IOLInc status not showing in ISY unless queried

[johnnyt]

I have a 6-pack of IO Lincs, all in latching mode to control HVAC things (Fan High Speed, HRV, duct dampers, etc.). When an IOLinc is turned on at the device, either manually or through sensing a low voltage probe going ON, the status is not updated in ISY unless I do a query.

 

The six IO Lincs are on a long (non surge protected) power bar on a dedicated circuit (for the HRV), a short path to my electrical panel, where my PLM and ISY are plugged in, and within 10 ft of an Access Point (which I went so far as to put on the same power bar to see if it helped.) ISY does seem to otherwise see the devices. Certainly I can query and config them, as well as turn them on and off with ISY.

 

Is this normal or could this be an Insteon network problem despite the proximity to the PLM and Access Point?

[oberkc]

I, too, am interested in this. I am a new user of the IOLinc (garage door kit) and notice that my relay status is always on, but that the sensor status accurately reflects the state of the door. I don't know if this is normal, a problem, or whether I should care.

 

In your case, do you also have two devices (relay and sensor) for each of your six IOLincs? If so, are you looking at the status of the relay or sensor?

 

I also notice an option "relay follows input" in the configuration options of the IOLinc. I wonder if this option must be checked in order for the relay status to match the sensor status, should this be important for it to do so.

[LeeG]

Just as an ApplianceLinc does not send an Insteon message when the device is manually turned On/Off (including load sensing) the I/O Linc does not send Insteon messages when the output relay changes state. Only Input Sensor state changes are sent to the linked responders.

 

The relay shows On all the time because the last command sent to the relay is an On command. Momentary mode turns the relay Off which does not result in an Insteon message being sent to any responder.

[johnnyt]

Too bad, I thought it relayed its status. Does it report back if I make it part of scene?

 

Two of the 6 have a voltage probe on them detecting thermostat calls and they do activate the relay (I did check the "relay follows input"config option).

 

The problem I have with status non-reporting is that for some, well actually, most, I wanted to be able to manually activate them and have my ISY programs (and HomeSeer) know about it. For example, I bought the HRV without a controller (putting the $100 toward IOLincs and ISY instead) so this is my only way right now to activate it non programmatically. Also I was going to link them to buttons on a KPL in the living area and wanted them to show the actual up-to-date status.

 

Is there a way around this? I notice that while the relay can follow the sensor, the opposite is not true so I can't check the sensor for 4 that don't have one.

[LeeG]

I don't know of a work around. Just checked the IO Linc online User Guide to be sure. The Input Sensor can be linked as a Controller but the output relay can be linked only as a responder. The output relay has no logic to function as a Controller.

[johnnyt]

maybe I'll write a program that queries the IOlincs every 15 or 30 minutes...

[oberkc]

I wanted to be able to manually activate them and have my ISY programs (and HomeSeer) know about it.

 

Does it report back if I make it part of scene?

 

Also I was going to link them to buttons on a KPL

 

If you were going to link the relays to a KPL button, then would the ISY not know the status of the scene containing the relay button? While this may not be direct feedback, if communication is good, the scene status and relay status would be the same, correct? Is this what you meant when you said "manually activate"....that is, using a KPL button?

[johnnyt]

Well "manually" meant more the IOLinc, but I guess it means both really, using the IOLinc button, which will be downstairs near the unit (in my man cave ) or using the KPL button, which will be upstairs near the kitchen.

 

I realize if I use the KPL, everything will be fine. However, if I understand the situation, using the IOLinc won't be telling my KPL or ISY so I'm going to have to query that KPL scene (or can I get away with just querying the IO Linc?) periodially to light the KPL button and tell ISY/HomeSeer. Is that right?

[oberkc]

That is my understanding, as well.

 

Regarding the query, I understand that a this would work, if being a bit inelegant.

[kaplansa]

maybe I'll write a program that queries the IOlincs every 15 or 30 minutes...

 

I have an i/o link garage door kit and am having the same problem/question. Still not sure I understand the solution. Forgive me...

 

Simply, I have a program that checks the I/O Linc status between sunset and sunrise the following morning, and if the I/O Linc status for the garage door is "Off" then wait 10 seconds, and set the relay to on (thus closing the door).

 

The program works fine ~~but only if I force a query of the garage door status.~~

 

So the problem is that if the garage door is initially closed (status = on) and then someone opens the door at midnight (status = off), the program does nothing since it still thinks the status is "on".

