Motion Sensor Darkness Knob/Setting

[bktong]

Hi All,

I have read a few messages about the motion sensor and its darkness setting. I, too, have played long and hard with it. My conclusion is that the ISY timeout setting works but not the darkness setting. It doesn't matter what the setting is, it turns on.

 

Facts:

2420M Version 2.0

ISY version 2.8.x

Jumper: 3 & 5 are both pins

 

The UD owner manual has it "Darkness Sensitivity - The higher the value, the darker it needs to be for the unit

to see night. Default = 35. Range = 0 - 255."

I would think it means by setting to 200, it would mean pretty dark before it trigger On...Nop!

 

The darkness dial knob, what is the equivalent to turn clockwise? Is it same as decreasing the value on ISY darkness setting?

 

If I leave the jumper 5 off (on a single pin) and adjust the dial knob in the device, I can set to my desired darkness to trigger On.

 

So, does it mean ISY and the motion sensor is not compatible on darkness setting but works on timeout setting?

 

Billy

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Billy,

 

We basically follow the APIs as provided by SmartHome to communicate with the Motion Sensors (and other devices).

 

I really do not know what else we can do beyond conforming to specs unless the specs have changed without our knowledge.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[bktong]

Michel,

I'm not complaining but want to help to make the UD products better. And it's fine if the motion sensor darkness setting is not compatible with ISY; I'll just use the knob. Just want to confirm either way so I and others don't spend many hours playing with the ISY darkness adjustment. I would think UD wants to better its products as I do.

 

That's the reason I asked the questions in my first post.

 

Thanks.

Billy

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Billy,

 

I do apologize if my response sounded defensive. My motion sensor works and thus the response. I am going to ask one of our gurus to take a look at this and figure out what's going on.

 

Final question: is your motion sensor new or old?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[TJF1960]

Hi All,

I have read a few messages about the motion sensor and its darkness setting. I, too, have played long and hard with it. My conclusion is that the ISY timeout setting works but not the darkness setting. It doesn't matter what the setting is, it turns on.

 

Facts:

2420M Version 2.0

ISY version 2.8.x

Jumper: 3 & 5 are both pins

 

The UD owner manual has it "Darkness Sensitivity - The higher the value, the darker it needs to be for the unit

to see night. Default = 35. Range = 0 - 255."

I would think it means by setting to 200, it would mean pretty dark before it trigger On...Nop!

 

The darkness dial knob, what is the equivalent to turn clockwise? Is it same as decreasing the value on ISY darkness setting?

 

If I leave the jumper 5 off (on a single pin) and adjust the dial knob in the device, I can set to my desired darkness to trigger On.

 

So, does it mean ISY and the motion sensor is not compatible on darkness setting but works on timeout setting?

 

Billy

 

Hello Billy,

 

I am by no means a guru but when I first got the new ver 2.0 MS I played with them for a long time. I found that when I used the ISY to set the d/d settings and set the value to 0 the ms would never report dark. So it would send motion triggers day or night as it detected motion. So I can report the ISY could set the MS properly. That was back 9 or so months ago, not sure of the ISY version at that time. But I am running 2.8.2 now and those same MS are still operating day and night properly.

 

As I recall after making any adjustments I waited about 5 minutes before making any tests, and put the MS in a closed drawer so it was dark during the wait. Also while the MS is in motion trigger mode the d/d feature is ignored. The motion has to be in the non trigger mode for the d/d to change states.

 

I never did do any tests with the mechanical pots in the MS so I cannot report for that.

 

Tim

[bktong]

Tim,

So, you have a jumper on pin # 5?

 

If 0 never reported as dark, then 255 is always dark. I, too, have set it to zero. It seems to response to 0 and 255 but nothing in between.

 

I got up to 225 and I would think that should only trigger when it's pretty dark...Nop. Should I go higher?

 

Billy

[TJF1960]

Yes jumper 5 on.

 

I believe you can only set 0 - 255, no higher.

 

One more thing I should mention, it seems to me that when the ms version changed to v2.0 the d/d settings worked just the opposite as discribed in the ISY wiki. In other words a setting of 1 required more darkness to switch to dusk, while 254 required more light to switch to dawn. Like I said though it has been a long time but that is how I remember it.

 

I am not sure why yours isnt working correctly. Have you removed from the ISY, factory reset the MS, and re linked to the ISY? Do you have more than 1, all doing the same thing?

 

I don't have the time right now but in the next day or two I can pull one and relink and retest and report back if you like. But perhaps someone who has a fresher memory than I can chime in.

 

Tim

[bktong]

Tim,

That's what I had hoped UD would confirm.

 

1. knob turning clockwise is equivalent to decreasing or increasing in ISY?

2. I want pretty dark before the sensor trigger On.

 

Thanks.

Billy

[LeeG]

Billy,

 

For a V2 Motion Sensor the smaller the number the darker the condition.

 

TJF1960

 

Is your Motion Sensor V1 or V2?

 

Thanks

Lee

[bktong]

My is a V2.

