KeyPadLincs - What about those lit up buttons?

[Ryan0751]

I have 2 8 button KeypadLincs. My scenes are all nicely set up, and work well.

 

I find, however, that after a bunch of presses the various buttons remain lit up and need to be pressed again to turn them off.

 

I went into the grouping settings of the ISY-99, and tried to make a mutual exclusion button group. It warns that this isn't the right way to do it....

 

Should for a scene that is set to use KPL button B as controller, should I make all the other buttons responders and set their state to off? Would I need to push the scenes all out again to my various controllers (RemoteLinc's, another KPL) which would take a long time?

[LeeG]

"Should for a scene that is set to use KPL button B as controller, should I make all the other buttons responders and set their state to off?"

 

Yes, for those Secondary buttons that should be Off when another button is pressed. Note that if multiple KeypadLincs are used KeypadLinc V.40 firmware (or higher) is required for KeypadLinc1 to turn Off Secondary buttons in KeypadLinc2 with a Scene On.

[Ryan0751]

"Should for a scene that is set to use KPL button B as controller, should I make all the other buttons responders and set their state to off?"

 

Yes, for those Secondary buttons that should be Off when another button is pressed. Note that if multiple KeypadLincs are used KeypadLinc V.40 firmware (or higher) is required for KeypadLinc1 to turn Off Secondary buttons in KeypadLinc2 with a Scene On.

 

I have 2, and they aren't at V.40. Is there a way to upgrade the firmware?

[Brian H]

No module firmware can not be upgraded to a later revision.

[Ryan0751]

No module firmware can not be upgraded to a later revision.

 

Stinky.

 

So exactly how would I handle this? Both my keypadlincs have the exact same scenes on them.

 

I'm a little confused

 

Add all the buttons not used for BOTH KPL's to the scene and say "off"? (that's a lot of items to add)

 

Also, are the mutually exclusive groups SUPPOSED to work?

[LeeG]

Do not use Mutually Exclusive Groups (Button Grouping). It conflicts with using 0% On Level and it only applies to the KeypadLinc where the button is pressed. Only those Secondary buttons that are functioning in a mutually exclusive relationship should be included as Responders with On Level at 0%.

 

With firmware below v.40 ISY Programs and additional Scenes are needed. Trigger a Program with a particular button On and have it send a Scene Off for a Scene that includes the buttons in the other KeypadLinc (not the KeypadLinc where the button is physically pressed) that should be Off. Secondary buttons in the same KeypadLinc as where the button is pressed will react to the On Level at 0%.

[Ryan0751]

Do not use Mutually Exclusive Groups (Button Grouping). It conflicts with using 0% On Level and it only applies to the KeypadLinc where the button is pressed. Only those Secondary buttons that are functioning in a mutually exclusive relationship should be included as Responders with On Level at 0%.

 

With firmware below v.40 ISY Programs and additional Scenes are needed. Trigger a Program with a particular button On and have it send a Scene Off for a Scene that includes the buttons in the other KeypadLinc (not the KeypadLinc where the button is physically pressed) that should be Off. Secondary buttons in the same KeypadLinc as where the button is pressed will react to the On Level at 0%.

 

To clarify, I have two KPL's. One in the kitchen, one in the loft area. Button B on both KPL's let say run the scene "downstairs".

 

In the scene, I have B on both KPL's set as a controller.

 

Now, you say I can have the secondary buttons as responders, but only on the KPL where the button is pressed, and then an additional program to trigger the other KPL's secondary buttons to be "off".

 

Since both KPL's act as the controller, doesn't that present a problem (since either one can be pressed)? Can I just create anISY program that says "OK, downstairs scene was triggerred, trigger a scene to turn off C D E F G H on both kitchen and loft's KPL's".

 

Thanks very much for your help!

[LeeG]

In the simple Scene that is initially described, KPL1 button B and KPL2 button B are Controllers in the same ISY Scene. The ISY will cross link the buttons such that either button B On/Off will control the other KPL button B On/Off.

 

In a more complex arrangement where buttons B,C,D have an interrelationship in the devices/Scenes they control such that only 1 of the buttons should be On at a time, that is mutually exclusive buttons, radio buttons, etc. To achieve this three ISY Scenes are needed,.

 

SceneB

KPL1 button B Controller

KPL1 button C Responder with 0% On Level

KPL1 button D Responder with 0% On Level

KPL2 button B Controller

KPL2 button C Responder with 0% On Level

KPL2 button D Responder with 0% On Level

 

SceneC

KPL1 button C Controller

KPL1 button B Responder with 0% On Level

KPL1 button D Responder with 0% On Level

KPL2 button C Controller

KPL2 button B Responder with 0% On Level

KPL2 button D Responder with 0% On Level

 

SceneD

KPL1 button D Controller

KPL1 button B Responder with 0% On Level

KPL1 button C Responder with 0% On Level

KPL2 button D Controller

KPL2 button B Responder with 0% On Level

KPL2 button C Responder with 0% On Level

 

With KeypadLinc v.40 firmware this is all that is needed.

 

With KPL firmware below v.40 pressing a button on KPL1 On will not turn Off the Responder buttons in KPL2. The KeypadLinc firmware does not support the function.

