (F3)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:10 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 6F    PEEK   (6F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:10 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:10 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:10 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:10 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:10 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:10 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F4
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:10 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F4 06          PEEK   (F4)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:11 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 72    PEEK   (72)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:11 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:11 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:11 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:11 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:11 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:11 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F5
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:11 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F5 06          PEEK   (F5)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:12 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B FF    PEEK   (FF)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:12 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:12 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:12 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:12 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:12 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:12 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F6
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:12 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F6 06          PEEK   (F6)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:13 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 1F    PEEK   (1F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:13 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:13 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:13 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:13 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:13 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:13 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B F7
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:13 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B F7 06          PEEK   (F7)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:14 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 01    PEEK   (01)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:14 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:14 PM : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 40 E2 1F 13 5B 50 01 01 37 15 
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:14 PM : [PLM         ] Group  31 : Writing Controller Link matching [13 5B 50 1  ] Link    1 : 0FF0 [A21F436F72FF1F01]
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:14 PM : [13 5B 50 1  ] Link    2 : 0FE8 [E201436F72FF0001] Writing [E201436F72FF0001]
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:14 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:14 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:15 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:15 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:15 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B E8
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:15 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B E8 06          PEEK   (E8)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:15 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B E2    PEEK   (E2)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:15 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:15 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:15 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:16 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:16 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:16 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B E9
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:16 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B E9 06          PEEK   (E9)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:16 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 01    PEEK   (01)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:16 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:16 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:16 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:17 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:17 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:17 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B EA
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:17 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B EA 06          PEEK   (EA)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:17 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 43    PEEK   (43)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:17 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:17 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:17 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:18 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:18 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:18 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B EB
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:18 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B EB 06          PEEK   (EB)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:18 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 6F    PEEK   (6F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:18 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:18 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:18 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:19 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:19 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:19 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B EC
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:19 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B EC 06          PEEK   (EC)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:19 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 72    PEEK   (72)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:19 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:19 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:19 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:20 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:20 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:20 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B ED
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:20 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B ED 06          PEEK   (ED)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:20 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B FF    PEEK   (FF)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:20 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:20 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:20 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:21 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:21 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:21 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B EE
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:21 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B EE 06          PEEK   (EE)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:22 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 00    PEEK   (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:22 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:22 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:22 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:22 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:22 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:22 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B EF
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:22 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B EF 06          PEEK   (EF)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:23 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 01    PEEK   (01)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:23 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:23 PM : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 41 A2 01 13 5B 50 01 01 37 15 
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:23 PM : [PLM         ] Group   1 : Writing Responder Link matching [13 5B 50 1  ] Link    2 : 0FE8 [E201436F72FF0001]
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:23 PM : [13 5B 50 1  ] Link    3 : 0FE0 [0000000000000000] Writing [00..............]
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:23 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:23 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:24 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:24 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:25 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B E0
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:25 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B E0 06          PEEK   (E0)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:25 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B A2    PEEK   (A2)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:25 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:25 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 29 00
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:25 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 29 00 06          POKE   (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:25 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 29 00    POKE   (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:25 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:26 PM : [13 5B 50 1  ] Link    4 : 0FD8 : Writing High Water Byte
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:26 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 28 0F
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:26 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:27 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 28 0F    SET-MSB(0F)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:27 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:27 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 0F 2B D8
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:27 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 0F 2B D8 06          PEEK   (D8)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:27 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2B 2B 00    PEEK   (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:27 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:27 PM : [13 5B 50 1  ] Memory : Write dbAddr=0x0032 [FE] cmd1=0x2E cmd2=0x00
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:27 PM : [INST-TX-I2  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 1F 2E 00 01 06 FE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CD
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:27 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 1F 2E 00 01 06 FE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CD 06        (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:28 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2F 2E 00           (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:28 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:28 PM : [13 5B 50 1  ] Memory : Write dbAddr=0x0021 [1C] cmd1=0x2E cmd2=0x00
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:28 PM : [INST-TX-I2  ] 02 62 13 5B 50 1F 2E 00 01 05 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B0
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:28 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 13.5B.50 1F 2E 00 01 05 1C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B0 06        (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:29 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 13.5B.50 43.6F.72 2F 2E 00           (00)
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:29 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 13.5B.50-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:29 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [13 5B 50 1] [ERR] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Mon 07/11/2022 02:37:29 PM : [  13 5B 50 1]      ERR   0

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by AndrewW
formatted log better

[Techman]

Battery operated devices must be put in the linking mode before you can write to them

Is the green led on the PLM lit?

