KeyPadLinc question

[dth122]

I'm currently using a KeyPadLinc in 8-button mode. Is there a way that I can use button A to control a scene that doesn't include the load that I have connected to the integrated dimmer? I've tried including the integrated dimmer at a 0% level, but then it forces that level for all of the scenes that dimmer is part of. If I could either use A without the integrated dimmer or if I could set the levels independently for each scene the dimmer is part of, that would solve my problem.

 

Any hints?

 

Thanks.

- Dave

[Sub-Routine]

Hello Dave,

 

Button 1 will always include the load on a KPL.

 

The new KeypadLincs (v2.5+) are supposed to allow you to set different levels for the load from the secondary buttons. With the older KPLs you will have to use a button as a trigger and have the ISY call the scene.

 

Rand

[yardman 49]

Hello Dave:

 

What you want to do should work, I think.

 

First, through the ISY make a group (scene) and add the devices that you want to be Responders. Then add KPL A last as a Controller.

 

Then in the ISY GUI navigate to that scene, and find the KPL A controller. It will be in red italics. Click on that entry. You will then see the individual levels for the Responder devices. Set the levels that you want for each device, as well as the desired ramp rate for each device (if applicable).

 

That should take care of it. When you then push KPL A to "On", those linked devices should also come on to their desired levels. They should also go off when you turn KPL A to Off.

 

To set the "On" level for the local KPL A load, you can simply go to the KPL A device itself under "My Lighting", drag the slider on that view to set the KPL A level, then walk over to the KPL A and do a single quick push on the air-gap button. That shouid set the local level. You can also perform an "air-gap" to set the local level. If you do the "air-gap" rather than pushing it, this will also save whatever KPL A local ramp rate that you have set through the ISY.

 

Please let us know how this works.

 

 

Best wishes,

[yardman 49]

Hello Dave:

 

I just reread you post, and realized that I didn't exactly answer your question correctly.

 

You stated that you want to "use button A to control a scene that doesn't include the load that I have connected to the integrated dimmer".

 

Wow, this is making my head spin! So you actually have a load connected to the KPL A dimmer, but you don't want the load to come on when you press the KPL A button, but rather you want other lights to come on?

 

So then how exactly would you ever turn that load on at all?????

 

You could use my explanation that I gave previously, but then simply detach the load from the red wire on the KPL. Be certain to then cap off the red wire on the KPL. Then the load will never turn on, but the KPL with control other lights.

 

I don't think that you've explained everything to us totally. What exactly are you trying to do?

 

One last caveat: if the scene that you are controlling with KPL A includes some of the secondary buttons from the same KPL, you will not be able to control them. But you can write a Program through the ISY that could turn them on or off in response to KPL A being turned on or off.

 

Best wishes

[Sub-Routine]

Actually Frank, the KPL is the one device that doesn't require a reset when the ISY changes the local level and rate.

 

Dave, for the other buttons to use a different level and ramp rate for the KPL load you will need to create the scene including the KPL load and the KPL button as Responders. Then create two programs. In these examples the KPL button is 'Family Room KPL 2' and the scene is 'Living Room - Talk'.

 

If
       Control 'Family Room KPL 2' is switched On

Then
       Set Scene 'Living Room - Talk' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

If
       Control 'Family Room KPL 2' is switched Off

Then
       Set Scene 'Living Room - Talk' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Save your changes and try it out. There will be a slight delay as the ISY processes the button press.

 

Rand

[yardman 49]

Hello Rand:

 

You wrote:

 

Actually Frank, the KPL is the one device that doesn't require a reset when the ISY changes the local level and rate.

 

Thanks for that tidbit of information! I noticed a weird behavior the other day involving a KPL A button, and this explains what happened. You are a wealth of information!

