Thermostat ramp up program

[GregE]

Hey all,

 

I have a lake house that has an insteon thermostat. I'd like to have a program that I can run manually by using my phone and MobiLinc to slowly raise the temperature in the winter. I set it back when we are gone and I will have internet access this winter so I thought it would be nice to let the temp come up while driving down. I want to do it slowly because it is a heat pump and if I just raise the temp to what I want, the electric backup could come on to get it there quicker. Unless the temp outside is pretty cold, I would rather just the heat pump do the work. Can anybody help me come up with a program? I really have no idea where to start on this one.

 

Thanks

[LeeG]

Currently variables cannot be used in commands so the more sophisticated approach will have to wait. The Wait time is trial and error. Depends on how fast the heat comes up which is also dependent on outside temperature. The increase in Set Point is also probably trial and error. Anything over a few degrees increase will bring on the heating elements. May need to come up 1 degree at a time with a shorter Wait time. The problem is the Wait time is dependent on the outside temperature. If the drive time is long then a longer Wait time to compensate for colder days may be appropriate. Again, all trial and error.

If
  - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

Then
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 65° (Heat Setpoint)
       Wait  10 minutes 
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 67° (Heat Setpoint)
       Wait  10 minutes 
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 69° (Heat Setpoint)
       Wait  10 minutes 
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 71° (Heat Setpoint)
       Wait  10 minutes 
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 73° (Heat Setpoint)
       Wait  10 minutes 
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 75° (Heat Setpoint)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[GregE]

Thanks. Brainstorming here. Any way for the program to see what the temp is in the house and change the setpoint accordingly? Drive time is about 3.5 hours so I have quite a bit of time if I start it when I leave home.

[LeeG]

Specific temporatures can be checked as well as ranges by combining checks with an And.

 

If
       Status  'T2491T1E - Main' <= 65° (Temperature)

Then
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 65° (Heat Setpoint)
       Wait  10 minutes 
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 67° (Heat Setpoint)

If
       Status  'T2491T1E - Main' >= 65° (Temperature)
   And Status  'T2491T1E - Main' <= 75° (Temperature)

Then
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 65° (Heat Setpoint)
       Wait  10 minutes 
       Set 'T2491T1E - Main' 67° (Heat Setpoint)

[GregE]

hmmm Guess I can't test the temp in the "Then" section? I was thinking if I could check the temp and then add 2 degrees to it and run the heat for 10 minutes. Then check it again and see what the temp is and either raise the temp or make the system rest for 5 minutes to make sure the aux heat doesn't come on from it running for a while.

[LeeG]

No Ifs in the Then Clause. A Program could loop (Repeat) calling a Program every 15 minutes which checks the temperature and changes the set point but the temperature values would be fixed. If/When variables can be set with device information such as temperature and the value in the Set Point change statement can be a variable that is incremented, then something like you are thinking about is possible. Until then it is absolute temperature checks and absolute set point changes.

[GregE]

Thanks Lee.

 

One more question. Is there a way to change the deadband from stage 1 to 2 and the minutes between stage 1 and 2 from a program? I think that would be very useful for me.

[LeeG]

No, not programmatically.

[GregE]

That's what I figured. Too bad though. It would make my life easier if it was.

[Illusion]

The ultimate solution, which is what I have done.

 

In a conventional 24V Heat Pump, the aux/emergency heat is called by the t-stat. I just put an IOLinc in that line, breaking the t-stat's direct connection to the HVAC System. The IOLinc is normally closed, allowing the t-stat to call heat strips when it wants to.

 

Then when I run the 'Pre-Heat' program from within the ISY, the ISY opens this IOLinc and sets the t-stats to my target temp. The T-Stat of course calls for both mechanical and resistance heat, but the resistance heat call never makes is to the equipment.

