Insteon 8 keypad Timer Dead

[apostolakisl]

11 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said:

So, if I want the off button to turn everything off if it is on should it be like this?

If

     Bathroom fan is switched on

or Bathroom fan B is switched on

or Bathroom fan C is switched on

etc.

Then

Set Bath Fan Outlet Off

Does that look right?

I guess I am confused here.  Is the KPL not hard wired to the fan?  And what do you want each of the KPL buttons to do?

[ingeborgdot]

I have everything created. 8 scenes and 8 programs. All seem to be working. I just need a little tweeking. When I had the main button programmed, I had the program turn off the outlet. The problem was that it didn't turn off the backlight of the button. So, I went and program it to turn that button off also.

I'll test the other buttons and see if the backlight turns off on them or not.

 

[ingeborgdot]

5 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

I guess I am confused here.  Is the KPL not hard wired to the fan?  And what do you want each of the KPL buttons to do?

Well, I explained it in an earlier post. I have a fantech fan plugged into an appliancelinc outlet up in the attic. It is not hardwired at all. The switch is actually controlling the appliancelinc which turns the fan on and off.

I want each button to run the time that were on the previous buttons. Run for 2, 5, 10, 15, 30, 1hr, 2hr, off. That's what the buttons were and how the timer worked from the previous insteon timer.

Edited November 27, 2023 by ingeborgdot

[ingeborgdot]

So, I have the A button working where it turns the fan off and the light on the button turns off. I have the other buttons where they turn the fan off, but not the light behind the button. I'll have to look at the settings for this because I have no option in your devices for that. I only have query, backlight and write changes. No off.

[ingeborgdot]

And maybe I'm just not explaining it well enough. I do that a lot. I am getting the fan to shut off at set time, but the lighted button is staying on all buttons but the main button A which gives me the option to turn it off. The other buttons don't give me that option.

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, ingeborgdot said:

And maybe I'm just not explaining it well enough. I do that a lot. I am getting the fan to shut off at set time, but the lighted button is staying on all buttons but the main button A which gives me the option to turn it off. The other buttons don't give me that option.

Create multiple scenes.  Each scene will have one of the KPL buttons and the appliance link running the fan.  The KPL button will be a controller of the scene.  At this point, pressing any of those buttons will turn the fan on, no programs needed.

Now, to turn it off.  For each KPL button scene, create a program, adjusting the wait time for whatever you want for each button.

If
  KPL button is switched on (the button you want to set the timer for below minutes)
 and 
  KPL button is not switched on (one of the other buttons)
 and
  KPL button is not switched on (another button . . etc including all of the other buttons)
Then
  wait x minutes
  set scene that KPL button is in off

Also, if you manually turn the KPL button off, this will shut the fan off.

 

EDIT:  You might also put in each scene all of the kpl buttons, but make all of the non-primary kpl buttons responders and set the "on level" to off.  This way, if you say push button b, then change your mind and push button c, button b will turn off.  I also edited the program above so that if you push say button b, then change your mind and hit button c, not only will the kpl light turn off, but the program timer for that button will end.

Edited November 27, 2023 by apostolakisl

[ingeborgdot]

I think that is it. It shut off the fan and the light. in the Then section after I say wait, do I need to set bath fan outlet off and the scene or just the scene and it will take care of the light??? I attached my program.

[ingeborgdot]

6 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

Create multiple scenes.  Each scene will have one of the KPL buttons and the appliance link running the fan.  The KPL button will be a controller of the scene.  At this point, pressing any of those buttons will turn the fan on, no programs needed.

Now, to turn it off.  For each KPL button scene, create a program, adjusting the wait time for whatever you want for each button.

If
  KPL button is switched on (the button you want to set the timer for below minutes)
 and 
  KPL button is not switched on (one of the other buttons)
 and
  KPL button is not switched on (another button . . etc including all of the other buttons)
Then
  wait x minutes
  set scene that KPL button is in off

Also, if you manually turn the KPL button off, this will shut the fan off.

