FBoucher Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Hi to all, My setup is as follows: Polisy v5.4.4 Insteon PLM 2413s connected to Polisy via DB9 I've been experimenting different power outages and I noticed that my Polisy doesn't boot when the PLM is powered and connected to the Polisy. If I disconnect the PLM then the Polisy boots fine, but I gets lots of Insteon devices errors. Then if I connect the PLM, the Polisy doesn't see the PLM. I have to soft reboot the Polisy to get it working normally. This behavior doesn't sound right. Any ideas how to fix this ... or do I have a faulty unit? Link to comment
Techman Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Make sure you have the "Insteon support" box checked on the Polisy configuration page. Did you move the PLM over from the ISY? Is the green power LED on the PLM lit and a solid green? Do you have another PLM to DB9 cable you can try? Are you using the one that shipped with the PLM? It's possible that if you've been "experimenting" with power outages you may have corrupted the PLM link table in which case you should do a factory reset on the PLM, then a restore PLM. Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 Hi Techman, Quote Make sure you have the "Insteon support" box checked on the Polisy configuration page. Yes, Insteon support box is checked, otherwise I wouldn't have all my Insteon devices listed on the main page. Quote Did you move the PLM over from the ISY? No, this is a fresh install. After the Insteon servers shutdown, I purchased a Polisy and a PLM from Aartech.ca. Then I performed the user's guide installation process. I have many programs that works as expected. The problem is when there is a power loss. The Polisy doesn't boot on its own. I have to manually perform the following procedure: 1. Have both Polisy and PLM off. 2. Boot Polisy 3. Boot PLM 4. Soft reboot the Polisy from the Configuration page Quote Is the green power LED on the PLM lit and a solid green? Yes, solid green. Quote Do you have another PLM to DB9 cable you can try? Are you using the one that shipped with the PLM? There was no PLM to DB9 cable shipped with the PLM, because I got a certified second hand PLM. I made my own cable with a RJ45-to-DB9 adapter like this one and an ethernet cable. I think the cable works since I see "connected" on the PLM Info/status pop-up. 16 hours ago, Techman said: It's possible that if you've been "experimenting" with power outages you may have corrupted the PLM link table in which case you should do a factory reset on the PLM, then a restore PLM. I don't think so. Once I perform the above procedure, both Polisy and PLM works normally, i.e. Insteon devices get turn on/off according to programming. I haven't use the diagnostic/debug options yet. Could they be usefull to trace where the Polisy hangs during boot? Link to comment
Brian H Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) One point that may or no apply. The PLM only used three connections. Common, RS232 Send and RS232 received. There are other connections on the PLM that should not be connected. RJ45 pin 3 and pin 6 are TTL. If connected to the wrong thing may effect the PLM operation. Are you only connecting the two RS232 signals and Common? Cable in the box. DB9S pin 2 to RJ45 Pin 1, DB9S pin 3 to RJ45 pin 8, DB9S pin 5 to RJ45 pin 7. Edited July 22, 2022 by Brian H Add cable information 1 Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) Hello Brian, Between the RJ45-to-DB9 adapter and the PLM, I use a regular 4 feet cat5 ethernet cable. I confirm only DB9S pins 2, 3 and 5 are connected to RJ45 pins 1, 8 and 7 respectively from the DB9 end to the RJ45 end of the cable. The only difference with the original cable could be the wire size. Could this be a problem? Also, I assume that my Polisy boot sequence is not OK, but maybe I'm wrong. What should be the normal Polisy/PLM boot sequence once the power is restored? I play with three scenarios: 1. PLM stays ON and Polisy goes OFF and back ON. 2. Polisy stays ON and PLM goes OFF and back ON. 3. Both Polisy and PLM go OFF and come back ON about the same time. Of course, if there is a delay for one or the other to come back ON, this scenario could be the same as 1 or 2. In these scenarios, shouldn't the Polisy and PLM boot and synchronize themselves to each other without human intervention? Edited July 22, 2022 by FBoucher Link to comment
MrBill Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 9 hours ago, FBoucher said: The Polisy doesn't boot on its own. I have to manually perform the following procedure: 1. Have both Polisy and PLM off. 2. Boot Polisy 3. Boot PLM 4. Soft reboot the Polisy from the Configuration page Step 2 and 3 need to be reversed. The PLM must be booted before Polisy tries to speak to it. Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) Hello Mr. Bill, That is also my understanding. But if I boot the PLM first, my Polisy hangs/freezes during boot and doesn't complete its boot procedure. Also, since my Polisy is powered by UPS, it's highly possible that the PLM goes OFF and back ON while my Polisy remains ON. When that happens, does the Polisy resynchronizes with the PLM automatically or do I have to intervene manually? Edited July 22, 2022 by FBoucher Link to comment
