Multiple ECM-1240's

[Teken]

Hello Teken,

 

Thanks so very much for the update. 994 is not a public product and it's only used as OEM and for utility projects. This said, we are thinking of making it public.

 

994 has an integrated Zigbee radio so it will allow you to communicate with ECM as well as RCS thermostats and load controllers natively. 994 has more memory so it would have more room for other modules. This said, 99i shall remain our defacto product as it still has a lot of room for growth.

 

When you are ready to get your ECM, please send an email to sales@universal-devices.com with a link to this post and we'll do our best to make your investment as small as possible.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

That sounds most excellent . . . I will await for the vendor to notify me when new stock is available for purchase. As it appears they have pulled the pre-configured units from the sales page.

 

I gather this was because support for the Google Power Meter was being discontinued . . .

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Teken,

 

With pleasure. Without trying to get philosophical here, the premise of a free Energy Portal was a little exaggerated because most people would lose interest in going to their energy portal after a few days, weeks, months. One needs an energy management system to be the eyes and orchestrate energy usage based on user's input and desires.

 

So, that's why we really never go into supporting Google Power Meter and MS Hohm.

 

Now the question is where does one find a free portal to do charting and trending based on different variables such as price of electricity, temperature, heat index, etc.?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

Hi Teken,

 

With pleasure. Without trying to get philosophical here, the premise of a free Energy Portal was a little exaggerated because most people would lose interest in going to their energy portal after a few days, weeks, months. One needs an energy management system to be the eyes and orchestrate energy usage based on user's input and desires.

 

So, that's why we really never go into supporting Google Power Meter and MS Hohm.

 

Now the question is where does one find a free portal to do charting and trending based on different variables such as price of electricity, temperature, heat index, etc.?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

http://pachube.com <-- When you have a few moments would you please review this site. I was told it was a good replacement for a free site. I signed up, but have not yet done anything to in the ways of setting up the account to take advantage of the features they indicate as some of it was over my head.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Teken,

 

We did in fact investigate Pachube before ... the main issues are:

1. The graphs and charts are quite simplistic (one per sensor)

2. It's not really free (you cannot really have any type of trending with one month of free data)

3. It's too generic

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

Hello Teken,

 

We did in fact investigate Pachube before ... the main issues are:

1. The graphs and charts are quite simplistic (one per sensor)

2. It's not really free (you cannot really have any type of trending with one month of free data)

3. It's too generic

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

As always your insight, feed back, and support in all areas is greatly appreciated. I will not pursue the set up of this account any further.

 

It did not seem very user friendly to be honest and the one channel was a deal breaker . . .

[gadgetguru69]

Michel

Just wanted to check in and see how the developement for the Multiple ECM's is comming?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello gadgetguru69,

 

It's on the list but we have not had a lot of demand for it and thus stuck at a very low priority.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[killervette]

If it helps, I would like it too. I would then maybe purchase the plugin

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello killervette,

 

Thanks so very much for the vote! Yes, it does help ...

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello everyone,

 

Quick questions for those interested in multiple ECM support in ISY:

1. Do you have ECM1240 (Zigbee Enabled)?

2. Do you currently have Brultech Module installed in your ISY?

-- And, if so, can you give brief description of how you would use it?

-- What else would you like to see added?

3. Would you be willing to upgrade your ISY99 to 994 Z (INSTEON/Zigbee) for this functionality?

4. If you were to get another energy monitor, what features would you have liked to see?

 

Thanks SO very much and with kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

Hello everyone,

 

Quick questions for those interested in multiple ECM support in ISY:

1. Do you have ECM1240 (Zigbee Enabled)?

2. Do you currently have Brultech Module installed in your ISY?

-- And, if so, can you give brief description of how you would use it?

-- What else would you like to see added?

3. Would you be willing to upgrade your ISY99 to 994 Z (INSTEON/Zigbee) for this functionality?

4. If you were to get another energy monitor, what features would you have liked to see?

 

Thanks SO very much and with kind regards,

Michel

 

Hello Michel,

 

I am currently waiting for the new Brultech 32 channel unit being launched sometime this quarter. Once this device is ready for consumer purchase I will reach out to UDI and purchase the said plug in.

 

From there, I would engage you to discuss the upgrade path and what the associated costs are for this migration. With respect to the features one particular area I would like to have clarified is:

 

1. Where is all the data being stored?? Will the ISY be the point of access and the storage place for all the energy data??

 

Or will I have to set up a computer to be live 24/7/365 to receive the *pushed* data from the ISY? I ask because I know you touched upon the new unit having more on board memory but fear it may not have enough storage keep all of the data perpetually.

 

Having said that: Is the intent of the ISY to have a reserved area of storage for this energy data? Or will it share it with the other programs etc? Also, if the data is not being stored indefinitely will the user be able to access the data and down loaded it to an alternate location?

 

Some vendors simply do a roll over of old data, and over write new data once a pre set limit has been met. Is this the methodology the UDI team is considering?

 

I am simply asking these questions to get a better understanding of the whole upgrade and feature set of this new device / upgrade.