 

EDIT:  You might also put in each scene all of the kpl buttons, but make all of the non-primary kpl buttons responders and set the "on level" to off.  This way, if you say push button b, then change your mind and push button c, button b will turn off.  I also edited the program above so that if you push say button b, then change your mind and hit button c, not only will the kpl light turn off, but the program timer for that button will end.

On your edit part, where you say that I might put all of the kpl buttons in each one of them, are you saying all 8 scenes I created for the switch? 2 Min scene, 5 Min scene, 10 Min scene, 15 Min scene etc.

Take and put KPL A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H in each one of them?

Scene: Bathroom Fan 5 Min
Bath Fan Outlet (This is the applicancelinc in the attic) responder

Bathroom Fan - B controller     Are you saying I would add all the rest in this scene, plus all the other scenes?

Bathroom Fan - A responder (this is the main button)

Bathroom Fan - C responder

Bathroom Fan - D responder

Bathroom Fan - E responder

Bathroom Fan - F responder

Bathroom Fan - G responder

Bathroom Fan - H responder

So the primary button in this scene is B, right? And if I did the scene for let's say the 1 HR, F would be the primary, and the others would be the non-primary. ???

Sorry for the ignorance. This is just a little different than anything I've done before. Thanks.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by ingeborgdot

[apostolakisl]

17 hours ago, ingeborgdot said:

I think that is it. It shut off the fan and the light. in the Then section after I say wait, do I need to set bath fan outlet off and the scene or just the scene and it will take care of the light??? I attached my program.

If you shut the scene off, everything in the scene shuts off.  So that would shut off both the kpl button and the outlet the fan is plugged into.  If you want to shut off something else, then you need to either add it to the scene or list it separatley.

By listing all the other KPL buttons as "not switched on", it will cause this program to terminate if you push one of the other buttons.  For example, if you push button C, that will be a "switched on" event, which will trigger this program.  But it is listed as "not switched on", so that will trigger the else clause.  If the wait is already running, then it will end.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by apostolakisl

[apostolakisl]

15 hours ago, ingeborgdot said:

On your edit part, where you say that I might put all of the kpl buttons in each one of them, are you saying all 8 scenes I created for the switch? 2 Min scene, 5 Min scene, 10 Min scene, 15 Min scene etc.

Take and put KPL A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H in each one of them?

Scene: Bathroom Fan 5 Min
Bath Fan Outlet (This is the applicancelinc in the attic) responder

Bathroom Fan - B controller     Are you saying I would add all the rest in this scene, plus all the other scenes?

Bathroom Fan - A responder (this is the main button)

Bathroom Fan - C responder

Bathroom Fan - D responder

Bathroom Fan - E responder

Bathroom Fan - F responder

Bathroom Fan - G responder

Bathroom Fan - H responder

So the primary button in this scene is B, right? And if I did the scene for let's say the 1 HR, F would be the primary, and the others would be the non-primary. ???

Sorry for the ignorance. This is just a little different than anything I've done before. Thanks.

 

For each scene, say the 10 minute scene, button C.  Add to that scene all the other buttons, but set the "on level" to "off" for all the buttons except C.  This way only one KPL button will be on at a time.  So the controller is button c, you can see it is red.  If you click on that red button c listing, it will show all the settings for all the stuff in that scene when controlled by button c.  Now go down the list and set the "on level" to "off" for everything except button c and the fan outlet.

[ingeborgdot]

19 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

For each scene, say the 10 minute scene, button C.  Add to that scene all the other buttons, but set the "on level" to "off" for all the buttons except C.  This way only one KPL button will be on at a time.  So the controller is button c, you can see it is red.  If you click on that red button c listing, it will show all the settings for all the stuff in that scene when controlled by button c.  Now go down the list and set the "on level" to "off" for everything except button c and the fan outlet.

