Motion sensor settings question.

[ingeborgdot]

I have just purchased 2 motion sensors for another location. They both need to be used for one light because I need motion sensing from more angles than one can give me. I will use both of these sensors for another light at a later time but for now both will be running one light.

It has been a long time since I have done this again and was needing some advice. I just want them to turn on the one light and keep it on for about 5 minutes. Nothing fancy at this point. I can't remember what the best steps would be. Would anyone care to give me some help? Thanks.

[oberkc]

It looks like you found the other recent thread on this topic:

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=5286

 

After having found it, do you have additional questions?

[ingeborgdot]

Yeah, what is the best way to program it? Is the program that is used on that page the best way? I don't want the one sensor interfering with the other.

[oberkc]

There are several ways to do this, all perfectly functional. I have found that "best" is often based on other factors, often unrelated to the specific task-at-hand.

 

1. Do you have time constraints? Dusk to dawn? Seasonal?

2. Do you prefer controlling the timing via the ISY or the motion sensor, itself? Is your motion sensor difficult to reach?

3. Does the slight delay of programs versus scenes bother you?

4. Do you have other programs with similar time constraints that can consolidate into folders?

5. What type of motion sensors are you using? Insteon? X-10? Other? How are your sensors configured?

6. What do you want the response to motion to be? Multiple lights? One light?

 

I think it will be up to you to decide what is "best", based on your own needs and desires.

 

Several have offered suggestions on the other post, based on the posted desires. If your desire is to use the ISY to control the on time of your lights, and you have no other specific issues pointing towards a certain approach, you might try something as simple as:

 

if
control "motionsensor1" is switched on
or control "motionsensor2" is switched on

then
turn light on
wait x minutes
turn light off

else

[ingeborgdot]

I don't have anything up to this point.

1. I would like it to work from dusk to dawn.

2. Isn't controlling from the ISY best?

Not familiar with #3.

4. I have a front light with sensor? Not sure what you mean.

5. Insteon. Configured?

6. One light at this time as my other light has no insteon switch to it because it has only two wires. I need to get a neutral run to it so at this time one light.

I don't care how many programs it takes, as long as it works.

Thanks for helping. I feel so inferior when I come on here because my skills at this are very low compared to all of you on here. I have not had time to practice but hopefully will get better at it. Thanks again.

[oberkc]

1. I would like it to work from dusk to dawn.

 

OK. This introduces some issues many have referred to as "boundary conditions". That is, how do you handle the condition where dawn occurs during your "on" time period.

 

Isn't controlling from the ISY best?

 

Maybe. If your needs are simple, scenes could be best. They are quick and, as I understand, more robust.

 

Not familiar with #3.

 

Responses to scenes tend to happen a bit quicker than programs. There is a measurable time that programs take to respond. My estimate is that this is somewhere in the 1-second range, depending on complexity.

 

4. I have a front light with sensor? Not sure what you mean.

 

I have three motion sensor programs and two seasonal (holiday lights) programs that I want to operate between dusk and dawn. I find it convenient ("best") to use a single program folder to constrain each program, rather than putting the condition INTO each program. I assume from your response that this motion sensor is the only program you have that you want to run from dusk to dawn. Given this, it may be "best" to put this constrain directly in the program.

 

5. Insteon. Configured?

 

I don't use insteon sensors (mine are X-10) but I understand that insteon sensors have jumpers that allow one to set certain conditions, such as:

 

- operate all day or only during "dark"

- whether the motion sensor transmits an off signal

- duration of duration of time between sensing of motion

 

There may be others. Bottom line is that how well a program works and what is "best" is contingent on how you want to configure these jumpers.

 

One light at this time as my other light has no insteon switch to it because it has only two wires.

 

If you have only a single light, then you may be fine turning that light on directly from the program. If you have mlultiple lights, it may be "best" to create a scene with the multiple lights as responders and turn the scene on through the program.

 

my skills at this are very low

 

My perception from reading these forums is that programming "skills" are one thing. These can be learned if desired. The harder part is specifically defining what it is that you want to do and expressing this desire in sufficient detail such that those with the programming skill can offer meaningful suggestions.

 

Sub-routine's suggestion on the other thread will work beautifully. Unfortunately, it will not do what you want because you want it only to work from dusk to dawn and he did not appear to know this. Try two programs:

 

if 
from sunset to sunrise (next day)
and
(
control motionsensor1 is turned on
or 
control motionsensor2 is turned on
)

then
run "timer" program (then path)

else

 

timer program:

 

if

then
turn light on
wait x minutes
turn light off

else

 

Good luck and have fun!

[oberkc]

1. I would like it to work from dusk to dawn.

 

OK. This introduces some issues many have referred to as "boundary conditions". That is, how do you handle the condition where dawn occurs during your "on" time period.