[AndrewW]

I turned off automatic updates to battery devices. The kitchen sink and kitchen ceiling, which I've been working on above, are both hardwired dimmers.

The light on the PLM is solid green, yep.

[Techman]

Your other option is to do a factory reset on the PLM, then a restore PLM.

You can also first try rebooting the ISY.

Have you recently added any new electrical devices on the same circuit as the PLM that might be interfering with the Insteon signal?

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Techman

[AndrewW]

No new electrical devices... can't think of any recent changes that might interfere with the Insteon signal (and, devices can communicate directly with each other without any issues).

I've rebooted the ISY and PLM a couple of times, but can certainly try again!

If I'm going to factory reset the PLM and then restore it, are there any pitfalls to watch out for? The instructions here seem to pertain to replacing a PLM with a new one, rather than a factory reset and then restoring the same hardware. ... so I just want to be sure this won't make anything worse!

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:File_Menu#Replace_Modem_.28PLM.29

Thanks again!

 

[Geddy]

@AndrewW yeah, looks like my reply was one that got eaten in the forum issue. That's okay. Looks like you've got things taken care of. 

The biggest issue is that you went from Insteon Hub to ISY/PLM and the links on the devices are still looking for the Hub rather than the PLM. I try not to ever suggest factory resetting the PLM, but rather factory reset the device itself. It's a pain if you have a lot of devices, but it's the simple way to get rid of any ghost links or half links. 

You said you got things to work earlier. Are you still having problems that you're thinking you will reset the PLM? 

Also, @Techman is suggesting line noise when he comments about new electrical devices. Sadly, OLD devices can suddenly cause noise too. It's been shown that something as simple as an old phone charger can suddenly introduce line noise in the system and you wouldn't even expect it. So it's not just considering NEW devices, but it could be something OLD causing noise. 

But, I think your biggest issue is that you had some (perhaps a lot of) devices that weren't linked to the PLM and now you're just expecting it to work through the Portal+PLM+ISY994. You need to reset the devices and properly add them to the ISY+PLM rather than just randomly resetting the PLM. The PLM doesn't know the devices even exist. Resetting it won't fix that.

 

[AndrewW]

Thanks @Geddy.  I was able to "restore" one specific device, but I think I just got lucky. I tried restoring another device (twice) and could not get the restoration process to complete successfully.

I've since plugged the Insteon Hub back into the wall, so my hardware setup is now exactly the same as it was before I upgraded the ISY to 5.3.4.

And to be clear, the links on devices themselves are working just fine -- all my KeypadLincs, for example, talk to other switches just as reliably as before.  So there are no communication hiccups or glitches when it's from device-to-device. The problems are only when the ISY tries to communicate (via the PLM) to devices.

So... I'm confused as to why the Hub would be an issue?

[AndrewW]

Quote

 you had some (perhaps a lot of) devices that weren't linked to the PLM

I don't think that's the case?  I think everything was actually linked to the PLM.  How can I verify this?
 

[Geddy]

4 minutes ago, AndrewW said:

I'm confused as to why the Hub would be an issue?

I've never had a hub so don't know for certain, but I've always read and understood that you can't have more than 1 controller involved. The hub seems to handle things directly with the Insteon devices. Whereas the ISY relies on the PLM to communicate to the Insteon devices. 

Somebody that knows more about the hub and/or the PLM will need to chime in. It's just always been my understanding that if you wen from something like the hub to the ISY+PLM that you should factory reset the Insteon device you're trying to link to the ISY. Otherwise old links might remain in the device and cause issues with the ISY+PLM. And to me, that's what your explaining. Intermittent issues make me think some devices are talking to the PLM, but others aren't. 

7 minutes ago, AndrewW said:

I think everything was actually linked to the PLM.  How can I verify this?

Not sure if it was this thread or another thread talking about checking the links (and @MrBill always has a great point about how this can be wildly inconsistent and inaccurate if not done properly). 

I think the quick way would be to unplug the Hub again. Open Admin Console and Event Viewer (set to level 3)

Operate a device in the Admin console and see that it has a line for ISY/PLM with "ACK" in it.

