Can New Devices be batch enrolled OFF SITE?

[Robert Messenger]

I have an installation upcoming that now has 129 devices and will probably hit 150+ before completion. The residence is new and occupancy is in four weeks. The devices have been installed by the electrician. The home does not presently have internet. Using the 99i/PRO can I batch load the devices "off site" into the ISY, create scenes and then turn on write mode when I have an internet connection "on site" ?

[mitch236]

I think you would have to visit the site to add the devices to the ISY/PLM. Then I would think you could take the ISY/PLM to a different site and program all your Scenes and Programs (with batch mode off). I'm sure you will get a lot of error messages which you would ignore. Then when you return to the home, you would just plug in the PLM/ISY and turn on batch mode.

 

Of course you can't really test anything out when you're programming off site.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Robert Messenger,

 

As mitch236 suggests, inclusion of devices should be local to the devices. The rest can be done in batch mode.

 

Please note that you do NOT need an Internet connection for the initial load of devices. All you need is a DHCP enabled router to which both your ISY and your computer get connected to.

 

Also, please note that the total number of supported links for a PLM (especially 2413S) is 1000. So, if out of your 150 you will have some KPLs, then you might want to use the calculator to make sure the PLM can support your installation.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Robert Messenger]

OK. After using the calculator if seems I'll be well over the 1000.

 

Q1 Can I use another 99i/PRO and 2413U on the same installation for the Basement, 2nd Floor and Third Floor? This would reduce my keypads count by 8 and device count by 41.

 

Q2 Each of two "1st floor keypads" require buttons to control the 2nd and 3rd stairway and hallway lights (ALL ON ONE SCENE). Can I enroll these two keypads on the 2nd 99i/PRO?

 

Thanks for all the good info!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Robert Messenger,

 

It's doable but it's not as clean and seamless as INSTEON scenes. Basically, what you will have to do is to have 3 disjoint system and then use the Network Module to activate/deactivate scene in each. Not very clean nor elegant.

 

How many links does the calculator show?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Robert Messenger]

Hello Michel,

 

Thanks for your support.

 

The installation is unique in that most of the 2476Ds are located in electrical utility closets(5)and mounted on Middle Atlantic 8 décor device rack panels. The owner only wants the keypads in view for the most part.

From my projections the calculator is estimating 1374 (11-8but 9-6but 144-dev 82-scenes). I can reduce that amount to approximately 900 on the 1st floor ISY by using two as mentioned previously.

 

I have now programmed (2) ISYs behind a router on different IPs. I have a 6 button and 8 button enrolled to each and (2) 2476Ds with one on each ISY. I have created two scenes with the "B" buttons plus (1) 2476D on one and the "C" buttons plus another 2476D on the other. It all seems to work well.

 

Other than a programming nightmare and the start up errors that mitch232 mentioned will it reduce my PLM, Device and ISY links?

 

Best regards,

Robert

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Robert,

 

I am confused as to how these two configurations talk with one another. In short, if you have created these scenes independently on each, then the last one you did takes precedence and overwrites the other.

 

I need some clarifications please.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Robert Messenger]

Hello again and thanks,

 

I’m relatively new at this and you are absolutely right. I did find in that the last write takes precedence. There are a few things I really don’t understand about the way insteon devices store data. On occasion, I feel erroneous links remain in devices altering my initial observations. I have found this to be true even after performing a device reset to factory default. Removing the device from program and then enrolling the device always seems to work best.

 

Let me try to clear things up by restating what I’m trying to accomplish on this install. I fear that on the final programming, at the site, I’m going to exceed the maximum PML links. To set my mind at ease I’m trying to understand how the system handles an overload of devices and power line signal traffic. I would like to know:

 

1. Regardless of any PLM(s) and ISY(s), what is the maximum amount links possible in a home before signals crash?

 

2. If (1) KPL button (as a controller), (1) SWL (as a controller) and (1) SWL (as a responder) all linked together, do they count for three links?

 

3. If I manually program devices such as KPLs and SWLs together without enrolling them into a ISY, are they counted in the total links available? And If so, does each link have a value of 1 in the total?

 

4. If I program two ISYs onto the same network with different IPs and then enroll KPLs or SWLs separately to each ISYs, do they count collectively or separately for the overall total PLM links allowed on each?

 

5. Is there any difference in the total amount links an ISY can handle between a 2412S an2413S?

 

I’m sorry for all the confusion. Every install seems to have more devices, causing additional problems and creating more questions.

 

This forum is great!

Thanks for your support.

Robert

[Brian H]

The spec sheet for the 2412S says 2016 but from what I have seen here >800 seems to be a problem.

 

The 2413S is 1023 from the sales page.

 

I have not seen a number mentioned for with an ISY99i.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Robert,

 

Please see my responses below.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

1. Regardless of any PLM(s) and ISY(s), what is the maximum amount links possible in a home before signals crash?

I do not think there is a limit for signal crash. Links are device specific, for instance KPL can support up to 477 links while some Icon devices support only 30

 

2. If (1) KPL button (as a controller), (1) SWL (as a controller) and (1) SWL (as a responder) all linked together, do they count for three links?

If they are linked via a scene in ISY, then yes: the PLM will use 3 links for these three devices. Furthermore, each device will have at least two links: one for the controller and one for the PLM.

 

3. If I manually program devices such as KPLs and SWLs together without enrolling them into a ISY, are they counted in the total links available?

No. No links is taken up in ISY but each one has links for the other. Furthermore, you will not get status feedback from those devices nor can you control them from ISY

 

And If so, does each link have a value of 1 in the total?

In the manual case, if they are cross linked, each will have two (1 controller and 1 responder)

 

4. If I program two ISYs onto the same network with different IPs and then enroll KPLs or SWLs separately to each ISYs, do they count collectively or separately for the overall total PLM links allowed on each?

Separately since ISY/PLM can be considered one unit

 

5. Is there any difference in the total amount links an ISY can handle between a 2412S an2413S?

Brian H has already responded to this question but let me make it clear:

1. 2412S supports more than 2000 links BUT it cannot process the status updates from devices at links > 800

2. 2413S supports 1023 links and it can handle the status updates for all devices in all link locations