 

Isn't controlling from the ISY best?

 

Maybe. If your needs are simple, scenes could be best. They are quick and, as I understand, more robust.

 

Not familiar with #3.

 

Responses to scenes tend to happen a bit quicker than programs. There is a measurable time that programs take to respond. My estimate is that this is somewhere in the 1-second range, depending on complexity.

 

4. I have a front light with sensor? Not sure what you mean.

 

I have three motion sensor programs and two seasonal (holiday lights) programs that I want to operate between dusk and dawn. I find it convenient ("best") to use a single program folder to constrain each program, rather than putting the condition INTO each program. I assume from your response that this motion sensor is the only program you have that you want to run from dusk to dawn. Given this, it may be "best" to put this constrain directly in the program.

 

5. Insteon. Configured?

 

I don't use insteon sensors (mine are X-10) but I understand that insteon sensors have jumpers that allow one to set certain conditions, such as:

 

- operate all day or only during "dark"

- whether the motion sensor transmits an off signal

- duration of duration of time between sensing of motion

 

There may be others. Bottom line is that how well a program works and what is "best" is contingent on how you want to configure these jumpers.

 

One light at this time as my other light has no insteon switch to it because it has only two wires.

 

If you have only a single light, then you may be fine turning that light on directly from the program. If you have mlultiple lights, it may be "best" to create a scene with the multiple lights as responders and turn the scene on through the program.

 

my skills at this are very low

 

My perception from reading these forums is that programming "skills" are one thing. These can be learned if desired. The harder part is specifically defining what it is that you want to do and expressing this desire in sufficient detail such that those with the programming skill can offer meaningful suggestions.

 

Sub-routine's suggestion on the other thread, for example, will work beautifully. Unfortunately, it will not do what you want because you want it only to work from dusk to dawn and he did not appear to know this. Try two programs:

 

if 
from sunset to sunrise (next day)
and
(
control motionsensor1 is turned on
or 
control motionsensor2 is turned on
)

then
run "timer" program (then path)

else

 

timer program:

 

if

then
turn light on
wait x minutes
turn light off

else

 

Good luck and have fun!

[Sub-Routine]

You can put the On program in folder with the dusk to dawn conditions:

 

Folder Conditions for 'Only when Dark'
Add conditions to limit when programs in this folder are allowed to run.



If
       From    Sunset 
       To      Sunrise (next day)

Then
  Allow the programs in this folder to run.

 

Or you can add the Conditions to the On program:

 

If
       From    Sunset 
       To      Sunrise (next day)
   And Control 'Motion Sensor 1' is switched On
    Or Control 'Motion Sensor 2' is switched On

Then
       Set Scene 'Motion' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

but I would not use those Conditions in the Off programs.

 

Rand

[ingeborgdot]

My sensors have been kicking my lights on in the day now. I added another switch to the scene so the 2 sensors now control 2 switches which control 2 different lights. Should I set the switches to responders or controllers? Or should 1 controler and 1 responder? Anyone? Thanks.

[LeeG]

Whether you add the switches as responders only or controllers (which also makes them responders) depends on whether you want a paddle press on one switch to control the other switch. If a paddle press on one switch should turn on both switches then they should be controllers of the scene.

[ingeborgdot]

I want both switches to control both switches. My big question though is why they are coming on during the day now? My sunrise to sunset should work. I will look it over again.

[belias]

I want both switches to control both switches. My big question though is why they are coming on during the day now? My sunrise to sunset should work. I will look it over again.

 

I'm not 100% sure on order of operations, but I believe the program suggested by Rand needs parenthesis or else any time Motion 2 is switched on, the Scene 'Motion' will also be set to on.

 

Try this:

 

 

If 
       From    Sunset 
       To      Sunrise (next day) 
   And 
   (
    Control 'Motion Sensor 1' is switched On 
    Or Control 'Motion Sensor 2' is switched On 
   )

Then 
       Set Scene 'Motion' On 

Else 
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[LeeG]

Ingeborgdot

 

I came to the same conclusion. The WIKI says the AND has precedence over the OR which means the Motion sensor 1 is ANDed with the Sunset to Sunrise and the Motion sensor 2 is ORed so anything from Motion sensor 2 will trigger outside of the Sunset to Sunrise condition.

 

belias suggestion for the use of the parenthesis will AND the Sunset to Sunrise to both the Motion Sensor 1 OR Motion Sensor 2 events.

 

Lee

[ingeborgdot]

This is what I have now for the sunset/sunrise but it is not working for some reason. It comes on during the day.

 

If

From Sunset

To Sunrise - 20 minutes (next day)

And (

Control 'House MS' is switched On

Or Control 'Garage MS' is switched On

)

 

Then

Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

What am I doing wrong?