Mon 07/11/2022 07:00:29 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 46.09.60-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

How did you originally set things up? (which came first? The ISY/PLM or Insteon Hub?)

How did you setup the devices when you attached them to the ISY? Did you factory reset them or just link them in Admin Console?

I think you're suffering from half links. Especially when the hub isn't operating in your situation.

Again, as best I can figure (from a few years of reading other posts)...it's difficult (I'd almost suggest impossible) to have two controllers properly controlling an Insteon installation. Something is bound to be messed up...you just didn't know it until you had to go without the Hub. 

Proof is that when the hub came back online and you put it back in place...everything "worked". Without it...stuff didn't work. Those devices aren't setup properly with the ISY. (more than likely!)

 

[AndrewW]

1 minute ago, Geddy said:

Proof is that when the hub came back online and you put it back in place...everything "worked". Without it...stuff didn't work. Those devices aren't setup properly with the ISY. (more than likely!)

Oh, no, that's not the case. The hub is currently plugged in and things are still not working properly. It's just that I was able to complete the "restore" process on one device successfully, once... but with intermittent signals/responses I think that was actually more of a lucky fluke than anything else. ?

When I am in the ISY interface and view details for one of my devices, and then click "On" or "Off", sometimes it works but only about 25% of the time. Other times I can see the ISY sends the command and nothing happens.

As far as I know, the Hub didn't actually "do" anything with linking and the ISY.

Quote

How did you setup the devices when you attached them to the ISY? Did you factory reset them or just link them in Admin Console?

It's been many years so I don't recall for sure. I don't think I factory reset them though, I probably just linked them in the Admin console.

 

Quote

 

Not sure if it was this thread or another thread talking about checking the links (and @MrBill always has a great point about how this can be wildly inconsistent and inaccurate if not done properly). 

I think the quick way would be to unplug the Hub again. Open Admin Console and Event Viewer (set to level 3)

Operate a device in the Admin console and see that it has a line for ISY/PLM with "ACK" in it.

 

Ah, yes, we did do a link count (also eaten by the forum). Got a consistent 141 links on each of three runs. ?‍♂️

I just unplugged the Hub, and then successfully turned the Kitchen lights on via the "On" button on the ISY Admin panel. Here's the event log for that one action:

I then clicked "Off" and it didn't work, and this is the only thing in the log:

I then kept trying (and also tried a "Fast Off")...and after a number of additional tries they actually turned off:

I did just recall, that I had to replace my PLM a few years ago. At the time, I think I followed the procedure for the "Restore PLM"... and I vaguely remember some notice about the ideal way to do it was to factory reset every device as well, and I didn't want to go down that road (I have quite a few!).

So maybe there are old/dead links to my old/dead PLM that's no longer around? I don't know why that would suddenly be an issue after upgrading to 5.x but maybe there's something to that?

Or, maybe my PLM really is just on the fritz and it's a dumb coincidence? ?

[AndrewW]

Just to confirm the links tables, I did a "Show PLM Links Table" again and got 141 links (same as before):

I then tried doing a "Show Device Links Table" for the Kitchen Ceiling dimmer and it went through for a bit and then failed... maybe this error is informative?

I tried doing another "Restore" for the Kitchen Ceiling dimmer and it choked again:

However I've been able to get a couple of other devices to complete the "Restore" process successfully... Though I don't think that's likely to actually help.

I also then tried to get the Device Links Table to compare to what the ISY has on file, and I was able to read some devices, but not others.

 

I would think that if this was an issue with "dead" or "orphaned" links I shouldn't be seeing these kinds of communication issues?

[Geddy]

On 7/11/2022 at 6:49 PM, AndrewW said:

So there are no communication hiccups or glitches when it's from device-to-device. The problems are only when the ISY tries to communicate (via the PLM) to devices.

So... I'm confused as to why the Hub would be an issue?

How are things running? Did you attempt any other settings adjustment since Monday? Hadn't seen any other posts so figured you had given up or gone a different route for help.

 

The above portion of an earlier posts gives me some concern...I'm hoping that it's just how you're trying to describe things, but wondered if it's also the setup of your system too.

Did you eve direct link devices? device specific scenes rather than setup through ISY? I think this was done a lot by Insteon Hub users "back in the day". And I think somehow the Hub could manage that or it just worked for them. When you're in the ISY/PLM method that's not advised. So when you said "device-to-device" it made me think that you've got device based links. 