 

Regardless, I am eager to help you and the UDI team keep this project moving along. As I see this as one of many key elements which will keep the ISY platform on the cutting edge, and also reinforce the whole value / investment factor I have praised over and over again to all my friends and family members.

 

Lastly, once I confirm that the new Brultech 32 channel device is ready for consumer use. Please do add my name on the list of being able to access my ISY to help the UDI team continue the development of this new and exciting feature!

 

Regards

 

Teken . . .

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Teken, thanks so very much for your feedback

 

 

I am currently waiting for the new Brultech 32 channel unit being launched sometime this quarter. Once this device is ready for consumer purchase I will reach out to UDI and purchase the said plug in.

We are thinking of moving out energy management features (which only a handful of customers purchased/used) to the 994 platform with Zigbee. This will give us a more streamlined way of doing more of energy management stuff without impacting the base 99 platform. Furthermore, this will remove the necessity from having to keep polling Brultech. This way, we would have a clean energy management platform built within 994 without impacting base 99 and INSTEON. So, it will be a NEW hardware.

 

1. Where is all the data being stored?? Will the ISY be the point of access and the storage place for all the energy data??

Still debating. We can certainly store it in 994 SD Card with up to 16GB of storage. But, still have to figure out what we are going to do with data. Do we do any analytics? Query for certain data in certain date range? Charts?

 

Or will I have to set up a computer to be live 24/7/365 to receive the *pushed* data from the ISY? I ask because I know you touched upon the new unit having more on board memory but fear it may not have enough storage keep all of the data perpetually.

 

Having said that: Is the intent of the ISY to have a reserved area of storage for this energy data? Or will it share it with the other programs etc? Also, if the data is not being stored indefinitely will the user be able to access the data and down loaded it to an alternate location?

See above. All energy information is published to all clients such as mobile devices and portals

 

Some vendors simply do a roll over of old data, and over write new data once a pre set limit has been met. Is this the methodology the UDI team is considering?

Configurable just like the current logs

 

I am simply asking these questions to get a better understanding of the whole upgrade and feature set of this new device / upgrade.

 

Regardless, I am eager to help you and the UDI team keep this project moving along. As I see this as one of many key elements which will keep the ISY platform on the cutting edge, and also reinforce the whole value / investment factor I have praised over and over again to all my friends and family members.

Thanks so very much!

 

Lastly, once I confirm that the new Brultech 32 channel device is ready for consumer use. Please do add my name on the list of being able to access my ISY to help the UDI team continue the development of this new and exciting feature!

Is it really ready? I have not heard anything about it and we still do not have the API

[bpwwer]

Hello everyone,

 

Quick questions for those interested in multiple ECM support in ISY:

1. Do you have ECM1240 (Zigbee Enabled)?

2. Do you currently have Brultech Module installed in your ISY?

-- And, if so, can you give brief description of how you would use it?

-- What else would you like to see added?

3. Would you be willing to upgrade your ISY99 to 994 Z (INSTEON/Zigbee) for this functionality?

4. If you were to get another energy monitor, what features would you have liked to see?

 

Thanks SO very much and with kind regards,

Michel

 

1. Yes, I have a Zigbee enabled ECM1240 (and a couple non-zigbee units as well)

2. Yes.

It is mostly used for testing. I've been monitoring my energy use (and production) for about 3 years now. What I find most useful is to view trends. Mostly I look at usage over fairly long periods (day, month, year) to see if we're getting better or worse over time. I'm not sure I see the ISY as the central point for data collection and display of the energy data. The data storage requirements could get quite large and could require quite a bit of processing power.

 

I do see a couple of areas where the ISY could interact with energy data to provide useful capabilities.

 

1) Monitoring daily consumption and make some changes if the daily amount goes above some preset limit. For example, I might want to change thermostat setpoints once the limit is reached. Also I may want to reduce light levels once the limit is reached. There isn't much else I can do to change energy use dynamically though. I'm probably not going to change my menu so that I use less power cooking. I'm probably not going to turn off hot water. I'm probably not going to stop doing laundry.

 

2) Monitor specific appliances or circuits to find problems. For example, A couple of times we've had the fridge door not close all the way and I can see the change in the normal energy use patterns. Having the ability to look at this circuit and say if energy use per hour is more than X, send a notice that something may be wrong. This could also be done with iMeterSolo's if they had the ability to track energy used per some fixed time period (maybe resetting and checking total at some interval? I haven't experimented with this yet.)

 

3. Yes. I would upgrade.

 

4. Support for as many inputs as possible so that each circuit can be individually monitored.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks so very much! I think we are close and can meet almost all the requirements as outlined in your post. Just need a little more details as what you mean by usage over variable time period. Can you give me a more concrete example. For instance, since we do get kWh for each channel, can't we just subtract the kWh for on period from another?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[bpwwer]

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks so very much! I think we are close and can meet almost all the requirements as outlined in your post. Just need a little more details as what you mean by usage over variable time period. Can you give me a more concrete example. For instance, since we do get kWh for each channel, can't we just subtract the kWh for on period from another?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Right now I have one of the older 2 channel Brultech monitors attached to my home. So the details are limited since one channel monitors total power flowing to/from the grid and the the other channel monitors our solar inverter. I generate charts and tend to look at three of them most often.