MrBill Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, FBoucher said: That is also my understanding. But if I boot the PLM first, my Polisy hangs/freezes during boot and doesn't complete its boot procedure. This is abnormal behavior, you should open a ticket with support@universal-devices.com 7 minutes ago, FBoucher said: Also, since my Polisy is powered by UPS, it's highly possible that the PLM goes OFF and back ON while my Polisy remains ON. When that happens, does the Polisy resynchronizes with the PLM automatically or do I have to intervene manually? Many of us do the same. During Polisy boot, Polisy asks PLM for it's Insteon ID and software version, if the PLM becomes unavailable due to power failure an ISY994 never realizes, when power is restored communication happily continues because it's the same PLM... that is specifically the Insteon ID hasn't changed. I assume Polisy is the same but haven't specifically tested that at this point. Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 @FBoucher, When on, can you communicate with INSTEON devices? Also, is Update BIOS grayed out in Configuration tab? With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 Michel, Yes, when both Polisy and PLM are ON and synchronized, then I can communicate with all my Insteon devices. The problem I have is during boot. The "Update BIOS" is not grayed out in Configuration tab. Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 @FBoucher, Thank you. What version of IoP are you on? With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 From the about pop-up: Firmware is 5.4.4 UI is 5.4.4 Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 Well ... my problem is getting worst. In order to test the cable, I unpluged the PLM. Once I confirmed the cable pinout is as per spec, I plugged back the PLM and reconnect it to the Polisy. Now, no matter what I do, the PLM and the Polisy no longer communicate with each other. I have to isolate the problem, starting with confirming the PLM is still in woking order. Can someone please suggest a setup to test the PLM with a computer? Would a PLM factory reset be a valid step? If yes, what should I do to not loose all the Insteon links already setup? Thanks for your help. Link to comment
Brian H Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) Did you turn off both units and then start the PLM first. So when the Polisy started up it found the PLM? A Factory Reset will set everything back to blank state with no links in the link database. I don't have a Polisy so I cant tell you how to back it up. There are two PLM test programs we in the Developers Group got but they need the PLM serial cable, a serial port on the computer. They used the basic HEX commands to do things like software Factory Reset, test for a response from the PLM and dump a link in the link database. If you have to use a USB to Serial Port adapter one only used the lower COM addresses. Edited July 22, 2022 by Brian H Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 Brian, I don't have an original PLM serial cable. I made my own with this pinout: DB9S pin 2 to RJ45 Pin 1, DB9S pin 3 to RJ45 pin 8, DB9S pin 5 to RJ45 pin 7. I have a computer with a serial port, a rarety these days. I tried connecting with an evaluation copy of Docklight, but I'm not sure that I had the correct setup. Can I try your test programs? Link to comment
Brian H Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) The script I used is for the DockLight Scripting. My file is PLM.ptp. I found a way to modify the one of the Smarthome versions. For my use. Running the programs should open DockLight Scripting to the evaluation page. Just click OK as you will be in the limited evaluation mode. If you are using COM1 you should be fine. If you have a different COM port. Tools Project settings and pick your COM port and then OK. Get Version 02 60 should get a reply back. With the 02 60 then the three digit module ID, the category, sub category ID's, firmware version, ending with a 06 ACK if processed properly. Get IM config 02 73 should return a 02 73 00 00 00 06. If the PLM has not been reconfigured. 02 69 First Link in database should return the first link in the PLM. If empty the reply is 02 69 15. Get next link 02 6A will return the next link or a 15 if empty. Look out for the Reset 02 67. It is the command to factory reset the PLM through software PLM.ptp Edited July 23, 2022 by Brian H Link to comment