If you haven't done anything I think it's time for you to open a support ticket and see if they can help you out. 

One final advise I would give is to check you Java settings and see if you have it set for higher memory usage. 

Quote

Java runtime memory (when Admin Console is very slow to respond)

-      If the admin console is slow to respond, it is likely you need to increase the amount of memory allocated to the Java runtime (JRE).

-      Open the Java Control Panel, select Java tab, press View button, then add or modify the Runtime Parameter -Xmx to the following:

o   -Xmx512m

-      Press Ok to close the window, then Press Apply to save the changes

The 512 can also be changed to 1024 if you're on a system that has a lot of system memory. That "might" help some, but not sure. It's another tool in troubleshooting to attempt to resolve admin console issues.

 

However, you can start a ticket either way below:

Submit a Ticket:       https://www.universal-devices.com/my-tickets
Email:                        support@universal-devices.com

Good luck! Post back what fixes this so it can possibly help others that might run into this issue. 

 

[AndrewW]

Hi Geddy, thanks for following up. 

Quote

How are things running? Did you attempt any other settings adjustment since Monday? Hadn't seen any other posts so figured you had given up or gone a different route for help.

It's still problematic; I haven't updated here because I ran out of ideas.. ?

We've also started to see some other weirdness when programs run -- which is making me think that the PLM may actually be on its way out.  Last night, at 9:49pm a program correctly ran on the ISY that should have turned off a single dimmer.  Instead, all but one one dimmer in the house turned off (there were at least 3 or 4 that were on at the time, and should not have changed). Definitely not normal!

Quote

Did you eve direct link devices? device specific scenes rather than setup through ISY? I think this was done a lot by Insteon Hub users "back in the day". And I think somehow the Hub could manage that or it just worked for them. When you're in the ISY/PLM method that's not advised. So when you said "device-to-device" it made me think that you've got device based links. 

Yes, I set up all my devices long before I had the ISY, using the old-school manual device-to-device linking method.  But, that has all worked just fine for like 9+ years.

And now, devices that are linked directly still work and communicate perfectly with each other.  It's only ISY/PLM <--> Insteon communication where there are issues.

Quote

One final advise I would give is to check you Java settings and see if you have it set for higher memory usage. 

Did that shortly after upgrading. I did have some problems after the upgrade, because I was using version 4.x of the admin console without realizing there was a new launcher.  So I had the 4.x admin console and the 5.3.4 firmware... and things were running really poorly or not loading.

I also had accessed the admin console with an https:// URL and it was super-super-slow. 

Once I changed to the new launcher, and used an http:// URL, the admin interface worked just fine... but while troubleshooting that, I did increase the Java memory.

But may be my admin mismatch caused some issues with the ISY?

Quote

If you haven't done anything I think it's time for you to open a support ticket and see if they can help you out. 

Yep, I agree, and will do. I think at this point I need to figure out if the PLM is dying, as the erratic behavior is starting to make me think that's sadly maybe the case.  Hoping the new Insteon owners can get production of new units up and running soon!  (Or maybe I'll have this person refurb mine?)

I also wonder if I should try rolling back the ISY to version 4.x (if that's even possible?) and/or doing the full reset on the PLM?  But I'll see what support suggestions.

Thanks again - I'll definitely post back here if I have any updates.

[Geddy]

44 minutes ago, AndrewW said:

Yes, I set up all my devices long before I had the ISY, using the old-school manual device-to-device linking method.  But, that has all worked just fine for like 9+ years.

And now, devices that are linked directly still work and communicate perfectly with each other.  It's only ISY/PLM <--> Insteon communication where there are issues.

THERE'S YOUR ISSUE! Bingo! You've got devices that the ISY/PLM don't know are connected/related. Even if the device is somehow connected to the PLM correctly it's still got direct links in there that don't feed back to the ISY/PLM. These are the half links people often mention. 

It's worked "fine" for the last 9 years because the Insteon Hub didn't care about it and you used the system with a hub and direct links and it worked as you designed it. When you went 100% ISY/PLM you need to set your system up as a NEW system. This means removing any direct links and links to the hub. 

You should run a Network Topology report and see what devices are actually connected to ISY/PLM and if there are some odd issues in there. 