Billy

[LeeG]

Billy,

 

Thanks. Looks like Smartlabs added some software controlled switches in the V2 Motion Sensors that control Night Only mode and On Only mode when Jumper 5 is in place. These software switches look like they control the respective functions independent of the individual hardware jumpers when Jumper 5 is in place. It will take a few days to sort this all out. I suggest you remove Jumper 5 for now and use the other individual Jumpers and pots for now. The software set Timeout value works because the default is to signal On/Off motion. The default for Night Only is to Operate Always so the Dark value does not seem to matter if the controlling software switch has not been set to Dark Only mode.

 

Not absolutely sure about all the combinations of what does or does not work when Jumper 5 is in place. More information to follow once I understand all the combinations.

 

Lee

[bktong]

LeeG,

 

Thanks, for V2 MS, I will leave jumper 5 off and use the pots.

 

I also have V1 MS. Do I set those with higher setting in ISY (for example, 250 if I want fairly dark before triggering ON)? V1's jumper 5 is not functional, right? Then the darkness setting works with V1?

 

Thanks,

Billy

[LeeG]

Billy,

 

According to the V1 Quick Start Guide Jumper 5 is not used for V1 Motion Sensor.

 

Unfortunately I don't have a V1 Motion Sensor to test against so anything about that revision would only be a guess. Perhaps someone with a V1 MS can provide input on the Dark level value (smaller/larger is Darker).

 

Lee

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi all,

 

Just wanted to post yet another personal thanks to LeeG who identified the missing pieces of the puzzle. In 2.8.3, you should have the ability to set the following:

1. Sensing mode

2. Night only mode

3. On only mode

 

Thanks again LeeG!!!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[bktong]

Michel and Lee,

 

So, I am not crazy that the MS with jumper 3 & 5 set is not working ? I should stop testing, right? Would it (darkness setting) work correctly if I leave jumper 3 off?

 

When will 2.8.3 be out?

 

Thanks.

Billy

[LeeG]

No need to do more testing on V2 MS. Night Only does not work with Jumper 5 installed. Jumper 3 will establish Night Only mode with Jumper 5 removed. The pot will adjust the Dark level with Jumper 5 removed.

[TJF1960]

Billy,

 

I just re-read thru this thread again to try and figure out why my v2 ms were working. Originally I noted you had jumper 3 and 5 On. I was thinking at the time that jumper 3 was the LED on/off jumper, didn't realize until LeeG's comment that jumper 3 was the night only jumper.

 

It was then that I realized I had never tested the ms with that jumper in place because I was interested in 24hr motion detection. I had been experimenting with the d/d settings of the ms for other programs.

 

Again, I apologize, I should have double checked what jumper 3 was before posting.

 

Tim

[bktong]

Tim,

No worries. I just want to have it working correctly instead everyone wasting hours trying to get it working. I hope UD will have it fixed and everyone can take full advantage of the MS.

 

Billy

[LeeG]

The Set Options update to control the programmatic settings of the Motion Sensor on 2.8.3 worked perfectly. I was able to switch between Night Only mode and Always On mode using the new Set Options. 2.8.3 install worked with no issues.

[SteveSBE]

Can someone summarize the proper jumpers I should use for controlling a v2 MS totally via ISY v2.8.3?

 

Jumper 1 - On or Off or Does not matter?

Jumper 2 - On or Off or Does not matter?

Jumper 3 - On or Off or Does not matter?

Jumper 4 - On or Off or Does not matter?

Jumper 5 - On or Off or Does not matter?

[SteveSBE]

Michel -

 

1. I don't understand how #1. Sensing mode works.

 

2. I cannot get the program that is supposed to turn on my 2476D dimmer on using my 2420M to work. Here is the code:

if
 Control 'Bath - Sensor' is switched On
then
 Set 'Bath Master' On

Do I need the 2 devices linked to do this?

Do I need to set up a scene to make this work?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

Hi all,

 

Just wanted to post yet another personal thanks to LeeG who identified the missing pieces of the puzzle. In 2.8.3, you should have the ability to set the following:

1. Sensing mode

2. Night only mode

3. On only mode

 

Thanks again LeeG!!!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[LeeG]

SteveSBE

 

1. If Occupancy Sense is not checked the Motion Sensor is strictly for detecting motion. The first motion detected sends an ON command and when the Timeout has expired, say 5 minutes later, an OFF command is sent. One ON command and one OFF command. The Timeout value is reset to the full Timeout value for any additional motion detected but no additional ON commands are sent.

 

When Occupancy Sense is checked it is functioning as an Occupancy Sensor and sends ON commands for every motion that is detected regardless of whether the Timeout value has expired. In this mode one is able to identify that someone is still moving in the detection area during the Timeout interval.

 

2.The two devices do not have to be linked for the Program to work. You do not need a Scene to have the Program work.

 

Under the motion sensor - Sensor node do you see this change to ON when motion is detected and OFF when the Timeout value has elapsed. If not invoke Tools |Diagnostics | Event Viewer and select Change level and set to level 3. Do you see entries being generated when motion is detected.

 

The Motion Sensor could be in Night Only mode and it is not dark enough to send motion indications.

 

Lee

[LeeG]

SteveSBE

 

For controlling the Motion Sensor from the ISY set Jumper 5. That is the only jumper needed. Jumper 1 might be necessary for Motion Sensor sensitivity as that is not controllable from software (ISY). Be sure to follow the Set button or motion detection procedure described in the Quick Start guide after setting Jumper 5.

 

 

Lee