ISY showing v.00 for most devices

[Zick]

I didn't really notice this when I initially setup my network but all of my 2475S, 2475D, 2486S, & some 2486D, 2476S, 2476D show up in ISY with version V.00

The rest (2476D, 2476S, 2486D, show up with V.37 and one V.35 that I need to look into replacing.

 

Now for the most part I don't have too many issues with my network but wondering what possible if any negative effects having them listed as V.00 might cause?

[LeeG]

Zick

 

The v00 is generally the result of selecting the Device Type when adding a device rather than using Auto Discover. I think it best to use Auto Discover except for those devices than must be added specifying the device type such as the Simplehomenet devices for example. Motion Sensors and TriggerLincs are more examples of devices that require the Device Type be selected when adding them to the ISY.

 

Lee

[Zick]

Well this is not looking good.

 

I started removing a couple devices from ISY and readding them using the "Auto Discovery" mode and they added successfully but so far two are V.35 and I still have a lot more to go but most have links that I'm afraid might be messed up or lost if I remove and readd them.

 

 

I've also been meaning to ask this question but just never got around to it.

Just how long should it typically take to add, remove, or even just link a device? Maybe it's me but it seems to take a very long time to do these items.

 

For example, I just removed an 8 keypad linc that did not have any links setup and it took approx 9 1/2 minutes.

Just did a 2476S and it took approx 1 1/2 to 2 minutes to remove and another 1 1/2 to 2 minutes to readd.

[LeeG]

Deleting a device involves removing all references in Programs as well as Scenes (Controller and Responder). Either there were references to the KPL (Program and Scene) or perhaps communications problems that resulted in consistent timeouts and retries to complete the Delete.

 

The V35 SwitchLincs are likely candidates for replacement. They are well documented sources of communications problems.

[Zick]

Do you think I will lose my links if I delete a device and then readd it with the option "Add devices found in links and keep existing links"?

 

Thanks

[LeeG]

"Do you think I will lose my links if I delete a device"

 

Yes. I've seen a post by UDI that indicates Deleting a device marks the first link record with the 00 End of File marker which effectively removes all link records. The device will look empty should the link record database be read later on.

[jwagner010]

I have two Remotelinc's that show version 00. Before I delete them and add them back, does anyone know if Remotelincs have a limitation with ISY and are always added as ver 00? I dont want to delete and add them back to only find out they are listed as ver 00 again.

 

It would be nice if the ISY could automatically query a device and update the version number of the device, but I know there will be many higher prioritity enhancements on the list.

[LeeG]

The ISY User Guide describes the linking of the RemoteLinc. Under Link Management | Link a RemoteLinc, the RemoteLinc is put into linking mode, followed by a popup that looks much like the New INSTEON Device popup with the RemoteLinc Device Type already filled in. My RemoteLinc shows v00 which I believe is the result of having the Device Type field filled in (requirement of RemoteLinc).

 

I do not think there is a reason to delete and add the RemoteLinc again as it will still be v00.

[Zick]

"Do you think I will lose my links if I delete a device"

 

Yes. I've seen a post by UDI that indicates Deleting a device marks the first link record with the 00 End of File marker which effectively removes all link records. The device will look empty should the link record database be read later on.

 

Well that's disconcerting. So what exactly is the point of using the option "Add devices found in links and keep existing links" when you add a device then?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Zick,

 

I am not sure what you are referring to.

 

What LeeG is saying is that if you DELETE a device from ISY, then ISY DELETES all links from it.

 

If you have devices that have never been registered and then deleted from ISY, then you can use those options during linking/registration of the device to ISY.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Zick]

I guess the way I read the option when adding a device, is that if the device has links in it's table that it will try and keep those links and re-add them back into the admin console or ISY/PLM table.

 

I didn't realize that when you delete a device from the admin console, that it clears out all the links on the devices table as well.

 

I have about ~60 devices that are showing v.00 and they all have multiple links setup in them. I was hoping for a way that I could delete them from the admin console and then readd them back in using the "auto discovery" method to get the correct version showing and try and save the links without having to basically start all over again. Cause that is going to take a very long time to do.

 

 

Thanks

[LeeG]

Zick

 

Try pulling the air gap switch and then Delete. This will create a comm error during delete because the device cannot be access to clear the link database. Never tried that but if the Delete does complete as far as the ISY is concerned , then add it back with the option to keep existing links. Try one device only to see what the results are.

 

Lee

[Zick]

Thank you Lee, I will give this a try tonight!

In theory it sounds good.

[Zick]

Ok, so not a good idea.

 

I was able to pull the air gap on the device and then delete it off the console just fine. Pushed the air gap back in and tried re-adding it back into the console and it did not go so well.

