A couple of noobie questions

[belias]

I'm in the process of setting up my ISY, and I have a few questions. I've tried my best to search the forum / Wiki before posting, but there's a LOT of information - so if I missed something, my apologies! Any help would be great. Thanks!

 

 

1. I have two I/O Lincs (v. 35) on my garage doors. I've read the previous forum postings on these units, and my V.35's both correctly report the sensor status (when not set to "reverse trigger"). The problem I'm having is that the "Momentary C" option doesn't seem to work as intended - instead it seems to act as Momentary B (an ON signal always triggers the relay). This option should (and did, when set manually) allow the relay to only trigger based on the sensor status (i.e. an OFF command would only close those doors that are open). I've tried a factory reset / restore device with no luck. Any ideas?

 

2. I have 4 KPL's, and for some reason only one of them responds to the LED Brightness setting (as set by the "LED Brightness" button in the device screen). The one that responds correctly is a V. 2D; the ones not responding are V. 2C and V. 36. For the latter two, there is no change in KPL brightness regardless of the setting in the ISY...for the V. 2D, the change shows almost immediately on the KPL.

 

3. I have a few 6-button KPL's and I know there's an option to turn off the backlight on the lower "OFF" button. So, in other words, when the main load is switched on, the top-button glows brightly; however, when the main load is off, the lower button remains at the "off" backlight setting. I can't figure out how to do this via the ISY...am I missing something or is it easier to make that change locally?

 

4. For some reason any time I create a new program it always defaults to disabled the first time I save it, even though the checkbox is marked for "Enabled". I have to reopen the program, check the box, and re-save for it to be enabled. At most this is a little annoyance, but I thought I'd through it out there.

 

5. If I have multiple scenes turning on in a program (in the "Then" section), do I need a delay between them? Not sure how the ISY works with "group cleanups", etc...

 

 

 

Thanks for any help - and this is one AWESOME product. I'm doing things with my home that I never thought possible! Also, thank you for the amazing support. I wasn't sure about spending the money on the ISY, but after reviewing this forum and level of support offered - it was an easy decision...

 

 

 

-Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

If you are already using our latest firmware (2.7.14 RC1), then please do ensure that you are using the correct URL to access your ISY:

http://www.universal-devices.com/99i/2.7.14 OR

http://www.universal-devices.com/99i/2.7.14/admin.jnlp

 

Please see my comments below.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

1. I have two I/O Lincs (v. 35) on my garage doors. I've read the previous forum postings on these units, and my V.35's both correctly report the sensor status (when not set to "reverse trigger"). The problem I'm having is that the "Momentary C" option doesn't seem to work as intended - instead it seems to act as Momentary B (an ON signal always triggers the relay). This option should (and did, when set manually) allow the relay to only trigger based on the sensor status (i.e. an OFF command would only close those doors that are open). I've tried a factory reset / restore device with no luck. Any ideas?

Please do ensure that you have our latest firmware:

http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=4379

 

2. I have 4 KPL's, and for some reason only one of them responds to the LED Brightness setting (as set by the "LED Brightness" button in the device screen). The one that responds correctly is a V. 2D; the ones not responding are V. 2C and V. 36. For the latter two, there is no change in KPL brightness regardless of the setting in the ISY...for the V. 2D, the change shows almost immediately on the KPL.

You cannot do anything about the 2C. For v.36, please do ensure that you have our latest firmware (see above).

 

3. I have a few 6-button KPL's and I know there's an option to turn off the backlight on the lower "OFF" button. So, in other words, when the main load is switched on, the top-button glows brightly; however, when the main load is off, the lower button remains at the "off" backlight setting. I can't figure out how to do this via the ISY...am I missing something or is it easier to make that change locally?

Please see #2. In short, you have to set the Off level to 0.

 

4. For some reason any time I create a new program it always defaults to disabled the first time I save it, even though the checkbox is marked for "Enabled". I have to reopen the program, check the box, and re-save for it to be enabled. At most this is a little annoyance, but I thought I'd through it out there.

Please update the firmware to the latest release

 

5. If I have multiple scenes turning on in a program (in the "Then" section), do I need a delay between them? Not sure how the ISY works with "group cleanups", etc...

It's not necessary but it all depends on the response times from your devices. It's best to observe the behavior and if some devices do not respond, then add small delays.

[belias]

Hi Michel,

 

Thanks for the quick reply. I am using 2.7.13, but I'll upgrade to the latest and try again. I'm a little confused on the correct way to access the ISY. I have been simply browsing to the static IP of the ISY and choosing "Admin Console". What's the difference between that and using the URL you provided?

