PLM not linking with RF Switchlinc

[JSP0511]

Hello everyone,

 

I am new to the forum and to Insteon/home automation although I've been reading here and there for a couple of weeks. The issue that I am having is that when I first installed the RF only Switchlinc, it synced up with my PLM/ISY flawlessly and was able to control the switch from the ISY and Mobilinc. Both the PLM and RF Switchlinc are in my basement, about 10 feet from each other. The morning after linking, the Switchlinc status failed to show up on Mobilinc and failed to communicate with the ISY. After many unsuccessful attempts to relink, I factory reset the ISY and PM (I only have a few switches right now so it wasn't a big deal to reprogram everything). After the factory reset, the RF Switchlinc does not show up in the ISY and I cannot get it to link at all. I also then factory reset the Switchlinc which did not help. The switch does work locally.

 

Lastly, I have a dual band Switchlinc upstairs that also connected on day one but has failed to communicate with my ISY since. I confirmed that it's on a separate phase from the PLM when I used an extension cord to plug the PLM into an outlet on a different circuit and was able to connect with the dual band switch. It is no surprise that this switch's RF doesn't reach as it's one floor up in a 1928 built home but it did work the day I installed it and failed later that night to ever communicate again.

 

Other than the PLM and Dual Band switchlinc (on main floor), I have no other dual band devices although more are on the way. I have the FIOS wireless router next to the ISY and PLM in the basement (PLM is plugged into a Leviton 47605-DP AC Power Block). I have a Trendnet Powerline TPL-401E2K plugged into the router in the basement for internet and plugged into a regular outlet to send it's signal and I have another Trendnet TPL-401E2K on the second floor with a Netgear R6300 wireless router extending/repeating my wifi signal.

 

The powerline signal from the PLM to my I/O linc in the garage and my powerline Switchlincs in the basement work fine. I have tried the PLM in both the Leviton 47605-DP AC Power Block and the regular outlet at the panel with no changes so I'm comfortable with it where it is. I will be adding dual band Switchlincs as I move on to the main and second floor. My issue right now is why this RF only Switchlinc will not connect when it's 8-10 ft and around a corner from the PLM. I have two doors between them but I've left them open for testing purposes.

 

From the photo attached, I have since moved the Trendnet powerline adapter to the outlet outside of the Leviton enclosure as it would not work through the surge protected outlets. I have also tested the ISY/PLM with the Trendnet unplugged, no difference.

 

 

 

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Jerry

[ELA]

Hello JSP0511,

 

I believe I see two(3)? reasons that you are having poor communications.

1) The large enclosure looks to be metal?

If so that is likely to attenuate your RF communications between the PLM and your RF only device.

While comms may not be as affected with the door open it still looks like a bad location for a PLM.

2) The Leviton Power Block has an EMI filter in it. That will attenuate your power line signals to some extent. Since it states that it is a dual stage filter it may be a substantial attenuation.

NOTE: The Power Block can still attenuate Insteon signals even if the PLM is not plugged directly into it. ( assuming you plugged the PLM into the outlet shown outside the cabinet.) If it is still on the same circuit and that physically close, attenuation may still occur..

3) Does the trendnet device use powerline communications?

[JSP0511]

ELA,

 

Thank you for your response. I actually just installed that enclosure yesterday afternoon but had already lost connectivity with the RF Switchlinc in the morning. I also tested the PLM out of the enclosure both at the outlet to the right in the photo and on an extension cord from another phase. With the PLM in the Leviton outlet, outlet to the right in the photo or in the extension cord, the powerline signal seems fine as I can connect to all powerline connected devices. In all three instances, I could not connect with my RF only device and only with the extension cord setup could I connect with the Dual Band Switchlinc one floor up.

[ELA]

JSP0511,

Is the enclosure metal? If so then you know that will be an issue right?

Looks like the Trendnet does use powerline comms. I am not familiar with what freq. it uses but may be likely to interefere witgh your Insteon powerline comm.

Hopefully another member more familiar with that device can answer that.

 

What happens if you use an extension cord with the PLM, and located within a couple of feet of the RF only device?

 

I believe you have several possible issues and they can all contribute to marginal comms. Changing any one at a time may not be enough.