When I started up the console I noticed that I didn't get my usual comm error message for the 4 devices I know aren't connected. I tried to add the device anyways and nothing seemed to happen. So I shut the console down and relaunched it and that's when the system started initilizing and got all messed up.

It seemed to reload all the devices and created a bunch of extra scenes with just numbers and duplicate devices.

Now when I try launching it, I got a java error message.

 

I let it sit for a while and now it launches OK, but I have 5 extra scenes (scene 105, 106, 148, 227, 24). Not sure why those got created?

So I'm going through and deleting the extra scenes now.

 

 

My one device I delete did get readded but the links are broken.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Zick,

 

ISY tries to reconstruct everything based on available devices and configurations in ISY. So, let's say you had a scene with 3 devices/controllers:

1. You removed 2 of them with set button out. ISY now thinks that this scene has only one device

2. You add back the device; but since the device was not programmed by ISY to be removed from the scene, the device still thinks that it's part of a scene with 2 other controllers. But, ISY cannot find such as scene, so it assumes that one should be created

 

I totally understand your desire NOT have 00 as the firmware version. This said, except for very specific versions of specific devices (e.g. KPL v2 which is obsolete), ISY does not use the version information.

 

As such, if you do not have any specific questions/problems, please leave the system alone and as is unless you would like to rebuild the whole thing from scratch (unfortunately).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Zick]

Hi Michel,

 

As such, if you do not have any specific questions/problems, please leave the system alone and as is unless you would like to rebuild the whole thing from scratch (unfortunately).

Well my initial reason for getting started down this path was that I was trying to see how many devices I had that are V.35. And that's when I started noticing all the V.00 devices.

I do have some comm issues and figured I start here to see if these v.35 devices are giving me issues.

 

 

ISY tries to reconstruct everything based on available devices and configurations in ISY. So, let's say you had a scene with 3 devices/controllers:

1. You removed 2 of them with set button out. ISY now thinks that this scene has only one device

2. You add back the device; but since the device was not programmed by ISY to be removed from the scene, the device still thinks that it's part of a scene with 2 other controllers. But, ISY cannot find such as scene, so it assumes that one should be created

 

I understand your explanation but I don't quite understand why it's setup to do this. In my case I only removed one device that was a responder to one scene. When trying to add it back it, ISY recreated 4 new scenes with some have many many devices linked to them. Plus the device I added back in still didn't even work so all of those extra scenes ISY created were a waste of time.

[LeeG]

Zick

 

Sorry the air gap approach did not work. Michel is correct in that if your system is not broken don't fix it. However, I really disagree with leaving it alone. Some folks install today, use as is and never tweak, expand, change, advance, improve, you get the point. On the other hand many folks using an ISY got the device to tweak, expand, change, advance, improve. That is the great thing about the ISY. Advances can be done incrementally. Programs generated to do new things, approaches tweaked to make them more useful in your specific environment.

 

To that end, hardly a week goes by that the question is not asked, what firmware level is the device(s). Is it late enough to have the feature in question, as long as the v35 SwitchLinc problem has been around it is still being uncovered. When a problem surfaces can it be traced to a particular firmware. Knowing the device firmware level is too important not to know it if possible. As painful as it will be, take whatever action is necessary to identify the firmware level in the devices now. Yes, you can wait until the question has to be answered. That normally means doing things during diagnosis that one would prefer not to do. When a problem surfaces the last thing one wants to do is make wholesale changes simply to collect information, IMO.

 

I have never understood why the device firmware level is not obtained when the Device Type is specified (assuming the device will supply it). The ISY issues the command to pull that information when Auto Discover is specified, that same command can be issued when a specific Device Type is selected (soap box, sorry).

 

Bottom line, the choice is yours.

 

Again, sorry the air gap did not help.

 

Lee

[LeeG]

Zick

 

I do not use the option to keep existing links so some of this will be speculation. Not speculation is that a single ISY Scene is made of multiple Insteon Scenes. When pulling links from a device only the physical device link relationship can be identified. Logically how those links might fit into an ISY Scene is unknown. Scenes that are created this way are numbered as the ISY has no way of assigning meaningful Scene names.

 

Keeping existing links preserves the links in the device but does still requires assigning names to the Scenes. The following is speculation. Likely devices that are cross linked, where a single ISY Scene consists of multiple Insteon Scenes (that part is not speculation) will result in multiple numbered Scenes which are the individual Insteon Scenes. The few devices I have tried that option with just to see what happens generated that result. The logic to try and construct a single ISY Scene from the complexities that exist when looking at Insteon Scenes purely from the physical link perspective is not part of keeping existing links. There is just no way to tell from the physical link record what Insteon Scenes should be combined into an ISY Scene let alone which ISY Scene it might relate to.

 

More reasons why creating the ISY Scenes after the devices have been readded without links is a better choice. Easy for me to say, I’m not doing the work.

 

Lee