Scene Activation from a KPL

[belias]

I am sure...I'll send you a PM with a video. I'm amazed because it works perfectly...instantaneous response as you'd expect with a simple group command. And the setup is clean - since it's all managed from the ISY.

 

Now, if I could get a KPL that lets me flash an indicator or repeatedly sound the "beep", I'll be truly happy

 

 

 

-Brian

[belias]

Well, after doing some work on various scene settings, etc. I somehow managed to break my miraculous settings that allowed my KPL load to be turned off when a sub-button is switched on. For whatever reason, my ISY now behaves as expected and insists that I program a level > 0% for the KPL load (from a sub-button). I'm not sure how I got it to work the first time from the ISY - I remember the dialog box popping up about "try using a low level instead", but when I dismissed the popup, the KPL-load level remained at zero and it worked.

 

OK - now on to the useful part....I figured out how to replicate this action at the KPL itself (proving that at least I'm not completely crazy...). Here are the steps:

 

1. Start with a factory reset KPL (I'm using v.36, 8-button). The local load and all sub-buttons should be off.

 

2. Tap the set button once (KPL will beep)

 

3. Press and hold a sub-button for 10 seconds (KPL will beep)

 

4. Press and hold "A" (load) button for 10 seconds (KPL will beep)

 

 

Now the local load will turn fully OFF any time the sub-button is turned ON. This is useful in my situation because the local load is ceiling lights, which I want to be completely off when I press "Button G" for the sleep scene.

 

 

Hopefully this is helpful in the next step of (perhaps) getting the ISY to be able to program this action by simply setting the slider all the way to zero - at least for the newer KPL's. Also - if it would be useful - I'm happy to send along a backup that I made from a few days ago when this was setup and working through the ISY (i.e. I was able to set the slider to full zero). Again - no idea what changed between then and now. FW is still the same at 2.7.14RC1.

 

 

-Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for the update and I must say that I feel a lot better (even though things do not work anymore) mostly because I cannot stand unpredictable behavior. Consistency is quite important in code development.

 

What you are describing is precisely how all KPLs have worked since they introduced the load control by sub-button in 2A+ firmware. When we read the memory locations for those that were setup manually, we noticed that the on level used was NOT 0 but a very low on level. That's why we put that dialog box in there. In short, there's only two memory locations that decide what the load should do and they are set properly by ISY.

 

You had this setup using non-toggle buttons. Did you change the non-toggle state?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[belias]

Hi Michel,

 

Sorry for my confusion on this, let me make sure I'm on the same page as you. It sounds like this "local load off with sub-button" problem isn't an issue when the KPL is programmed locally (as I discovered and became momentarily excited...). The problem, then, lies in being able to replicate this programming via the ISY (or by Insteon commands in general)...correct?

 

As far as your question on toggle state - I may have changed it somewhere along the way for testing, but when I realized that my "local load / sub-button" functionality was lost I made sure everything was set as it was orginally (local load toggle, scene sub-buttons set to non-toggle on). Still, the ISY behaves as you would expect, forcing the local load to 1% as the minimum value.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

-Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

The problem is that when you do the manual programming, the KPL does precisely what ISY does: instead of OFF it uses a very low on level.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[belias]

Hmm.....this suggests that programming via the ISY and programming via the KPL buttons should give the same results. But this isn't what I'm seeing.

 

Using the steps from my 4/17 post, I can easily (and reproducibly) make a sub-button turn the load COMPLETELY off (i.e. load and KPL-A indicator completely off). Using the ISY, the closest I can achieve is the low on-level (with the KPL-A indicator still ON).

 

I feel as though I'm missing something very basic here...like you realize that local programming achieves the desired result (local load fully off by sub-button), but at the moment it's just not possible to program this action using the ISY... If I missed that along the way, my apologies for drawing this out...

 

 

Thanks yet again,

 

 

-Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

You are not missing anything and I appreciate your persistence simply because it will make our product better.