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Generate_Topology

 

45 minutes ago, AndrewW said:

But may be my admin mismatch caused some issues with the ISY?

No, that's only UI driven. It wouldn't impact any operations of the ISY (mostly anyway). It would just mean you wouldn't see options/programs/scenes correctly if you were running FW 5.x and UI 4.x. As soon as you match FW/UI it should all be better. Especially increasing the Java (as you said you did). Make sure it's still set that way. Sometimes in Java updates it can clear that setting out. It's a little strange as it doesn't always happens, but I know I've set it up on my primary computer I access ISY and every now and then that setting seems to be gone. Not major issue, but I notice a little lag here and there.

51 minutes ago, AndrewW said:

(Or maybe I'll have this person refurb mine?)

Yes, repair might be suggested. Do you happen to have a spare PLM at present or just the one? I know @gadgetfreak sent in two PLM to this person and reported one came back fine. Hadn't heard about the other one, but would have to assume it works. I'm sure if you open a ticket with support they can help direct you to troubleshoot the PLM to get a better idea of if it's bad or dying. 

1 hour ago, AndrewW said:

I also wonder if I should try rolling back the ISY to version 4.x

It's possible, but not your issue so I wouldn't advise it. You're up to 5.x now. Just fix going forward.

I think the only fix for this will be to start fresh, or at least factory reset the trouble devices.

 

[AndrewW]

1 hour ago, Geddy said:

THERE'S YOUR ISSUE! Bingo! You've got devices that the ISY/PLM don't know are connected/related. Even if the device is somehow connected to the PLM correctly it's still got direct links in there that don't feed back to the ISY/PLM. These are the half links people often mention. 

It's worked "fine" for the last 9 years because the Insteon Hub didn't care about it and you used the system with a hub and direct links and it worked as you designed it. When you went 100% ISY/PLM you need to set your system up as a NEW system. This means removing any direct links and links to the hub. 

Buuuuut.... I've plugged the hub back in (and it has a green light) and the issues remain (and are getting worse).  ?

I barely used the hub for anything, too. Really I used it only for Amazon Alexa.  ?‍♂️

[Geddy]

@AndrewW agreed...it's strange, but still...I don't think things were set up correctly from the beginning. They worked as you perceived them to work as you originally set them up. When hub went away you went 100% ISY994/PLM. Did you "change" anything when you did that or did you just remove the hub and hope things worked as they had? 

You added UD ISY Portal for Alexa connection. That's when you started noticing problems. Right?

If you made any changes when you unplugged the hub then you'd have issues when you plug the hub back in because you might have removed the link from the device to the hub. So, did you attempt to re-add any devices to the hub?

Still, run a Topology (for yourself). Make sure the ISY/PLM see all the devices you have. Check specifically any "relationships" for devices you seem to have direct linked. If they don't show up in the ISY as a "relationship" then the ISY doesn't know that relationship exists. 

As I said the other day I never owned the hub so haven't personally tried to have ISY/PLM + HUB to have Alexa support. My devices directly added to ISY/PLM + UD Portal + Alexa Skill (v3) devices work 100% of the time.  If you're confident that they're correctly added to the ISY then perhaps it is a PLM issue and repair would be best option (currently). 

Good luck with a support ticket. I'll be interested in seeing how this turns out. Keep us posted!

 

[AndrewW]

Quote

You added UD ISY Portal for Alexa connection. That's when you started noticing problems. Right?

Yup. I also upgraded from 4.x to 5.x at the same time (since that was necessary for ISY Portal/Alexa).

Thinking back, I hadn't yet unplugged the Hub at that time, and I did find that Alexa was only intermittently able to control devices.  I didn't think much of it until we realized our regular evening programs (turning on a few lights) were not running consistently either (more accurately: I think they were running but not actually getting the lights to turn on).

And then when the new Insteon owners sent out an email saying that the servers were back on, I started to think that maybe the two Alexa skills (one for the hub, one for the ISY) were competing with each other, and that's when I unplugged the Hub.

So, the problems definitely were happening before unplugging the hub the first time.

Anyway -- I've started emailing with Michel, and I will work through whatever he says to do... and will also try running that Topology this weekend and see how it goes.

Thanks again, and hopefully I'll have something new to report soon. Have a great weekend!  

[Geddy]

@AndrewW If you do get the PLM repaired make sure you make a backup before you send it in!