New Two Wire Dimmer

[Brian H]

There is a preorder page on the Smarthome Sales page for a 2474DWH. Two wires dimmer. Steals power through the load and does not use a Neutral power lead. RF communications only NO X!0 support.

http://www.smarthome.com/2474DWH/Switch ... ite/p.aspx

[andyf0]

Is Insteon heading the way of Z-Wave and Zigbee with RF Only? Also, not so good with use with LED or CFL bulbs, it needs a high wattage load as used with an incandescent light.

[LeeG]

Power is being drawn through the load so LEDs will likely never work with this device. Can't drawn enough power through a LED to power another device. Doubt this implies any change in Insteon direction regarding the mesh network.

[Brian H]

Since it steals power through the load and does not use a neutral. The limitations are about what I expected.

CFL and other bulbs that are not incandescent don't power the electronics in the switches properly. The X10 two wire switches have almost the same limitations except they can extract the commands from the power lines. Smartlabs chose RF only.

[Teken]

Smartlabs chose RF only.

 

That had me scratching my head as well . . .

 

Teken . . .

[apostolakisl]

I do wonder how it works.

 

I suppose it allows a trickle of power to go through the load to get to neutral. However, a trickle of power on an LED light might just turn it on! I don't suppose they could be trickling to ground as this would almost certainly be banned.

 

The only other possibility is battery power, but I see no mention of any battery so I assume there isn't one. But it could have a rechargable battery that charges while the load is on. Pretty sure that isn't the case.

[Xathros]

I do wonder how it works.

 

I suppose it allows a trickle of power to go through the load to get to neutral.

 

Exactly!

 

-Xathros

[ELA]

Since it steals power through the load and does not use a neutral. The limitations are about what I expected.

. The X10 two wire switches have almost the same limitations except they can extract the commands from the power lines. Smartlabs chose RF only.

 

Hi Brian,

Initially I thought it made sense that they did not support power line comms but now I am a little confused as to how the X-10 you mentioned worked?

 

How did the older X-10 (2 wire) switches handle power line comms when they were in the ON position?

I can understand "stealing" power thru the load when the switch is not on ( if load is low enough impedance).

But how would it get power and be able to communicate on the power line when the load is 100% on?

Full on implies zero ohms at the switch? I would guess they only supported dimmers (vs. relay), such that they were never fully on?

[Brian H]

There may have been a voltage always dropped across them. I have seen schematics but never reasoned it out.

http://www.polarsys.ca/docs/x10/schematics/ws467.html

[PSquare]

I don't want to sound dumb but would this new 2 wire switch work with a MR16 spot? I don't know if u can consider a MR16 spot in the same category as incandescent lights.

[LeeG]

There are MR16 Halogen spots which may work. There are MR16 LED spots which will likely not work. The specs for the two wire switch specifically indicate incandescent. The rest will be trial and error.

[apostolakisl]

But how would it get power and be able to communicate on the power line when the load is 100% on?

Full on implies zero ohms at the switch?

 

They would basically "peal off" a couple volts by making 100% on actually something just slightly less than 100%. A small resistor in series with the load with the positive lead to the Insteon circuitry comming from the upstream side and the neutral wire going to the downstream side. The challenge I see with this is that the resistance of the load would affect the distribution of power between the Insteon circuitry and the lamp. It is a ratio thing, if the resistor's ohms are equal to the load's ohms, then half the juice (volts) goes each way.

 

It may be a variable resistor they use and/or a voltage regulator to provide consistent volts to the Insteon circuitry.