Does Turning off a circuit breaker

[joefly]

I am having communication problems all of the sudden. I have recently added outletlinc and kepadlinc and switchlinc. I would think adding these additional insteon devices would make the communication more robust, but it is now problematic. Is this possible?

 

I also recently bought a new washer and dryer. Thinking that this maybe the source of the problem. I turned off the circuit breaker to these appliances and I am still having the same communication problems.

 

My questions are

1) Does turning off the circuit breaker to the appliance, eliminate the potential of the appliance to absorb or produce noise to affect the insteon network?

2) If the washer and dryer is not the source of the problem, Can one of the new insteon products be defective and causing the communication problem. If so, how do I track down the specific device without tearing out all the new devices?

 

Thanks

[LeeG]

joefly

 

Turning the circuit breakers Off removes that circuit and all attached appliances from the powerline. The washer and dryer will often be on different circuit breakers. You can also just unplug the new appliances to see if things improve.

 

There is a combination air gap/Set button on those devices. Pulling the air gap switch Outward removes power from the device and should effectively isolate it from the powerline.

 

Normally the more Insteon devices installed the better the communication because each Insteon device is a repeater. Make sure the Access Points are still plugged into the correct outlets. Sometimes they are unplugged to vacuum and either do not get plugged in again or are plugged into a different outlet. Any new appliances/devices besides the washer dryer? New TV, cell phone charger, UPS, etc.

 

Lee

[joefly]

HI Lee, thanks for the reply.

 

I used the breaker because the washer and dryer is stuck in a small space making removing the plug easy. I did shut off breaker for washer and dryer both.

 

I did also try the air gap switch on the keypad and switchlincs.

 

Both doing the airgap and breaker did not help.

 

However, this morning when I went into ISY I was able to write updates to a couple devices which I could not a couple nights ago. Even before doing the airgap trial.

 

I was not able to test the wall outletlinc as it seems it does not have a airgpap function. So maybe the outletlinc are defective?

 

I was able to solve one of my problems, when the motion linc triggers, it turns on a series of scenes, One of them was not responding, I changed the order to the one in question to be first and it seems to work.

 

So right now, it seems to be working. But we will see if this last as it seems flaky.

 

The problem remaining now is that I did a scene test function on the diagnostic menu. It does show success on the light, but the linked keypad buttons failed and the corresponding remotelincs are ignored.. Is this normal of the test?

 

Thu 12/23/2010 01:11:53 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 10 13 00 06

 

Thu 12/23/2010 01:11:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.73.8F 0F.43.D0 63 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

 

Thu 12/23/2010 01:11:54 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.73.8F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

----- 1 - Living Room StandLighting Test Results -----

[ignore] B1 - Living Stand (A 35 CB 1)

[succeeded] Living Standing (F 73 8F 1)

[Failed] Din3 - Living Stand (F C0 6A 3)

[ignore] S1 - Living Stand (A 38 2D 1)

[Failed] Bed3 - Living Stand (16 79 42 3)

----- 1 - Living Room StandLighting Test Results -----

Thu 12/23/2010 01:12:38 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.10 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

[LeeG]

joefly

 

The RemoteLinc is a Controller only (no Responder function). There is nothing for a Scene to Control.

 

The KeypadLinc buttons failing is not normal. There is some Insteon communication problem. Access Points not coupling, noise, signal attenuation, etc.

 

From a Scene test where KPL buttons are either a Controller (and Responder by default) or Responder only.

 

----- SceneKPL3BGtoKPLWhiteBG Test Results -----

[succeeded] KeypadLinc White Box - G (C 8C 3B 7)

[succeeded] KeypadLinc-3 - G (14 71 3C 7)

----- SceneKPL3BGtoKPLWhiteBG Test Results -----

Thu 12/23/2010 02:10:44 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.19 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Lee

[joefly]

Sure enough, strange communication problems came back.

 

I air gaped the two kepadlincs thinking that maybe they are the problem. But they are not. Problems still exist.

 

Is there are way to Air Gap outletlincs as they are the only potential problems left?

 

Or do you have any other suggestions on how to isolate this problem. I have only added them and can't think of any other devices or environment changes. FYI, I have also 3 access points spread out in a small apartment.

 

Thanks

[LeeG]

joefly

 

I checked the Quick Start Guide and the online User Guide and found no method for removing power from the OutletLinc at the OutletLinc.

 

Unfortunately there are no good independent tools for analyzing the Insteon powerline communication. Some things to check ...

 

Repeat the Access Point Set button test that verifies they are on opposite 120V legs and receiving each other’s RF signals. If device to device control is working reliably but ISY Scene control is not, things such as PC and/or UPS power supplies are good sources of signal attenuation. A good way to test this is to plug the ISY PLM into a good 3 wire extension cord and move the PLM plug point as far away from the PC/UPS as possible.

 

Analysis is basically a process of elimination. Unplug devices (turning Off is not enough). It could be the OutletLincs but I would be surprised if they are the cause unless indirectly because they are controlling CFLs, etc.

 

 

Lee

[ergodic]

First, I'd check if you have any V.35 Switchlincs - this is EXACTLY the way that problem showed up for me. Though of course this also could just be another case of Insteon communication woes.

 

If the V.35 issue isn't it, what I'd probably do is remove the new Insteon devices from any scenes and the ISY, and then physically disconnect the line wire to them and temporarily cap the line with a wire nut. This puts you back to where you were.

 

Then open the ISY console, open the event viewer to show all communication, and do a query-all on my-lighting and time it. Comm problems - even random ones - will show as long pauses as the ISY and Insteon wait for responses and retry. Time the query-all a couple of times to get a typical average. If things are working OK the event viewer should more or less just click along. The occasional retry is no problem but if it is constantly stalling or timing out you have a problem with your existing install.

 

For me, in my little 2000 sq. ft. house and about 70 devices, a query-all takes about 30 seconds, 45 seconds max. Consistently more than that and I know I've made trouble somewhere.

 

Now, hook the devices back in one by one, and try the query-all again. Do it with the device on as well as off to determine if it is the connected load that is causing noise to backfeed into the line.

 

If you find one device that seems to be causing problems or is having problems, do a hard reset on it and then try to reprogram it with a restore from the ISY console. A restore will send a lot of commands to that device (depending on device type and scene count). But again, if you watch in event viewer they should just click right along. If there are long pauses or failure, something's wrong.

[joefly]

Hi Guys, Thanks and just wanted to update. I started removing devices either through delinking from ISY or physically resetting them. First, I did a total relink to the access point. Then I did a master factory reset on the KPL and redid all the linking. Luckily I do not have that many. So Basically I am able to figure out there is nothing wrong with the hardware. I am guessing that I did an improper linking of the devices to ISY which was probably the main problem. I have no idea which step I did wrong previously. But redoing the linking to ISY seems to help a great deal.

 

So all systems are basically working now, with an occasional missed signal, but i am guessing that is due to the occasional noise in the wires. So no biggie..

 

Thanks