2456S3 ApplianceLinc not reporting status

[rick.curl]

I've got a problem with two 2456S3's not reporting their on/off status. One of them was totally dead and I re-capped it.  Now it works but does not report status. The other was working but not reporting status.  I re-capped it too.  At this point I can command the relay on and off and both of them  work fine, but looking at the Admin console, they always appear to be off.  Has anyone found a way to repair this? Any chance anyone has reverse engineered the schematic?

Thanks for any guidance on this.

-Rick

     

[Techman]

Run a diagnostic / compare link tables. It's possible that either the ISY or the Device has corrupted links.

Another possibility is that being the appliancelinc is a single band device you could have some power line noise issues.

[atmarosi]

I would reset it and re-link/join to the PLM

[rick.curl]

I deleted one of the devices from the system and then re-linked it.  The problem remains. My gut feeling is that it is not transmitting anything back to the PLM. That's why I was hoping to find a schematic (I am an Electrical Engineer).

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

 

-Rick

 

 

[hart2hart]

I’ve kept around an access point to troubleshoot issues. If you have one plug it in same outlet. Then press button on appliancelinc and see if led blinks. If do move it further away. Will tell you if it is transmitting.

[kclenden]

10 hours ago, rick.curl said:

At this point I can command the relay on and off and both of them  work fine, but looking at the Admin console, they always appear to be off. 

So you command them ON and/or OFF from the Admin Console, and they go On and/or Off, but their status does not change in the Admin Console?  This would imply one-way communication, but not two-way.  I suppose that could happen, but it seems like an unusual failure mode, especially for two devices to fail in the same way.

5 hours ago, rick.curl said:

My gut feeling is that it is not transmitting anything back to the PLM.

Have you watched communication between the devices using the Admin Console Event Viewer (Tools->Diagnostics->Event Viewer)?  Set the Level to "3. Device communications events".

Edited January 24, 2023 by kclenden

[rick.curl]

11 hours ago, kclenden said:

So you command them ON and/or OFF from the Admin Console, and they go On and/or Off, but their status does not change in the Admin Console?  This would imply one-way communication, but not two-way.  I suppose that could happen, but it seems like an unusual failure mode, especially for two devices to fail in the same way.

Have you watched communication between the devices using the Admin Console Event Viewer (Tools->Diagnostics->Event Viewer)?  Set the Level to "3. Device communications events".

Here's what I get when I turn the device on:

Edited January 24, 2023 by rick.curl

[kclenden]

11 hours ago, rick.curl said:

Here's what I get when I turn the device on:

That log indicates your device is communicating with the ISY just fine.  Here's what each line means:

First Line says that the ISY sent an "On at 100%" message to the PLM that is intended for device 01.05.19.

Second line says that the PLM received the message and passed it on to device 01.05.19

Third line is a NAK response from device 01.05.19 to device 52.64.60 (presumably your PLM) that says the message was received but that the device encountered an error.  If no error had been encountered, the response would have been an ACK.  The last byte (FE) in the response from device 01.05.19 indicates the error that the device encountered.  FE stands for "No load detected".

So your ISY (via the PLM) is having a successful two-way communication with your device.  The ISY does not change the status of the device because it receives a NAK instead of an ACK from the device.  The device sends a NAK because it cannot detect a load.

Edited January 25, 2023 by kclenden

[rick.curl]

20 hours ago, kclenden said:

That log indicates your device is communicating with the ISY just fine.  Here's what each line means:

First Line says that the ISY sent an "On at 100%" message to the PLM that is intended for device 01.05.19.

Second line says that the PLM received the message and passed it on to device 01.05.19

Third line is a NAK response from device 01.05.19 to device 52.64.60 (presumably your PLM) that says the message was received but that the device encountered an error.  If no error had been encountered, the response would have been an ACK.  The last byte (FE) in the response from device 01.05.19 indicates the error that the device encountered.  FE stands for "No load detected".

So your ISY (via the PLM) is having a successful two-way communication with your device.  The ISY does not change the status of the device because it receives a NAK instead of an ACK from the device.  The device sends a NAK because it cannot detect a load.

Thanks for the info.  That's very helpful.  What  I do not understand is that if it is not reporting its status because there is no load, why do other 2456's report status even when there is no load connected? 

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, rick.curl said:

Thanks for the info.  That's very helpful.  What  I do not understand is that if it is not reporting its status because there is no load, why do other 2456's report status even when there is no load connected? 

pure guess... but different device firmware,the old smarthome was kinda famous for changing things without telling anyone or updating docs.   

There's also a few hardware features that UD has never implemented, an example is disconnecting the load and button 8 of keypad dimmers.  I don't remember any non-UD utilized hardware options that I've seen that would apply in this case tho.

[Brian H]

There where two major hardware 2456S3 modules along with different firmware.

The V1.3 and all the other V1.?. Have a 120VAC relay in it along with its hardware.

The V4.0 and above. Where completely redesigned with a 24VDC relay and hardware.

V1.? modules had local control sensing. Enabled and you had to disable it with an added X10 Off address. The V4.? have local control sensing disabled and you used a some set button routines to enable it.

[kclenden]

6 hours ago, rick.curl said:

What  I do not understand is that if it is not reporting its status because there is no load, why do other 2456's report status even when there is no load connected?

As others have suggested, perhaps different firmware versions.  It's also possible that there is still a physical problem with the devices and they're just reporting it as "No load detected".  In the docs that I have, there are only three possible error codes that can be returned via a NAK, so perhaps it's some other problem for which an error code was never created.  Have you tried plugging in a load and then commanding them ON to see if their status changes?

I'm also curious what happens if you command the device ON from the Admin Console and then follow that up with a manual query of the device.  Does the status change to reflect the ON status?

Edited January 25, 2023 by kclenden