 

But maybe you have been talking to Dave directly, or my brain is foggy today. It seemed that what Dave was asking was that he wanted KPL A to be a scene controller, but wants it to turn on a scene without actually turning on its own load. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

Best wishes,

[Sub-Routine]

Frank, I haven't been talking to Dave. Perhaps I interpreted it wrong but what I read is:

 

1. He wants to use button 1 without affecting the load. Alternately he will set the local level to 0.

2 He wants to use the secondary buttons to control scenes that include the KPL load at various levels.

 

Answers:

1. He has to set the local level to 0.

2. To use the other buttons to turn on the load he can use Scenes and Programs in the ISY triggered by those buttons.

 

Before the ISY he would have no choice other than to disconnect the load from the KPL and connect it to an InlineLinc (or SwitchLinc, etc.)

 

Rand

[dth122]

Wow - a lot of activity in a short time to answer a basic question... To clarify:

 

I've attached a seldom-used load to the KPL dimmer and consider button A the prime location for the main (most often) used scene. Hence, I can re-wire to remove the load from the KPL dimmer (and require adding another dimmer somewhere else), or figure out a way around this. I think using the programming is the best way.

 

Is the issue with on level being the same in all scenes an anomaly in just the KPL dimmer, or all Insteon dimmers?

 

Thanks for the help so far.

- Dave

[Sub-Routine]

Dave,

 

Wow - a lot of activity in a short time to answer a basic question...

 

Lunchtime

 

Is the issue with on level being the same in all scenes an anomaly in just the KPL dimmer, or all Insteon dimmers?

 

The KeypadLinc only has the same on level in scenes that are controlled by it's own buttons. This is supposed to be corrected in the new KPLs.

 

If you use a different Controller you can set the KPL to whatever level you like. That is why the ISY can be used as a work around.

 

The KPL is the only multi button Insteon controller that has a load. SwitchLincs are indeed limited to one on level for their one button

 

Rand

[yardman 49]

Wow - a lot of activity in a short time to answer a basic question... To clarify:

 

I've attached a seldom-used load to the KPL dimmer and consider button A the prime location for the main (most often) used scene. Hence, I can re-wire to remove the load from the KPL dimmer (and require adding another dimmer somewhere else), or figure out a way around this. I think using the programming is the best way.

 

Is the issue with on level being the same in all scenes an anomaly in just the KPL dimmer, or all Insteon dimmers?

 

Thanks for the help so far.

- Dave

 

 

Hello Dave:

 

I guess that I'm still a little confused about what you are asking, so please forgive my repeated postings on this subject. I figured that I would cover all of the various scenarios as to what you are trying to accomplish.

 

Rand's reply really helped clear up for me what I think you were asking.

 

As Rand has stated, you can include the KPL A (a.ka. "button 1", "primary button", "load button") in any scene as a responder from another Insteon controller (another KPL, Switchlinc or Togglelinc, Remoterlinc, etc) and you can program its "on" level to be whatever you want for that individual scene.

 

If you are not certain how to do this, please feel free to respond back and we can explain it.

 

However, if you walk up to said KPL A and push it "on", even if it is controlling other devices in a scene, it can only come on at one level, i.e., the level that it is set at locally.

 

All Insteon controllers work the same way, as far as I know.

 

____________________________________________

 

So for instance, in my kitchen I have 2 KPL's. Both KPLs have some of their buttons being in the same scenes. So for instance "KPL Main" has button A controlling the load of the "Main kitchen can lights scene". Conversely, "KPL Sink" has button B also controlling the "Main kitchen can lights scene".

 

I can walk into the kitchen, press button A on KPL Main, and the main can lights will come on at 55%. I can also walk to the KPL near the sink, and press button B, and the main can lights will also come on at 55%, but only because I have set them to do so. I could have that button set at a different level if I chose, and say, have my main cans come on at 100%, while pressing button A on the KPL Main would still give a 55% level.

 

In this ISY-created scene, both KPL Main Button A, and KPL Sink Button B are members of the same scene, and are both entered as .controllers

 

___________________________________________________

 

 

On the other hand, I have that same "KPL Main Button A" in many other scenes as a responder. So for instance, from my bedroom I can do a "whole house on" from the Controlinc that turns almost all of my Insteon devices on. On that scene, I can have the "KPL Main Button A" controlling the main kitchen cans come on at 100%, or 75%, or whatever I choose.

