Insteon Issues: Am I overreacting?

[fahrer16]

My wife told me yesterday that she couldn't turn off our closet light, which is driven by an Insteon SwitchLinc (2477S).  I took a look and the the standard click of the relay could be heard along with the lights on the front behaving normally when operating the switch, except the load stayed on.  I then pulled out the air gap so I could cut power to the light, which cut power to the switch itself, but the load still stayed on!

The next day I pulled the switch out, and after replacing it with a spare, I did some troubleshooting and with the switch on the bench not plugged into anything, there was still continuity between the line and the load wires.  I wedged a piece of plastic between the two pieces of the air gap switch and there was still continuity between the wires.

I've also been a bit annoyed by my keypads, and some switches, making a lot of high-pitched humming noises.  It's very noticeable because the pitch changes along with any insteon traffic.  A lot of my LED bulbs connected to Insteon dimmers also blink on Insteon traffic.

Due to those buzzing and blinking issues, I had been toying with moving away from Insteon.  That issue with the switch has made be think about it more seriously now from a safety perspective.  I guess I'm wondering if anyone else is having these issues and am I just being too picky or overreacting?

[Brian H]

Sounds like the relay contacts welded shut but the armature in the relay was able to click. FCC photos not close enough to is if there is a protective network across the relay contacts. If it shorted that would also cause the issue. Though I thought the air gap switch removed the black load wire completely.

Are the LED bulbs rated to be on  dimmer switch?

[paulbates]

How old are the insteon device with the problems? How old is the plm?

The humming and buzzing (and other problems) with akeypads was an issue I had with a number of my keypads around 2011 I think. There was a problem with a production run of them and insteon replaced all of mine from that run. The those keypads were sold with my house last summer, working fine.

I've moved into the i3 switches at my new to me house and I and wife really like them.

If most of your insteon works if stick with it. If you're going to replace it all, factor that cost in along with the learning curve and controllers for the new technology you'd pick

Edited September 2 by paulbates

[fahrer16]

Thanks, guys.  

These devices are from 2019-2021, a little while before they went out of business, I think.  I've been a big Insteon fan but I wonder if some of these issues are related to them cranking stuff through while dealing with supply chain issues and declining business.  

I've tried various dimmable LED bulbs based on some other forums on here.  The Phillips bulbs seem the best, but still some flickering every now and then, even when the level is set to 100%.

I was taking a closer look at the circuit board of that failed switch, and it looks like power is always supplied to the relay.  If the relay's contacts are welded closed, pulling the air gap won't do anything to cut the power.  Not the greatest from a safety standpoint, but maybe they did it that way because it would have been a lot of current to put through the air gap switch. 🤷‍♂️

Maybe I'll pick up a couple of i3 switches to give Insteon one last shot...

[paulbates]

Forgot to mention i3 is eisy (and I think policy) only, not for the 994

[PinchRoller]

On 9/2/2024 at 12:30 PM, Brian H said:

Sounds like the relay contacts welded shut but the armature in the relay was able to click.

Agree that the relay contacts seem welded resulting as the load is remaining on all the time. 

The relay component for the 2477S is Song Chuan 507HN-1AH-F-C 24V, which is pretty highly-rated at 277VAC, 17A and a TV8 rating.  This is the link to the part at Mouser.  The issue with LED loads is that they can draw 100 to 1,000X the regular current in the first few micro-seconds. Whereas incandescent bulbs typically draw 10X the current over the first few milli-seconds.  The "TV" rating was created to account for incandescent bulbs.

On 9/2/2024 at 12:30 PM, Brian H said:

Though I thought the air gap switch removed the black load wire completely.

For the Insteon relay or On/Off products, the load current no longer goes through the air gap switch.  The first few original SwitchLinc Relay products (2476S) had the load current going through the air gap switch and it was later designed to bypass that switch.  All with the approval of Intertek as current through the air gap was not required to cut power to the load.  The relay is supposed to do that....."supposed to".

-Pinch

[fahrer16]

@PinchRoller, thanks for that additional Info, I always enjoy learning something new!  The load in this case was a fluorescent light and I'm getting some mixed results googling how their inrush current would compare to LED and incandescent.  It's walk-in closet, so probably a lot of on/off events for that switch with relatively short durations being on.

This triggered me to resurrect an earlier search I had started for a suitable Insteon replacement.  As part of that I took the training for Lutron RA3 and got a quote for the required parts.  As much as I'd love to make that switch I don't think I can stomach the cost to replace my 140 insteon devices 💸

[Brian H]

My ~2006 2476 SwitchLinc Relay switches. Did not use an Air Gap switch and had a convoluted method to do a Factory Reset. I thought (maybe for a short time) there was an Air Gap switch in a 2476S.

Yup I also saw In Rush current and some models also a Repetitive Peek current that caused issue. I know some manufacturers with dim able LED bulbs. Gave you a wattage rating to take that into consideration. An 8 watt LED bulb that the manufacturer said use a figure of 80 watts when calculating for the wattage on a switch. We had a user in the X10 forums. With a 5 Amp XPPF Filter and a fluorescent light. Burned up. User said he meter said around 2 Amps but they did not take the peak starting and repetitive peek currents in consideration. That their meter didn't show.

Edited September 6 by Brian H
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[haroldunger]

Try Murray Feit bulbs - ended my flicker/flick issues.  The BR30 has variable Kelvin switch on it; PAR30, variable diameter.