 

I did test again with our KPL relay 5 button and it simply does not work even when I do it manually. The memory locations set the same way as ISY and confirm the previous understanding.

 

Do you have 6 button or 8 button KPLs?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[belias]

Hi Michel,

 

Whew! OK...I think the missing link for me was that you're not able to reproduce it even with the manual steps - now I'm on the same page.

 

I am using an 8-button dimmer V.36 KPL (2486DWH8 v. 5.2 on the label). I have a second KPL that's identical (but running in 6-button mode), and a V.2C and a V.2D...so I can't be much help in testing. Perhaps its a difference between the relay and the dimmer models?

 

So, what happens when you assign a very low on-level to the local load when using a relay KPL (I've only used dimmers)? Does it switch the load and indicator off?

 

Lastly...I'm wondering if this is a change that came about with the updated SH firmware allowing units to join a scene in the "OFF" mode. I think that's what I did using the steps from the previous post (but honestly I may have also just stumbled upon a sequence that worked). Just a thought...

 

Thanks again Michel!

 

 

-Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

No, the relay does not turn off.

 

Can you please try the same sequence on your 6 button KPL and let me know if it works. If so, please send me the manual steps you followed.

 

I am not sure what this is related to but the memory locations are precisely the same as what ISY sets them. Perhaps there are some variables that are used internally and we do not know about.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[belias]

Hi Michel,

 

My other v.36 KPL is also an 8-button (2486DWH8), I simply have it programmed to operate in 6-button mode. I have tried the steps to make sure it wasn't just a fluke, and it works on this 2nd KPL - but unfortunately I can't provide any useful information on how a "real" 6-button would operate. Perhaps someone else with a newer 6-button could give it a try?

 

As far as the info. stored in the memory locations - perhaps it would be different if read from a KPL with this "feature" working. Is there a way for me to send you a full "device read" of my KPL with the local-off working? Is that useful?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

-Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

Would you be kind enough to post the procedure you are using to program this behavior manually?

 

Thanks and with kind regards,

Michel

[belias]

Hi Michel,

 

Sure, here you go:

 

 

1. Start with a factory reset KPL (I'm using v.36, 8-button, dimmer).

 

2. Make sure the local load and all sub-buttons are off.

 

3. Tap the set button (clear button at bottom) once (KPL will beep)

 

3. Press and hold a sub-button for 10 seconds (KPL will beep)

 

4. Press and hold "A" (load) button for 10 seconds (KPL will beep)

 

 

Now the local load will turn fully OFF any time the sub-button is turned ON.

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

-Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

I tried your procedure which is equal to the procedure I found on the SmartHome website and still I cannot get the sub button to turn off the load. Factory reset did not help and still the memory locations are equal to what ISY does.

 

There must be something we are missing and I suspect it's KPL firmware related.

 

Would you be kind enough to:

1. Go to Tools | Diagnostics | Show Device Links Table and choose one of the KPLs that work

2. Use 0x02A0 for the Start Address and 0x0252 for the End Address. Click on Save and rename it to OL_RR.belias.xml

 

 

3. Click on Start again, choose your KPL, and this time choose 0x0248 for both Start/End Addresses. Click on Save and rename it to ON.belias.xml

 

4. Click on Start again, choose your KPL, and this time choose 0x0251 for both Start/End Addresses. Click on Save and rename it to OFF.belias.xml

 

Once done, please send me the files to tech@universal-devices.com.

 

Thanks so very much in advance.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi Michel,

 

Sure, here you go:

 

 

1. Start with a factory reset KPL (I'm using v.36, 8-button, dimmer).

 

2. Make sure the local load and all sub-buttons are off.

 

3. Tap the set button (clear button at bottom) once (KPL will beep)

 

3. Press and hold a sub-button for 10 seconds (KPL will beep)

 

4. Press and hold "A" (load) button for 10 seconds (KPL will beep)

 

 

Now the local load will turn fully OFF any time the sub-button is turned ON.

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

-Brian