Brian H Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) If you want the BusyRats PLM test program let me know. It is extremely crude and you manually type in the commands and then send and receive messages from a PLM. Information is in the PLM Developers Guide that can be found in a few locations. The same basic commands used by the DockLight Scripting entries. I tried the DockLight program and it seemed to also run the program fine. So the scripting version may not be a requirement as it didn't complain. The X10 commands should just be sent and a 06 ACK on the message back. I have an X10 module I can test with to see if they also where being sent messages. Edited July 23, 2022 by Brian H Add stuff Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 @Brian H Thanks, I just downloaded it. I'll set my test bench up and try it. I'll let you kmow the results. Link to comment
Brian H Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 OK Will see what you find out. I did a ring out of the cable in the box again. It matches what you posted for your cable. Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 @Brian H Hi, I used the DockLight program and performed basic testing. For 02 60, I got: [TX] 02 60 [RX] 02 60 21 31 48 03 11 9B 06 and for 02 73, I got: [TX] 02 73 [RX] 02 73 80 00 00 06 From what I can tell, the PLM and the cable seems to work fine. My next test will be to monitor the communication between the PLM and the Polisy. I'll put Docklight in Monitoring mode. I'll let you know what I find. Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) @Brian H Here is an example of the message sent on DB9 by the Polisy when I hard reboot (AC Power OFF/ON): 00 60 21 5B D8 5B 34 98 E4 90 20 FF 54 0A 8A 02 82 02 FE F9 8A 20 FD 7F FF F9 FC FF 70 AA 55 FC 14 CC 38 C6 CE E6 FE F6 F6 F6 FE FF F8 FE E2 F6 FE F6 F6 FE F6 F6 F6 E6 F6 F6 FE F6 FE F6 FE F6 E6 F6 FE F6 F6 F6 F6 F6 F0 F6 F0 F6 F6 F6 FB FE FE F6 F6 F0 F6 F6 F6 F6 FE F6 F6 FE FE F6 F6 F6 F6 E6 FE FE F6 F6 F0 F6 F6 F6 F6 F6 FE F6 F6 FE FE F6 F6 F3 F6 F6 F6 E6 F6 F6 F6 F0 F6 FE FE F6 F6 F0 F6 F6 FE F6 FB F6 F6 F6 F6 F6 FE F6 F6 F6 FE FE F6 F6 F6 F6 E6 F6 F6 E0 F6 F6 F6 F6 E6 F6 F6 F6 F6 F6 F6 FE FE FE F6 FE FE F6 F6 E6 F6 FE F6 F6 F0 F6 F6 F6 F6 FE F6 F6 F0 FE FE F6 F6 E6 F6 FF FE F6 F0 E0 FF F6 F6 F6 E6 F6 F6 F6 F6 E6 F6 F6 F6 FF F6 After the end of boot whistle, the Polisy sends this with a pause between each pair 02 60: 02 60 02 60 02 60 Request to which the PLM doesn't respond. I tried multiple hard and soft reboots and got similar results, roughly the same sequence with different values. So, what do you think? Do I have a faulty Polisy? Edited July 24, 2022 by FBoucher Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 I did another test. I plugged in the PLM while not connected to the Polisy. Then I hard reboot the Polisy. When I ear the end of boot whistle, I connect the PLM cable to the Polisy. And voilà, the PLM is now seen by the Polisy. Something is really wrong with the Polisy boot communication sequence. The garbage sent by the Polisy confuses the PLM. @Michel Kohanim Can you please confirm I have a bad Polisy or bad firmware? Link to comment
Brian H Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) The long string does not look too good and maybe confusing or over loading the. PLM The 02 60 is the Polisy checking for a PLM. Three times. The 02 73 get IM Configuration "[RX] 02 73 80 00 00 06". Unchanged PLM is 02 73 00 00 00 06. Indicates the 02 6B Set IM Configuration modified the way the PLM acts. The value of 80 indicates that linking with the Local Set Button on the PLM is disabled. Only the controller connected can do linking and probably is fine. For 02 60, I got: [TX] 02 60 [RX] 02 60 21 31 48 03 11 9B 06. Three digit module ID, 03 category, 11 subcategory, 9B firmware version, 06 ACK command processed and reported correctly. Edited July 24, 2022 by Brian H Link to comment
FBoucher Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 Hello Brian, When I received the PLM, I did a factory reset. I don't recall changing the IM Configuration. So, I have no clue why the PLM has that IM Configuration bit set. I agree the long string doesn't look good. As I mentionned in my last post, I managed to get Polisy and PLM to see each other by skipping the long string. I boot the Polisy and wait for the end of boot whistle to quickly connect the PLM cable to the Polisy. Hopefully, @Michel Kohanim will confirm the status of my Polisy. Link to comment
Brian H Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) Is their a white label on the back of the 2413S? With the hardware revision and date codes? 03 11 is a 2413S PLM. The firmware 9B is not the latest 9E. The only 9B I have in my stash is a hardware 1B. Edited July 24, 2022 by Brian H Link to comment
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