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

If you are using 2.7.13 and you use the admin console from ISY, then I do not think the upgrade is going to help.

 

On your KPL v36, when you click on the Brightness button, do you get both On and Off levels?

 

On your IOLinc, can you try the latching mode and see if it works properly?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi Michel,

 

Thanks for the quick reply. I am using 2.7.13, but I'll upgrade to the latest and try again. I'm a little confused on the correct way to access the ISY. I have been simply browsing to the static IP of the ISY and choosing "Admin Console". What's the difference between that and using the URL you provided?

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Brian

[belias]

Hi Michel,

 

On the KPL v36 units, I see both "Off level" and "On level" as available options (actually, I see both of these for the v2C and v2D as well).

 

The latching mode works correctly with my V.35 I/O Lincs - it will hold the relay closed (or open) indefinitely when set to this mode.

 

Also - I'm not entirely sure I understand your comment for #3 from my original post (regarding the 6-button KPL). I didn't do a great job of explaining it... when I was using HouseLinc2, there was an option for the 6-button KPL's (it was a checkbox called "backlight" that applied to the load on/off buttons). When the box was unchecked, pressing "Load ON" turned the backlight on bright for the top button; pressing "Load OFF" resulted only in the dim backlight for the top and bottom. As it is now, when the Load is switched OFF, the bottom button glows brightly which I don't want. I _do_ want the normal on/off backlight for all the other buttons. I may be able to program this locally at the switch if it's not supported by the ISY.

 

 

 

Thanks again,

 

 

-Brian

[io_guy]

Might be an idea to check for communication issues with the KPL.

I had a v35 KPL that was on on the same circuit as a computer which was causing noise.

I could not adjust LED level successfully and it always took a while to write to.

After installing a filterlinc and doing a restore on the KPL, everything was fine.

 

For the majority of people in the form using IO Lincs for garage doors, the relays are set to latch (Mine is and works great).

[belias]

Io_guy: Thanks for the ideas. I checked comm on the KPL and all appears good...it never misses a group command, it's fast to program and no errors in the log. I also tried a restore yesterday, but I'll give it another shot today with a factory reset as well.

 

As far as latching mode on the garage: I'm not sure how that would work since it seems like it would hold the garage door opener switch on indefinitely (unless I make a program using a wait command to perform an on/off). The advantage of the "Momentary C" in my application is that I'd like one button to close any open garage door. Using Momentary C saves me some programming since I could always send just an ON command to all garage doors and only those open would close.

 

I'll wait to see what Michel, etc. has for suggestions and if not maybe the latching mode with a program is the way to go.

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

- Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

Apologies for a tardy reply.

 

As far as the KPL On/Off button, are you certain that you are not describing the non-toggle mode? As far as I remember, that's the only mode that lets you have the On button not toggle (with off). There's also one more option which is called mutual exclusivity: when buttons {...} are on buttons {.,.} are off and vice versa.

 

If you see the on/off level for your SWL as well, then please update your firmware to 2.7.14 (you have 2.7.13) and make sure you clear your Java cache. Alternatively, you might want to try the following URL to see if you have the same behavior before upgrading to 2.7.14:

http://www.universal-devices.com/99i/2.7.14/admin.jnlp

 

As far as your IOLinc, from what I understand, Momentary C means that the relay's status is equal to the sensor status (unless reversed). In short, whenever the sensor is shorted, the relay is shorted and whenever the sensor is opened the relay is opened. From my experience with Garage doors, I am not certain how you could use this mode.

 

Depending on the SWITCH mode for your garage door opener, the best modes are latching or Momentary A or B. In Momentary A or B, your choice of NC or NO lets you decide which signal should turn on the relay.

 

If you could explain in more depth the use case, I would be better equipped in answering your question. Furthermore, if you have an multi meter, it would be great if you could check how your current garage door switch works (toggle or non-toggle on or non-toggle-off).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[belias]

Hi Michel,

 

Certainly no need for apologies - as usual very impressive response times (on Easter Sunday, none the less!).

 

 

1. Regarding the 6-button KPL, the functionality I'm describing only effects the backlight. The ON/OFF buttons still work as a toggle, but when it's toggled OFF, the "OFF" backlight is dim. Looking through the documentation for the KPL, it doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere...making me appear slightly crazy...