 

But if I manually query the status of the garage door I/O Linc (either through the ISY or MobileLinc on my iPhone), the status correctly updates (to "off" in this case), the program correctly runs, and the garage door eventually closes.

 

Is this normal behavior to have to manually query? If so, then I understand having to write a program to query the I/O Linc every 15 minutes or so to make sure the correct status is updated. But that just seems a little ineffective to me as I would think that the status change in the i/o link (on to off) would automatically update in the ISY somehow.

 

Confirm this is normal behavior or not? Thanks!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello kaplansa,

 

If you are talking about the sensor part of IOLinc, then, NO, this is not the normal behavior: IOLinc should report its sensor status to ISY. What you might want to do is to do a Restore on the IOLinc and then use the Event Viewer to see if there's any traffic when the sensor status changes.

 

If you are talking about the Relay, and if the relay is controlled by anything outside of ISY, then yes, this is normal.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[kaplansa]

Smarthome confirms they've seen this problem with iolinc v1.4 but don't really have an answer or fix. Since I have two that have this problem I'm exchanging them both for new ones and we'll see if it's just an anomaly with this batch or something.

[kaplansa]

Just received two new IOLincs. I quickly hooked one up to replace the questionable IOLinc that wasn't returning status to the ISY and guess what - problem was still there.

 

So on a whim I decided to rewire the leads and used the red wiring coming from the garage door sensor (instead of the green, which the SMH instructions say to use) and guess what - problem solved.

 

So was I supposed to use the black/green wires as per the SMH instructions? Or the black/red wires? What's the difference? Am I going to have to revert back to the black/green at some point for some unforseen reason?

 

It's all very confusing, but for the time being at least, all looks okay. Letcha know if/when things change.

[LeeG]

kaplansa

 

I just added an I/O Linc to my ISY using 2.8.4. The Admin Console shows the Sensor node changing status as the Sensor connection is opened and closed against GND.

 

What ISY firmware level are you using.

 

Did you use Auto Discovery when adding the I/O Linc

 

What I/O Linc revision does the Admin Console display for the I/O Linc

 

Does the Show Device Links Table function under Diagnostics show an entry for the I/O Linc that looks like this ....

 

0FF0 : E2 01 12.9F.E4 FF 1F 01

 

The 12.9F.E4 is my PLM address so these values will be different

 

Using the Event Viewer with Change level 3, do you see any trace activity as you open and close the Sensor circuit.

 

Wed 10/20/2010 12:15:35 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.BB.5A 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00)

 

Wed 10/20/2010 12:15:38 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.BB.5A 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Lee

[kaplansa]

@LeeG

 

I think I might be good to go now, I'm using the black/red wires though. What about you? You using red or green?

 

I'm using ISY 2.8.4, auto discovery, PLM 13.23.E5 v92, IOLinc 2450 v.36

[LeeG]

kaplansa

 

I am using a different magnetic switch. Whether you use the NO or NC contacts built into that magnetic switch is really just personal choice. Do you want an On command to indicate the door is Open or the door is Closed. Having worked with a number of users that have SHN EZIOxx devices monitoring garage doors (like an IO Linc but more Sensors and Relays in one device) some want it one way some want it the other. I think that is why Smarthome ships that combined magnetic switch. That way the one switch can be wired to support either situation (On Open or On Closed).

 

Lee

[LeeG]

kaplansa

 

Switching between the Red and Green wires simply changed the magnetic switch from NO to NC operation. The magnetic switch included with the kit has both a NO and NC reed switch built-in. Most magnetic switches are only NO or NC, not both. The only difference between using the Green and Red wire is that the IO Linc Sensor turns On when the garage door opens or turns On when the garage door closes. That could have reversed the logic but not whether you were getting Sensor signals from the IO Linc. Either wire should have shown up as a Sensor node status change under the Admin Console. Maybe the opposite On/Off to what you wanted but the state change should have been seen with either wire.

 

It could be the NO (green wire) part of the magnetic switch is not working do to a bad reed switch or broken wire.

 

There should be no reason to have to switch back to the green wire unless you just want to see if you continue to get status changes reflected in the Sensor node. There is an IO Linc option under the IO Linc Sensor node which the ISY supports that allows the On/Off commands to be reversed if needed.