[ingeborgdot]

Here is the other programs for the backyard light. I don't believe they work either. I know the manual backyard does not. I don't get it.

This is the manual backyard enable

If

Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Fast On

Or Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Fast Off

And Control 'Back Porch Light' is not switched Off

 

Then

Disable Program 'BackYard Motion Control'

 

Else

Enable Program 'BackYard Motion Control'

Set 'Back Porch Light' On

Wait 1 second

Set 'Back Porch Light' Off

Enable Program 'BackYard Motion Control'

 

Here is the motion control

 

If

Status 'Garage MS' is On

Or Status 'House MS' is On

 

Then

Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On

 

Else

Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' Off

 

I am really struggling I guess. I am getting better but still struggling.

 

 

 

 

 

[oberkc]

This is what I have now for the sunset/sunrise but it is not working for some reason. It comes on during the day.

 

If

From Sunset

To Sunrise - 20 minutes (next day)

And (

Control 'House MS' is switched On

Or Control 'Garage MS' is switched On

)

 

Then

Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

This looks correct to me. I expect this to work, also (although it is unclear to me how these lights turn off. Is the motion sensor part of your 'backyard lighting' scene?) Have you checked the time on your ISY? Is it possible that the system settings got messed up?

 

Here is the other programs for the backyard light. I don't believe they work either. I know the manual backyard does not. I don't get it.

 

I am a little concerned that your manual backyard enable program includes actions in the "else" section that may trigger a re-evaluation of your program conditions. This violates one of my personal general programming rules for the ISY.

 

As for the motion control program, is this constrained by sunset or sunrise anywhere? Is this program enabled along with your sunset/sunrise program, above?

[ingeborgdot]

What do you need to know more from me? What would you do differently to make all of this work? I just need some help, practice and whatever else it takes to get this right.

The time was right.

[ingeborgdot]

In my scene I have the two switches that control the two outside lights. I don't have the motion sensors. Do I need the motion sensors in the scene?>

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello ingeborgdot,

 

I think it would be much more efficient and much less waste of your time if you contacted our tech support and we'll help you out.

 

Our hours are 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM Pacific time.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ingeborgdot]

My biggest problem with that is my times don't work well with yours. I may be able to call this week. I will try. Thanks.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello ingeborgdot,

 

I am so very sorry to hear. Please do be kind enough to use our contact form (http://www.universal-devices.com/contact.htm ) and provide us with a few time slots that are convenient for you. We'll try our best to schedule/contact you at those hours even if outside our working window.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ingeborgdot]

I have a question about after changing the programs on my 2 ms. If I change the program, do I need to do anything to the ms or just the switches to reset them to take the new program? Thanks.

[oberkc]

If I change the program, do I need to do anything to the ms or just the switches to reset them to take the new program?

I would expect the answer to this to be no, unless your program is now looking for something new from the motion sensor that is disabled by jumper settings. Otherwise, program changes require no change to individual insteon device settings, including those of a motion sensor.

[fitzpatri8]

Two different answers, depending on what you meant by 'program.'

 

You would need to hold down the motion sensor's set button to put it in link mode in order to change the conditions under which the motion sensor transmits a signal or to add or remove a directly linked device. In other words, to change to or from night-only mode, occupancy mode, on-only mode, or to link or unlink a device directly to the motion sensor, you would need to put the motion sensor in link mode to allow the ISY to reprogram it.

 

You would not need to do anything with the motion sensor if you were only changing an ISY program that responded to an existing motion sensor signal or changing the dim level or ramp rate of a device already linked to the motion sensor. Once a device is linked, the ISY can change a responder device's actions by manipulating the database of the responder only.

[ingeborgdot]

Well, I have just been re doing the programming in the isy for the 2 ms in my back yard.

The 2 sensors run the same two lights. The programming of this is kicking my behind. I had it working, (I thought) but for some reason it started turning on in the day and I have not been able to get it fixed. Everyone on here has given me advice but it has been a little bit here and a little there that I am just getting confused. I am not a wizard at this like the rest of you on here. I do a program and then maybe don't do another one for 6 months or so. I kind of forget things sometimes. If someone would just give me a program in full that would work for the 2 ms for the 2 lights that I have in a scene together I would be forever in your debt.

I want them to turn on only in the night and have it shut off after about 3-5 minutes. I think I have it that the ms are what controls the off time so I don't think I need something there unless everyone feels that is needed. That is all I need this to do.

I have a ms in the front and have it programmed with no problems. It is the 2 ms that is beating me to death. The one in front is put into a folder that was done over a year ago and it still works great. I am not sure if that maybe putting this into a folder would work better or not. The problem is I have to figure out how a folder works again. Rand helped me out with it so I would have to try to figure it out.

If someone would please be so kind as to help I would thank you greatly.