 

2. Regarding the "Momentary C" functionality - here's how I understand it: In this mode, the status of sensor determines if the I/OLinc relay will trigger. This is useful in my situation where I have a KPL button that I want to only close the garage doors which are currently open (I have 3 garage doors, each with its own I/OLinc). So...if I have all of them set to "Momentary C" and send an Insteon "ON" command - only those I/OLincs with an open door will trigger the relay. Those I/OLincs with a close door will ignore the "ON" command. This simplifies things in my setup because I don't need any ISY programming to get my KPL button to simply close any door that happens to be open. It's explained well in the I/OLinc Wiki here (about 1/2 way down in the "Momentary C" sectoin):

 

http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?title=2450_Manual

 

I'm fairly confident in this explanation, because I had it functioning correctly using Momentary C prior to switching to the ISY. In other words, my one KPL button sending an "OFF" command shut any of the open garage doors without any need for a separate home automation controller. As an alternative, I can simply use the Momentary A with a few ISY programs...

 

P.S. My garage door uses a momentary trigger and this cycles the opener. Right now (annoyingly) I have the sensor wired to show "Sensor OFF" when the door is open. I need to switch that soon...

 

3. LED Brightness: My SWL's all show "On Level" only; my 4 KPL's (various revisions as specified before) all show "On Level" and "Off Level". I'll try the different link provided below, and also try upgrading FW to 2.7.14. Out of curiosity - what's the difference between using the URL you provided (www.universal-devices.com.....) vs. my internal link (IP address of the ISY)?

 

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

 

-Brian

[upstatemike]

If you can't find the directions to configure the OFF button manually it is as follows:

 

1. P&H (press and hold) large ON or OFF button for 10 seconds, putting it into linking mode.

2. P&H for 5 seconds, putting it into unlinking mode.

3. P&H for another 5 seconds until LED's stop blinking

 

Now the OFF LED will not illuminate when the local load is OFF. To undo, just 10-5-5 it again.

 

Hope that helps,

[belias]

upstatemike: Thank you - that's it! There must be an Insteon command for that, because I was able to do it remotely previously - but that's easy enough to apply at each KPL. Perfect!

 

 

Michel: I tried updating to 2.7.14 RC1 and the LED brightness issue remains. I also tried adjusting the LED brightness on an SWL v.38 and it also doesn't work. All other settings (local ramp rate, local brightness, joining scenes, etc.) work flawlessly.

 

 

Thanks!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

SWL versions below 4.5 do not allow for the backlight to be adjusted using programing. What version of SWL do you have?

 

As far as the KPLs, I really do not know where to go from here. I do have versions 2D and 36 for both of which I can adjust the backlight levels.

 

The difference between the UI from our website and ISY is practically nothing except that in some rare cases, if we have UI changes, then we just upload it on the website so that you do not have to upgrade the firmware.

 

Now, back to your IOLinc. I was not aware of this feature mostly because I have to experiment with things just to make sure they do what they should.

 

Now, the main questions for me:

1. Does ISY show the correct status for the sensor node for each and every one of your IOLincs? If so, what happens if you query the IOLinc? Is the status still correct? (i.e. does it show whether or not the door is opened/closed?)

2. I assume you have a scene with the IOLinc relays as responders and a KPL as a controller, correct?

3. Can you please (one more time) explain what happens now. I understand what should happen but I need to better understand what does actually happen

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[belias]

Hi Michel,

 

I'm not sure what change, but after the upgrade to 2.7.14, the I/OLinc's are now correctly operating in "Momentary C" mode. When I send an "OFF" command, only I/OLinc's attached to the OPEN garage doors trigger. This is exactly what is supposed to happen. Previously, it had been operating the same as "Momentary A" - where an "OFF" command triggered the relay regardless of the door position. So...not sure what changed...but thanks!

 

As far as the LED Brightness, the SWL I tested is v.38 and it did not work. It's not a huge concern for me, since it's easy to change locally - but I thought I'd mention it.... If I want to start from scratch from these KPL's - it is sufficient to perform a factory reset of the KPL, then do a "Restore Device" from the ISY?

 

Not sure if it's still relevant - but here are a few answers to your questions regarding the I/OLinc in Momentary C:

 

1. Yes - sensor status is correct (and updates correctly). Query is also correct. Relay (as we know) does not report at the end of the momentary.

 

2. Yes - I/OLincs are responders, and the 3 KPL's (with the "Overhead Door Close" button) are controllers. Now working perfectly - KPL illuminates if any one of the 3 doors are open (by program) and any open door closes if the button is pressed (by scene linking).

 

3. Now working as described above.

 

 

 

Thanks again for all the help and an awesome product!

 

 

-Brian

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks so very much for the update. I am so very pleased to hear that everything is working properly (except the brightness).

 

The answer to your question is: in most cases yes. Unless, you had your ISY crawl your KPL and there were too many orphaned links (not very likely).

 

With kind regards,

Michel