2450 I/O Linc Garage Door Status Reporting Question

[sanders2222]

For a couple of years I have had a simple program and scene that monitors the garage doors (open or closed).

Program 'Garage Open'
If
       Control '_Garage / _Garage Door 13.32.1D-Sensor' is switched On
   And Control '_Garage / _Garage Door 13.32.1D-Sensor' is not switched Off
Then
       Run Program 'Flag Garage' (Then Path)
       Set Scene 'Utility Room / Garage Door' On
       Repeat 5 times
          Wait  30 minutes 
          Run Program 'Garage Door Open' (Then Path)
          Run Program 'FlashLights' (Then Path)
Else
       Run Program 'Flag Garage' (Else Path)
       Set Scene 'Utility Room / Garage Door' Off
       Run Program 'Garage Door Open' (Else Path)
       Run Program 'Garage Main Timer' (Else Path)

The I/O trigger is ON when the doors are open. My convoluted logic controls a KPL button in the house that glows ON when the door is open. Plus, if the door is open more than 30 minutes the lights will flash and I get a text message.

 

All this has worked as designed except lately I've noticed the Admin Console status of the I/O link sometimes is reporting ON even when the door is closed, the KPL button in the scene is OFF and the program status is false.

 

Based on my understanding of the program language, why is this happening? If the 'Control' is switched OFF and the program is reporting false, how does the status of the 2450 become ON again when the door remains closed? Why doesn't this status change trigger this program? What am I missing?

[LeeG]

sanders2222

 

What is the state of the IO Linc Green LED when things are not in sync?

 

Is the IO Linc Green LED normally On or Off when the door is closed?

 

Lee

[sanders2222]

Thanks for the response LeeG. You've certainly helped solve a number of my Insteon issues/problems and you're diagnosis and response is always right on. I will check for that next time I see it happen.

 

To add to the above, my system is set up so a green LED is displayed whenever my doors are closed. I have one 2450 that is hooked up to 2 door's magnetic switches, in series. If either door is opened, the green LED goes OFF and the KPL button lights up.

 

On at least one occasion, I noticed I could open the door (when the console showed my I/O Linc was ON) and the KPL would go from OFF to ON like it's suppose to. It's as though the ISY received a phantom ON signal that was not registered in the scene. This is puzzling as I have never received a notification when the doors are closed and my warning system has been very dependable.

 

Conversely, I have found (maybe a handful of times over a 2 year period) that I could close the doors and KPL button would not turn OFF. The few times this has happened I found I could start to re-open the door and close it again. That would turn the KPL OFF. So that makes me think I may have an intermittent issue with one of magnetic contacts. I'll be sure to check the green LED next time this happens.

[LeeG]

sanders2222

 

From the IO Linc perspective the Sensor is ON when the door is closed. This is what the Green LED being ON indicates when the door is closed. For the posted Program to work the IO Linc must have the Trigger Reverse option set. This causes the IO Linc to send an OFF command when the Sensor turns ON (door closed) and send an ON command when the Sensor turns OFF (door open).

 

This arrangement works fine but does expose one situation. If the IO Linc is Queried the actual state of the Sensor is returned, not the reverse indication the Trigger Reverse option causes. When the door closes and the Sensor turns ON (Green LED ON) an Off command is sent to the ISY because of the Trigger Reverse option. If the IO Linc is Queried an ON status is returned (opposite from the last command sent from the IO LINC) because the Senor is actually ON.

 

The bottom line is the IO Linc should not be Queried when the Trigger Reverse option is used. Use of Query puts the IO Linc Sensor state in the ISY out of sync with the commands that are normally received. This is why I always recommend NOT using Trigger Reverse. If you used the Smarthome garage kit the magnetic sensors have a NO and NC magnetic contact. Simply use the other contact from what is currently used and stop using the Trigger Reverse.

 

Cannot say this is your problem but it is a common situation when using Trigger Reverse and Query.

 

Lee

[sanders2222]

Thanks LeeG, you nailed it. Any query does return an ON status even though my doors are closed. The scene is not controlled by the query, therefore is not effected by this status.

 

Since I monitor things when away, I plan to follow your recommendation and change the I/O trigger back so the green LED is ON when the doors are open. Unfortunately, the status of the I/O will show ON when the doors are closed, which is backwards from my perspective, but at least the console will be in sync with what happens.

 

Thanks again for your help!

[LeeG]

sanders2222

 

If the magnetic switches are changed AND the Trigger Reverse option is turned OFF, the Sensor will be physically ON when the door is open (opposite of today) but the ON/OFF commands will also be reversed because of the change to the Trigger Reverse option being done at the same time.

 

When the door is open the Sensor will show ON in the Admin Console (Green LED will be ON), the KPL button will be ON, etc. When the door is closed the Sensor will show OFF in the Admin Console (Green LED will be OFF), the KPL button will be OFF, etc.

 

By changing both the magnetic switches from NC to NO (or maybe the reverse of that) and change the Trigger Reverse option, the effect is to keep the same ON command for door open, OFF command for door closed relation you have today and the Query will return the same result. The Query will return ON when the door is open and OFF when the door is closed.

 

There is one addition change that is required. With two doors being monitored by a single IO Linc, with the magnetic switches in series today, when the magnetic switches are changed they will have to be wired in parallel. Today if either switch is open (either door is open) the Sensor no longer sees GND. When the magnetic switches are changed, when either switch is closed (either door open) the Sensor needs to see GND which requires the magnetic switches to be in parallel.

 

It sounds a little complex but when all the changes are implemented, when either door is open, the Sensor will show ON in the Admin Console and the KPL button LED will be ON. No Program changes are required because the effect of changing the magnetic switches and changing the Trigger Reverse option at the same time keeps the commands issued by the IO Linc for door open/closed remains the same.

 

Lee

[sanders2222]

WOW! You're suggestion to swap out my magnetic contacts to NO (and wiring them parallel) will give me the set up and results I am looking for. Thanks for the tip.

 

UD should include this information re: the behavior of the IO Link and system queries in the Garage door WIKI as another option.

[LeeG]

sanders2222

 

Be careful if purchasing new switches. The industry standard nomenclature for NO/NC magnetic switches refers to their state when the magnet is away from the reed switch. That means you need a NC magnetic switch, closed when the magnet is away from the reed. Unfortunately some companies (including some of the switches Smarthome adversities) are labeled the opposite. Some of their NC magnetic switches are open when the magnet is away from the reed.

 

The nice aspect of the wide gap magnetic switch that Smarthome distributes with the Garage Kit is the switch contains both a NO and NC switch so the same switch will give a Sensor On or Sensor Off with the door closed depending on which side of the switch is actually used.

 

Lee

[Brian H]

I have also found the NC and NO specifications different between security and electronic industry descriptions.

As a Electronic Technician. I would call a NC switch closed with no magnet.

In a security system it is closed with the magnet. As that is the unviolated zone condition.