On a "Micro on/off module" 2443-222, what is the "Sense #2" purple wire for?

[someguy]

I have one of these Micro on/off modules sensing power on a wire.  I'd like to be able to use this module to sense something else also and sepately.  can this "Sense #2" wire be used as such? if so, how does it work?

if not, then is there a simpler way to "sense" 110 volts these days and connect it to my insteon system using an insteon product or a nodeserver if necessary?

[paulbates]

There's only one detectable/usable Insteon device in the micro on/off module. The other wire supports different configurations of a single switch - but different types of switches... and is documented in the manual ... search for the product number + Insteon + manual + pdf

I use one of these connected to a lamp post photocell as my dusk sensor, no plugin is needed. I'm also getting  another one and connecting it to a flood light motion sensor.

Edited December 24, 2023 by paulbates

[someguy]

I searched the internet extensively and could only find that the purple sense #2 wire is not for use in the USA. Ha!  I’m not sure what that means about it but I understand that there is only one detectable device.  I was hoping that maybe the purple wire would turn the unit off and I could set up programs for that. 

[gzahar]

32 minutes ago, someguy said:

I searched the internet extensively and could only find that the purple sense #2 wire is not for use in the USA. Ha!  I’m not sure what that means about it but I understand that there is only one detectable device.  I was hoping that maybe the purple wire would turn the unit off and I could set up programs for that. 

See the Dual momentary configuration.  Purple is sense #2.

https://cache.insteon.com/documentation/2443-x22-en.pdf

[Brian H]

Do you want to detect 120VAC or can the current in the 120VAC circuity be used?

The manual does show how the second sense wire can be used.

Not too elegant but you can use a 120VAC coil relay to trigger a I/OLinc Sensor input. To send an Insteon command when 120VAC is on.

If you can use the current. They make a self powered current sensor with dry contact outputs. It could then trigger the I/OLinc.

[someguy]

okay.  I'm trying to connect this Micro On/Off module to detect errors on my Munchkin Boiler. 

can it sense 26 volts of A/C voltage?

[paulbates]

The micro on/off module is not the right device. It will switch contacts on and off by command, not read something that is turning it on and off like your boiler. The closest fit Insteon device to what you want is the IO module, but it takes a maximum of 5 volts and I believe DC not AC... but...

I did something similar with an io module to read that a motor turning on or off. In addition to the IO module, there is a sensor from a company call Functional Devices. You connect that to the io module, and pass one of the wires to the boiler through the Functional Devices sensor... it tells the io module to switch on and off so you can write ISY programs when that happens.

The way I found the right Functional Devices sensor was going to grainger.com and starting a chat... told them what I wanted to do.. In your case:  "I want to turn dry contacts on and off by sensing a 26 volts AC on a wire". It took 5 minutes for them to suggest a part and they ordered if for me right then. It works as it should.

The sensor they suggested for me looks like this so you get an idea.. don't order this one but this is what it looks like.. let grainger help you find the right one, they are really helpful

https://www.grainger.com/product/RIB-Adjustable-Current-Sensing-21AJ46?searchQuery=21aj46&searchBar=true&tier=Not+Applicable

 

[Brian H]

That look similar the the current sensor I was using. To sense the current to a device and trigger an I/OLinc.

The sensor mentioned does not measure voltage. It senses current in a circuit. Like a motor or other load running and drawing current.

26VAC. Sounds like you are trying to detect a control voltage. From a burner control circuit. I am not sure that sensor or the ones I used. Can detect the control current that low. I know my Honeywell now Resido  is a 200mA control current. I believe mine was 500mA minimum but may do lower by wrapping the conductor around the form a few times.

Back in Smarthome days. They had an 8015 sensor. That could do that voltage. With a few improvements it would work with an I/Olinc. Being a hardware type. I dissected it and have information on how to construct one. With a true AC input optpcoupler.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Brian H
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[Brian H]

I have found a possible solution to your problem.

If you wanted to know if 26VAC or 120VAC is on or off and not need to trigger on a circuits current.

Functional Devices. Known for their controls for furnaces and other devices. Makes a RIBU1C. Relay In a Box module. 120VAC and 10-30VAC/VDC input module. Has both a NO (normally open) and a NC (normally closed) relay output. I tested it and it is a relay output. That should interface with a I/OLinc Sensor input. Depending on NC or NO you can get a 26V or 120VAC  is on or off signal. I also tested the 120VAC input and it also worked fine on the relay outputs.

A web search finds it in many places.

https://www.functionaldevices.com/product/ribu1c/

Edited December 27, 2023 by Brian H
Add information. Clear up data

[paulbates]

44 minutes ago, Brian H said:

Makes a RIBU1C Relay In a Box module. 120VAC and 10-30VAC/VDC input module. Has both a NO (normally open) and a NC (normally closed) relay output. I tested it and it is a relay output.

That looks like a better solution than the type I used Brian..more flexible, $30 cheaper and can be secured to the side of a metal jbox. Would have saved me some work for my application.

[someguy]

wow!  you guys are great!  I appreciate the help and the discussion!  I'm going to give the functionaldevices unit a shot.  

[someguy]

here is the wiring diagram for my boiler:

here is the wiring diagram for the "functional devices" unit suggested above:

 

I will connect one of the red wires on the boiler (for "water pressure switch")

to the Wht/ Blu wire on the Relay.

 

but which boiler wire do I connect to the Wht/Yel (Comm) wire on the relay?

should I try the "Bus Line Common" which should be low voltage?  or the "neutral" wire which will be 110V?

[Brian H]

Do you want to use 26VAC or 120VAC? To trigger the lack of power?

White yellow is AC Common on the RIB and should not be the power line neutral. For the 24VAC. It should be one end of a 24VAC power transformers common connection. So white yellow has to be connected to the common power transformers terminal (it could be the buss line common but diagram not clear) and the white blue to the other end of the transformer 24VAC. That will trigger the loss of power through the relay.

If you want to go 120VAC. You can then connect the white yellow to line neutral and find a 120VAC line to the white black wire on the relay. Like X-6 1 Black Line in to RIB white black, X-6 2 Neutral to RIB white yellow common.

I feel it would be best to not try things until you find more information on the buss common being the 24VAC common. If 24VAC is your desired use.

Got the information downloaded and will see if anything pops out.

Remember to insulate the unused wires from the RIB so they do not short to anything else.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Brian H
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