 

First is a line chart showing power use and power generated for each minute of the day. This is nearly real time so I can see spikes and based on the size of the spikes I have figured out typically causes them. For example, if the power use goes up to about 4.5KWh, then I know the HVAC unit is running. If it is at about 6KWh then I know the hot water heater is on. Base level of the house cycles between about 650Wh and 800Wh.

 

Second is the power use and power generated by hour for the day. I don't use this much but it does help pinpoint at a high level what goes on over the course of the day. This isn't significantly different from the first chart, just less detailed.

 

Third is the power use and power generated by day of month. I use this to see if something unusual happened on a specific day.

 

I also do compare month to month and sometimes the latest monthly total to the same time period a year ago to see if we're doing better or worse at conserving energy (2011 was slightly worse than 2010, which I think was because we had a colder winter).

 

At one point our solar array had a connection problem and about a 1/3rd of the array was disconnected. Using the collected data from the previous year, I was able to convince the company that installed it that something was wrong and got them out to fix it. This is one reason I'd like to be able to trigger events based some accumulated value. For example: If energy channel data for june was less than XKWh, send a message. Or be able to track the month's accumulation and each day compare it with an expected value and trigger if the difference is more than x%.

 

At some point I'll get more CT's installed on other circuits and then hook up one or both of the ECM1240's that I have to get more detailed information.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks so very much. This is great and I will surely contact you for more feedback once we are ready to do some charting/trending.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[bpwwer]

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks so very much. This is great and I will surely contact you for more feedback once we are ready to do some charting/trending.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Michel,

 

I would be very interested to hear how other people would like to use energy data. I've tried to get feedback on other forums and have received very little. I don't know if it is because people don't know or that there just isn't very many people who actually want to collect it.

 

It may be worth posting your same query on the Brultech forum, at least the folks on that forum are interested in energy monitoring.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Bob,

 

Yes, we only have a handful of customers with Brultech module installed. As you suggested, I think it would be best t post to the Brultech forum.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Slalom]

Michel

 

I am very interested in the Bultech Module.

 

I would like to monitor my geothermal usage and need to monitor the power used by the company that I run out of my home.

 

I was aware of the Brultech module when I purchased the ISY but to be honest I have yet to research it's present capabilities.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Jeff, thanks so very much for your input.

 

Please watch this topic and we'll be in touch.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[wwat]

Hi Michel,

 

I hope you will consider providing support for the 7 channel ECM's/ISY 99 as we discussed in private emails mid December 2010 with Bob Paauwe. I have 2 ECM units which are currently independant of ISY and am interested in having ISY store, chart and respond to events connected with power usage - both real time and historical usage. With total integration we could set up things like 'power save mode' and run the house a little more economically (which usually equates to a little more discomfort) but in these times of higher energy prices and with all this monitoring hardware at our disposal it is possible if we get the softare to do it. I have managed to save quite a bit over the course of a year by simply doing it on a timing bases (especially with hot water), this is the dumb approach, if we had real time monitoring and access to historical data is would allow for much more interesting programming to refine power usage even more.

I dont see any reason for ISY to store data in anything smaller than 1 minute increments if that helps, as long as the EngineG software is logging as well it will store data in smaller increments if required for whatever use independantly of ISY.

 

Thanks,

Wayne

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Wayne,

 

Thank you for the information. In all likelihood, we would like to move energy management implementation to 994 to have a fresh design without all the partial solutions we had implemented for a variety of things in 99i. To maintain Brultech in 99i would require major regression testing and thus a lot more time have to be spent in development.

 

Furthermore, if your ECMs are Zigbee based, with 994iZ, you will get status updates automatically and do not need to poll them.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[wwat]

Hi Michel,

 

These 2 ECM units I have are not Zigbee based, so it would mean that I would have to replace both my ECM units and the ISY unit which at this point I can't justify financially or for the time it would take to get the new system working again.

It's a little baffling to me that you say you need to create new hardward for what could be a software solution. Why not move all the energy functionality to a seperate module and make that module able to access ALL types of Brultech configurations, that way folks who have existing ISY's and multiple (7 channel) ECM units dont have to purchase another ISY unit.

 

Regards,

Wayne

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Wayne,

 

The main issue is configuration management for a handful (less than 5) customers who do not have Zigbee ECM and maintaining a code base just for those. The development, testing, and management makes it not a worthwhile solution for us.

 

In the meantime, which ECM do you already have? As far as I know, the Ethernet versions communicate via Zigbee to EP1 or something similar.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[wwat]

The main issue is configuration management for a handful (less than 5) customers who do not have Zigbee ECM and maintaining a code base just for those. The development, testing, and management makes it not a worthwhile solution for us.

Fair enough, that's understandable.

 

In the meantime, which ECM do you already have? As far as I know, the Ethernet versions communicate via Zigbee to EP1 or something similar.

I have 2 ECM-1240 with DB-9 cable connected to a wireless gateway device.

 

Regards,

Wayne