Got it. All done and works. Yippee. Thanks so much.

My only thing left is to get the off button to turn any of the buttons off and the light of the off button off as well, or at least tone it down to the level the other buttons are when off. Does this make sense? I'll look it over and see if I can figure it out, but I doubt it. I'm sure it isn't hard, at least for you, but I'll go and try.

Again, thank you so much for your time. It is appreciated.

[ingeborgdot]

I got it to shut off the fan when any of the other buttons are on by doing the same thing you said to do in the scenes, but the light behind it turns on and stays on. I'll try to figure out how to get the backlight to not turn on at all.

[ingeborgdot]

I got the OFF button to do what I wanted it to do. It shuts off the other buttons and the backlight also turns off. This was a lot more time-consuming than just getting the actual timer Insteon used to have, but I learned a lot by doing this. I want to thank you so much apostolakisl,  I couldn't have done it without you.

[ingeborgdot]

So, how much better is the eisy over my isy994i? What can I do with the eisy, that I can't do with the 994? Thanks.

[apostolakisl]

22 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said:

So, how much better is the eisy over my isy994i? What can I do with the eisy, that I can't do with the 994? Thanks.

For the most part, it has built-in polyglot 3 node server.  Otherwise, if you want nodeservers you have to use PG2 which is no longer being updated and you have to install the PG2 on a rpi or similar.  Eisy is also has way more processing speed and io ports and stuff which generally isn't needed, though I suspect as ISY continues to update it may grow into needing it.  Also eisy is supporting some of the newer stuf like Matter which I don't believe 994i does.

[apostolakisl]

41 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said:

I got the OFF button to do what I wanted it to do. It shuts off the other buttons and the backlight also turns off. This was a lot more time-consuming than just getting the actual timer Insteon used to have, but I learned a lot by doing this. I want to thank you so much apostolakisl,  I couldn't have done it without you.

Mostly because you were new to most everything you just did.  I could have set it up in 5 minutes, and if you continue to get more familiar with ISY programming, you will too.  The stuff we did here has other applications letting you do things you might not have known could be done.  Like toggling back and forth between two kpl buttons (or all 8).  Setting up scenes where turning one scene on turns something else OFF is something that doesn't immediately strike people as a thing.

[ingeborgdot]

You could have done it in 5 minutes. Thanks for that, rubbing it in. 😜🤪

All the switches in my home are Insteon. I have a very simple setup, but I can almost guarantee you that in my small town of 5,000 people, I'm the only person that has a setup as complicated as I have. It is simple, but to everyone else, it is complicated.

To you, it would be simple, and I'm sure you could do so much more than what I am doing. I do have a couple of neat things I've done. On my 8-key switch in my bedroom, I have 4 of the buttons set to be able to turn off other places in the house if we forget to turn anything off. That way we don't have to go downstairs or to the other room to do it. I guess if I took the time to research more, I could find more cool things to do with the keypads. Maybe I could get more keypads down the road if so.

Do you know where I could find a list of cool things to look at and maybe try?

Again, thank you so much for taking YOUR TIME to help me out.

[apostolakisl]

48 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said:

 

Do you know where I could find a list of cool things to look at and maybe try?

Again, thank you so much for taking YOUR TIME to help me out.

The wiki has sample programs and there is an ISY "cookbook".  Regarding KPL,s basically, you can set them up to be 4 on/off switches using the technique I listed.  An on/off switch has two exclusionary states and by making scenes with two kpl buttons where one shuts the other off, you can do effectively make 2 states, or 3 states, or 4 states . . etc.  With your bathroom, I think you make it an 8 states switch.  I have some kpl's that I use as 4 on/off switches using that technique.  The more you can do with scenes instead of programs, the better (quicker) the response will be.

And if you have the pro 994, then you can set it so that it doesn't write changes until you are done setting things up.  That way you don't have to wait every time you make a single change for it to write before doing the next thing.