 

Lee

 

EDIT: as a follow up for folks not familiar with the magnetic switch Smarthome includes with the IO Linc garage kit, it is two magnetic switches in one enclosure. There is a NO switch (Green wire) which is open until in proximity of the magnet at which time it closes (makes the circuit). There is also a NC switch (Red wire) which is closed until in proximity of the magnet at which point it opens (breaks the circuit).

 

Smarthome Quick Start guide directs the use of the Green wire NO contact. This arrangement results in the IO Linc Sensor being On when the magnet is in proximity to the magnetic switch. Using the Red wire NC contact would operate in the reverse. The IO Linc Sensor would be On until the magnetic is in proximity to the switch at which point the switch opens and turns the IO Linc Sensor Off.

 

Either of these configurations will result in the IO Linc sending On and Off commands to the ISY. It is simply a matter of whether you when you want the On command sent when the door is open or when the door is closed. Just to make things complex (if not already) the IO Linc has an option to reverse the On/Off commands. This means that no matter what wire is used (Red or Green) the On command can be made to represent whatever door condition you want it to represent, open or closed.

[kaplansa]

It happened again. IOLinc worked fine for exactly two days. Now they no longer send their status until manually queried so they're useless as far as creating programs around them in the ISY.I have this feeling that if I swap back to the green wire things might temporarily work again.

 

Keep in mind that when I bought these IOLincs, I used the green wire, and they worked fine for a couple of days until this problem surfaced. I then replaced on IOLinc with a brand new one to rule that out, didn't fix. Then I flipped the wiring from green to red and everything worked for two days. Now it doesn't work any longer and I'm thinking about switching back to the green wire.

 

I'm wondering if there's something wrong with the IOLincs that their internal sensors shut down after some trigger event and are 'reset' when I change wires? I'm also wondering why I feel like I'm one of the only people to experience this. I've gone through three IOLincs at this point all with the same issue. I have a fourth brand new one in a box, but I'm probably wasting my time installing that one.

 

Any more pointers? Anyone? Pulling my hair out...

[LeeG]

It is likely that when you switch wires you are unplugging the IO Linc. Try just unplugging the IO Linc for 1 minute without changing any wiring and see if that restores function.

 

Is the Green LED changing state when the door is opened and closed?

[kaplansa]

It gets weirder. Not only is the sensor signal not automatically updating, but it's coming in reversed when queried.

 

So here's what I know. When the IOLinc goes kaput, two things happen.

 

1) Stops automatically sending sensor status

2) Sensor status when queried may be reversed (off/open should on/closed, vice versa)

[LeeG]

When you changed the wires on the magnetic switch you changed from NO to NC (or maybe the reverse of that) which reverses the Open/Closed state of what the IO Linc is sensing.

[kaplansa]

It is likely that when you switch wires you are unplugging the IO Linc. Try just unplugging the IO Linc for 1 minute without changing any wiring and see if that restores function.

 

Is the Green LED changing state when the door is opened and closed?

 

Good idea. I tried. Unplugging and walking away to come back and plug in a couple of minutes later didn't change anything.

 

Guess - when I flipped back to the green wire, IOLinc works fine again!

 

So here are my observations:

 

1) IOLinc using green wire works fine for a couple of days. Sensor state is automatically sent to the ISY as they're supposed to.

2) Some trigger event possible throws the IOLinc into confusion mode. Sensor state is no longer automatically sent from the IOLinc. You have to manually query the IOLinc to get the correct sensor state.

3) Flipping from green to red wire sends the IOLinc back into "normal" working mode. Everything works fine.

4) Some trigger event possible throws the IOLinc into confusion mode again. Requires manual query to get state.

5) Perhaps because I'm using red at this point, state is reversed from what it should be when manually queried.

6) Flipped back to green wire. IOLinc works fine, but I need to uncheck "trigger reverse" in ISY to get the proper state reading.

 

See how long this lasts until I need to flip back to the red wire to "reset" the ISY.

 

Odd, isn't it? Thoughts?

[LeeG]

The Query result is not affected by the "Trigger Reverse" option so the Query results will be the opposite when moving from Red NC to Green NO.

 

The next time the IO Linc status is not changing see if the Green LED on the IO Linc is changing as the door is opened and closed.

 

If the Green LED does change as the door is opened and closed, run the Event Viewer with Change Level 3 in effect and see if any messages are traced as the door is opened and closed.