[Brian H]

RF only SwitchLinc Dimmer?

Is it one of the brand new two wire RF only ones?

 

I believe the antenna placement in the DB PLM and DB SwitchLincs are better at horizontal placement than vertical to a floor above.

[JSP0511]

JSP0511,

Is the enclosure metal? If so then you know that will be an issue right?

Looks like the Trendnet does use powerline comms. I am not familiar with what freq. it uses but may be likely to interefere witgh your Insteon powerline comm.

Hopefully another member more familiar with that device can answer that.

 

What happens if you use an extension cord with the PLM, and located within a couple of feet of the RF only device?

 

I believe you have several possible issues and they can all contribute to marginal comms. Changing any one at a time may not be enough.

 

I think I may have to try a few tests to see if I can regain connectivity. I can use the extension cord again but this time use a longer ethernet cable so I can get the PLM right next to the switch. If that doesn't work, I can disable the wifi and retry the same test. Not sure what else I can try.

[JSP0511]

RF only SwitchLinc Dimmer?

Is it one of the brand new two wire RF only ones?

 

I believe the antenna placement in the DB PLM and DB SwitchLincs are better at horizontal placement than vertical to a floor above.

 

Brian, yes the Switchlinc is the two-wire model with RF only. The PLM has been plugged in horizontally, vertically and simply resting on a shelf I have in that room when I used the extension cord.

[ELA]

JSP0511,

 

If you move the PLM keep in mind that the serial cable between the PLM and the ISY should not be extended too far ( ~50ft max) or it may become unstable comms to the ISY.

You can extend the ethernet connection between the ISY and your router more than that, but then you need to take the ISY along with the PLM in the move.

 

Does your RF only switchlinc have the required minimum load type?

[JSP0511]

JSP0511,

 

If you move the PLM keep in mind that the serial cable between the PLM and the ISY should not be extended too far ( ~50ft max) or it may become unstable comms to the ISY.

You can extend the ethernet connection between the ISY and your router more than that, but then you need to take the ISY along with the PLM in the move.

 

Does your RF only switchlinc have the required minimum load type?

 

I am not sure about the minimum load type. How would I know?

 

Could the wifi signal be interfering with the RF signal from the PLM...is that even possible?

[LeeG]

The minimum load is 25 watts incandescent. The 2-wire dimmer draws power through the load. If no load is attached or not enough the dimmer cannot draw enough power to operate.

 

Doubt the Wi-Fi is causing a problem unless it is very near the PLM. The Wi-Fi transmitter could be interfering with the very low power RF signal from the PLM even though on different frequencies.

[JSP0511]

The minimum load is 25 watts incandescent. The 2-wire dimmer draws power through the load. If no load is attached or not enough the dimmer cannot draw enough power to operate.

 

Doubt the Wi-Fi is causing a problem unless it is very near the PLM. The Wi-Fi transmitter could be interfering with the very low power RF signal from the PLM even though on different frequencies.

 

The dimmer seems to work fine locally, the LEDs go up and down, it dims the light. I have 1 60watt bulb on it. Would that lead you to believe it has enough load?

[ELA]

JSP0511,

Is the 60 watt bulb incandescent?

Take a look at the device manual for minimum and acceptable loads.

 

With your PLM located as your picture shows I would guess that the RF section would not be operating very efficiently ( especially when the door is closed). As was mentioned earlier the orientation is not vertical and one half of the antenna is directly up against a metallic enclosure.

 

With the Wfii transmitter in the same metal cabinet this does not seem like an optimum RF environment for either.

[JSP0511]

JSP0511,

Is the 60 watt bulb incandescent?

Take a look at the device manual for minimum and acceptable loads.

 

Yes, incandescent.

[ELA]

Is your RF only switchlinc mounted in a plastic or metal box?

[JSP0511]

Is your RF only switchlinc mounted in a plastic or metal box?

 

metal box

 

Just installed a dual band right next to it...about to start linking attempts...

[JSP0511]

Installed a dual band switch in place of the powerline switch in both the downstairs box and upstairs box that control the basement lights. The RF only switch downstairs and the dual band dining room switch are now all online and everything seems to be working.

 

Thanks for the help everyone. I'll keep you posted as my system grows.

 

~Jerry