 

This method has the added advantage of instituting an outdoor temperature limit for the resistance heat. Through an ISY program, this IOLinc is opened any time the outdoor temp is above X (per weatherbug data). This way, even when I manually raise the temperature, I only use mechanical heat if there is enough energy in the air outside that it makes sense to just wait a bit longer for the room to warm up and save all that electricity.

[apostolakisl]

The ultimate solution, which is what I have done.

 

In a conventional 24V Heat Pump, the aux/emergency heat is called by the t-stat. I just put an IOLinc in that line, breaking the t-stat's direct connection to the HVAC System. The IOLinc is normally closed, allowing the t-stat to call heat strips when it wants to.

 

Then when I run the 'Pre-Heat' program from within the ISY, the ISY opens this IOLinc and sets the t-stats to my target temp. The T-Stat of course calls for both mechanical and resistance heat, but the resistance heat call never makes is to the equipment.

 

This method has the added advantage of instituting an outdoor temperature limit for the resistance heat. Through an ISY program, this IOLinc is opened any time the outdoor temp is above X (per weatherbug data). This way, even when I manually raise the temperature, I only use mechanical heat if there is enough energy in the air outside that it makes sense to just wait a bit longer for the room to warm up and save all that electricity.

 

I would vote for this solution. You could write all kinds of programs that either allow for resistance heat or not based on the type of situation. Morning warm up could start a half hour before you awake and then 5 minutes before it could allow the strips to come on if needed. That sort of thing.

[GregE]

The ultimate solution, which is what I have done.

 

In a conventional 24V Heat Pump, the aux/emergency heat is called by the t-stat. I just put an IOLinc in that line, breaking the t-stat's direct connection to the HVAC System. The IOLinc is normally closed, allowing the t-stat to call heat strips when it wants to.

 

Then when I run the 'Pre-Heat' program from within the ISY, the ISY opens this IOLinc and sets the t-stats to my target temp. The T-Stat of course calls for both mechanical and resistance heat, but the resistance heat call never makes is to the equipment.

 

This method has the added advantage of instituting an outdoor temperature limit for the resistance heat. Through an ISY program, this IOLinc is opened any time the outdoor temp is above X (per weatherbug data). This way, even when I manually raise the temperature, I only use mechanical heat if there is enough energy in the air outside that it makes sense to just wait a bit longer for the room to warm up and save all that electricity.

 

I love this idea. So what else do I need besides an IOLinc if I want to get the temp from outside? I guess I would do this at the main unit in my basement.

[apostolakisl]

The ultimate solution, which is what I have done.

 

In a conventional 24V Heat Pump, the aux/emergency heat is called by the t-stat. I just put an IOLinc in that line, breaking the t-stat's direct connection to the HVAC System. The IOLinc is normally closed, allowing the t-stat to call heat strips when it wants to.

 

Then when I run the 'Pre-Heat' program from within the ISY, the ISY opens this IOLinc and sets the t-stats to my target temp. The T-Stat of course calls for both mechanical and resistance heat, but the resistance heat call never makes is to the equipment.

 

This method has the added advantage of instituting an outdoor temperature limit for the resistance heat. Through an ISY program, this IOLinc is opened any time the outdoor temp is above X (per weatherbug data). This way, even when I manually raise the temperature, I only use mechanical heat if there is enough energy in the air outside that it makes sense to just wait a bit longer for the room to warm up and save all that electricity.

 

I love this idea. So what else do I need besides an IOLinc if I want to get the temp from outside? I guess I would do this at the main unit in my basement.

 

 

Here is a link to wire color schemes. http://www.toad.net/~jsmeenen/wiring.html Just make sure you don't disable your units defrost mode.

 

As far as temp from outside. You can buy the ISY weatherbug module which should be plenty accurate enough. You can also buy a cai webcontrol board and link that to the ISY using WClink program written by IOguy and posted on this forum for transferring temp into ISY. The webcontrol board can also be your I/O controller instead of using the Insteon IOLinc. Kills 2 birds with one stone. Although using weatherbug and IOLinc will require less effort on your part.