 

Likewise, I have a Remotelinc in the living room, where I have some of the kitchen lights included in a scene. When I press that button, I have the "KPL Main Button A" controlling the kitchen main cans come on at 15%.

 

 

So as you see, I can have the load connected to KPL Button A come on at whatever level I desire from as many scenes as I care to create.

 

____________________________________________________

 

 

Now as Rand has already stated, the KPL secondaries, in versions of the KPL prior to 1.5, don't have the ability to control their local primary button at differing load levels. Thankfully, even if you have an earlier version of the KPL (which is what most of us have), you can still accomplish what you want via an ISY "program". The response won't be as quick as an actual device-linked "scene", but will still be able to do what you want.

 

____________________________________________________

 

 

Another alternate work around: could you replace the KPL with a Switchlinc or Togglelinc, and then put in the KPL in another location where you don't need it to control a load? Possible you could just put in a rework box into your wall, and then tap into any available switch or outlet box to get power for the KPL.

 

Then you could cap the load on the KPL, and use all eight buttons to control any scenes that you desire!

 

 

 

I hope that some of this is helpful.

 

 

Best wishes,

[dth122]

Thanks for the helpful and thorough response. This has clarified a lot of my questions. I think, in the end, the best thing to do is to switch around the way I have my circuits wired and put something else on the KPL dimmer. I can also fix it in an ISY program, and may do that instead. Good to know I have options.

 

Now as Rand has already stated, the KPL secondaries, in versions of the KPL prior to 1.5, don't have the ability to control their local primary button at differing load levels. Thankfully, even if you have an earlier version of the KPL (which is what most of us have), you can still accomplish what you want via an ISY "program". The response won't be as quick as an actual device-linked "scene", but will still be able to do what you want.

 

I think this is the key for me. I only have 1 KPL, so I'm kind of stuck here. The ISY is a great work-around though. Incidentally, when the ISY lists my KPL as v29. What does this mean? It's relatively new, but seems to behave as a "pre-v1.5" as you mention above. Did Smarthome juggle the version number system at some point?

 

Another alternate work around: could you replace the KPL with a Switchlinc or Togglelinc, and then put in the KPL in another location where you don't need it to control a load? Possible you could just put in a rework box into your wall, and then tap into any available switch or outlet box to get power for the KPL.

 

No... really need all 8 buttons of the KPL where they are. I guess I could add SwitchLinc in the middle somewhere, but I think that the two options above (changing the loads and ISY programming) will get me where I need to be without rewiring.

 

Thanks.

- Dave

[yardman 49]

Hello David:

 

You wrote:

 

Incidentally, when the ISY lists my KPL as v29. What does this mean? It's relatively new, but seems to behave as a "pre-v1.5" as you mention above. Did Smarthome juggle the version number system at some point?

 

I don't have any knowledge as to what the "v.29" means that shows up in the ISY device GUI. All my KPLs are version 1.4. But they also show as "v.29" in the ISY.

 

You can see the version number on the face of the KPL housing, right underneath your wallplate.

 

For the device that you're trying to control with the KPL primary button: any chance that you could use an InlinceLinc for that device?

 

Best wishes,

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Dave,

 

I think this is the key for me. I only have 1 KPL, so I'm kind of stuck here. The ISY is a great work-around though. Incidentally, when the ISY lists my KPL as v29. What does this mean? It's relatively new, but seems to behave as a "pre-v1.5" as you mention above. Did Smarthome juggle the version number system at some point?

 

No. It behaves the same simply because we have not yet added support for the extra features of KPL 1.5+.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Sub-Routine]

My KPL firm 1.2 reports as v.28. I have a firmware 1.5 that ISY says is v.2A.

 

I don't know what is in between.

 

Rand

[MikeB]

My KPL Dimmer v1.5s show as v.2A as well.

 

Michel once told me the version # that the ISY shows is what the device reports when its firmware is queried. Not sure why SmartHome maintains 2 separate version #s, but it does make it a bit confusing.