And with programs, your 8 (or whatever you ended up) with timers for your 8 kpl buttons can go very fast by making one program, then copying it 7 times and making the couple edits needed.

[ingeborgdot]

So, scenes are better than programs? Was there a way to make my OFF button control the other buttons by turning off any of those buttons, plus their backlight and the OFF button backlight too? I couldn't find a way other than a program.

Copying would have helped, that's for sure. But I think it was good practice for me to do all of that.

I forgot about the part where I could pause the changes. Well, it is what it is. It's all about learning.

[apostolakisl]

44 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said:

So, scenes are better than programs? Was there a way to make my OFF button control the other buttons by turning off any of those buttons, plus their backlight and the OFF button backlight too? I couldn't find a way other than a program.

Copying would have helped, that's for sure. But I think it was good practice for me to do all of that.

I forgot about the part where I could pause the changes. Well, it is what it is. It's all about learning.

If you made one button whose only job is to turn everything off, then yes, just make a scene, make that button as the controller, add all the other buttons to the scene as responders (and the fan switch also).  

Then go into the kpl settings and set the button mode to toggle off only.  So pushing that button always sends an "off" command.

 

EDIT: and you can also make that same button a responder in all of the other scenes so that if you turn on any of the other scenes, that button will light up.  As a responder to a scene, you can turn the button on (backlight), but that does not execute the scene that the button is a controller for.  The scene only executes when you push the button.  That is what "controller" means, it means you actually controlled the item directly.

Edited November 29, 2023 by apostolakisl

[ingeborgdot]

11 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

If you made one button whose only job is to turn everything off, then yes, just make a scene, make that button as the controller, add all the other buttons to the scene as responders (and the fan switch also).  

Then go into the kpl settings and set the button mode to toggle off only.  So pushing that button always sends an "off" command.

 

EDIT: and you can also make that same button a responder in all of the other scenes so that if you turn on any of the other scenes, that button will light up.  As a responder to a scene, you can turn the button on (backlight), but that does not execute the scene that the button is a controller for.  The scene only executes when you push the button.  That is what "controller" means, it means you actually controlled the item directly.

Okay, I have all the other buttons in the OFF scene. Do I turn them all off in the scene like I did with the other 7 scenes? Where you said to go in and make sure each one is set to the off setting instead of the on?

[apostolakisl]

16 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said:

Okay, I have all the other buttons in the OFF scene. Do I turn them all off in the scene like I did with the other 7 scenes? Where you said to go in and make sure each one is set to the off setting instead of the on?

You could make the "on level" be "off", but it would be better to do what I said and make that button a non-toggle off button.  

[ingeborgdot]

Okay. I have them all on, and have used the toggle method. The only thing is that I have to push the OFF button twice to get the light to go off on the button. What did I do wrong?

Also, my 2 min button, which is the main native button on the switch is not working. I don't know what I did, but it was working and now it quit. I'll have to check all the other things to see what I did wrong.

Update: on the 2 min button, the problem was when I did the toggle settings, it set the 2 min button to off, and I didn't see it. I switched it so it is now only toggle, and it turns on and off like it it should.

I still haven't found a way to get the OFF button to turn it off with 1 push.

Edited November 29, 2023 by ingeborgdot

[ingeborgdot]

Got it. If I'd read your directions better it would help. I have used the scene like you said, and now it seems to be working. Thanks for your help.

[apostolakisl]

18 minutes ago, ingeborgdot said:

Got it. If I'd read your directions better it would help. I have used the scene like you said, and now it seems to be working. Thanks for your help.

I assume you set it to non-toggle off.  The reason it took two presses is because the first press was turning it on.  Which can work if you set the on-level as off for all the other devices, but still that kpl button itself will alternate from lit to unlit and not correspond to the status of the fan.  if you set the off button as a responder to all the other scenes, it will light up when ever you turn on any of those scenes so it will look like something to press to when you want to turn something off.