 

To accomplish this for Scene B, an ISY Program is triggered by KPL1 button B On. The Program turns SceneX Off. SceneX has KPL2 button C and KPL2 button D as Responders. Another Program is required that triggers with KPL2 button B On. The Program turns SceneY Off. SceneY has KPL1 button C and KPL1 button D as Responders.

 

This pair of Programs and Scenes are repeated for each of the other KPL1 and KPL2 Controller buttons.

[Ryan0751]

This is awesome, thanks so much.

 

When did SmartHome begin shipping the .40's?

 

I just checked, and I ordered these babies in July 2011. Are they that new? The ISY is definitely showing them as .36.

[gatchel]

No module firmware can not be upgraded to a later revision.

 

I can't believe there still isn't a way to do this...

[LeeG]

Don't know when the KeypadLinc v.40 firmware first became available. The two I have are approx 6 months old.

[Ryan0751]

Ok I spent a LOT of time tonight setting up the scenes and programs.

 

I have Kitchen Panel, and Bedroom Panel (KP and BP for short).

 

I created the following scenes:

BP all but B

BP all but C

and so on... (B-H)

 

And:

KP all but B

KP all but C

and so on... (B-H)

 

In each of those scenes are all the buttons for the specified panel, except the specified button letter. If I hit "on" on that scene, all the buttons except that one light up, and conversely the reverse is true.

 

In each of my other scenes (the 7 using the keypads, which are identical for both keypads), I added in all the buttons for both panels as responders, except for the 1 button per panel which was already there as a controller. I clicked in the scene on each panel, and set the levels for all the responders to 0. From here, if I press a key, it lights up. If I press another key, the first light goes out, the second key lights up as I want (on the local panel).

 

Now, on the other panel, I noticed all the LED's were lit up. So I went ahead and created 14 programs, one for each button press. For example, for KP button B, I have a program such as this:

 

If Control 'Kitchen Panel / Kitchen Panel - B (Ambient)' is switched on

Then Set Scene 'Bedroom Panel Scenes / BP All But B' Off

 

The program is enabled, but doesn't seem to trigger anything on the bedroom panel when I hit the kitchen panel B button.

 

I also ran into an issue with my RemoteLyncs. When I would hit a scene on the remote linc, ALL of the buttons on BOTH my keypadlincs would light up. I added a program just like above, but for "if remotelinc button pressed" then use the same two "BP all But X and KP all But X" scenes. In this case, it now works. All the lights light up for a second, then only the scene button activated is left on.

 

Any pointers?

[Ryan0751]

I have an update (already!).

 

I added in a 5 second wait to all of these programs, and things seem to be working perfectly now.

 

Is this normal? It's no big deal as long as the "state" lands where it should be.

[LeeG]

When the ISY implemented support for turning Off Secondary buttons with 0% On Level it applies only to Controllers of the Scene, not the Scene name itself. You will notice when the Scene name is selected there are no Responders listed so none of the Responders can be set to 0% On Level. This specific problem may be resolved with the next ISY release.

 

“In each of those scenes are all the buttons for the specified panel, except the specified button letter.â€

 

Were these Scenes set up to turn Off all buttons but the button that triggers the Program? The results are as expected. Turn the Scene On and all the Responders turn On. These Scenes (without the Controller button) are meant to turn Off all buttons but the Controller. As such the only logical use of these Scenes is Scene Off.

 

“he program is enabled, but doesn't seem to trigger anything on the bedroom panel when I hit the kitchen panel B button. “

 

Does the Program get triggered (Programs | Summary panel will display last run time) but the Scene does not work or the Program does not get triggered. If the Program does not get triggered try a right click on the KPL Primary node and select Restore Device. If the link records have been lost or corrupted this will fix. If it still does not trigger the Program then a comm problem with the KPL is suspect.

[Ryan0751]

That all makes sense. The wait's seem to have fixed setting the buttons correctly.

 

When the ISY implemented support for turning Off Secondary buttons with 0% On Level it applies only to Controllers of the Scene, not the Scene name itself. You will notice when the Scene name is selected there are no Responders listed so none of the Responders can be set to 0% On Level. This specific problem may be resolved with the next ISY release.

 

“In each of those scenes are all the buttons for the specified panel, except the specified button letter.â€

 

Were these Scenes set up to turn Off all buttons but the button that triggers the Program? The results are as expected. Turn the Scene On and all the Responders turn On. These Scenes (without the Controller button) are meant to turn Off all buttons but the Controller. As such the only logical use of these Scenes is Scene Off.

 

“he program is enabled, but doesn't seem to trigger anything on the bedroom panel when I hit the kitchen panel B button. “

 

Does the Program get triggered (Programs | Summary panel will display last run time) but the Scene does not work or the Program does not get triggered. If the Program does not get triggered try a right click on the KPL Primary node and select Restore Device. If the link records have been lost or corrupted this will fix. If it still does not trigger the Program then a comm problem with the KPL is suspect.

[LeeG]

Insteon supports only one Scene running at a time. If a device button press is driving a large Scene and a Program tries to start another Scene before the button Scene is finished, one of the Scenes is cancelled.