[GregE]

I never checked out weatherbug before but have heard people talk about it. So it's a module for the ISY that gets it's data from other sources so the ISY will know weather conditions. Pretty neat. And like you said, I could use that as my temp which should be close enough and then I only need the IOLinc.

 

Illusion, is that how you did it with weatherbug?

[Illusion]

Exactly.

 

And do not get hung up on just breaking the line. I put my IOLinc in a convenient spot, then ran two conductor wire to the air handler. Then inside the air handler I just pull the aux heat wire off the terminal, connecting it to one of the two conductors. The other conductor is then attached to the terminal on the unit.

 

It makes a nice long switch loop so you can put the IOLinc wherever it is easy to run the wire and have an outlet.

[GregE]

I've got some CAT5 wire that is 24 AWG so could use 2 wires of that for each way.

 

So did you use the common and normally closed terminals on the IOLinc to break the aux heat wire? Care to post your preheat program?

[apostolakisl]

I've got some CAT5 wire that is 24 AWG so could use 2 wires of that for each way.

 

So did you use the common and normally closed terminals on the IOLinc to break the aux heat wire? Care to post your preheat program?

 

I would use thermostat wire. It is 18g. 24g is pretty small. Thermostat wire comes with 4 or more conductors depending on what you want. These wire carry 24vac. . . not sure on the current, but they wouldn't normally use 18g just to waste money.

[GregE]

Just hated to buy cable to do it. Should be a short run but I have some 18 AWG hookup wire that I will use.

[Illusion]

It is cheap cable. Buy it.

 

First, it will be rated to be installed in walls. (jacketed)

 

Second, it will be solid core, making the connection to the equipment and IOLinc easy.

 

Third, if this is also an AC unit: Get 4 conductor wire instead of 2 (18ga). Run the other two wires to the input of the same IOLinc. At the unit, connected those wires to a readily availble, inexpensive, and easy to install HVAC pan float switch. Should the pan ever back up with water, you get an email after setting up said program in the ISY.

 

Yes, between common and NC.

 

I would love to post my pre-heat program, but I am not the right guy to ask that of. Climate control is one of the most advanced and complicated things my ISY controls. I have over 250 interrelated programs for my indoor climate control. I did go to my programs to see what I could easily translate here for you, but alas, all my programs like pre-heat are just a series of calls to other programs at the proper moment when the if is met. Most of those programs called also call other programs. I have no easy way to put it here without posting dozens of programs, maybe even a hundred. Sorry.

[GregE]

What would the program look like to check teh outside temp and activate the IOLink? Got my IOLin today but won't be back to the lake house for a while to set everything up.

[Illusion]

Here is a really simplified version of one that would function all the time, not just for pre-heat

 

Aux Heat Temp Monitor:

If
       Module 'Climate' Temperature > 38 °F

Then
       Set 'Garage / Aux Heat Enable-Relay' Off

Else
       Set 'Garage / Aux Heat Enable-Relay' On

 

And here is a really simplified pre-heat type program. I just made this up real quick to give you some ideas, mine are much more complicated:

 

Pre-Heat Cabin:

If
  - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

Then
       Disable Program 'Aux Heat Temp Monitor'
       Set 'Garage / Aux Heat Enable-Relay' Off
       Set 'T-Stat' 75° (Heat Setpoint)
       Wait  6 hours 
       Run Program 'Pre-Heat Cabin' (Else Path)

Else
       Enable Program 'Aux Heat Temp Monitor'

 

Now the problem with the really simplified Aux Heat Temp Monitor is that every time the ISY polls the weatherbug info, it is going to run the then or the else, so we will be sending tons of commands to that IOLinc. No good, so I actually do this with 4 programs as follows. These are actually copies of some of my programs so there are references to the parent folder which gets enabled or not based on other stuff.

 

Aux Heat Disable:

If
       Folder  'Auto Aux Heat Inhibit' is True
   And Module 'Climate' Temperature >= 32 °F

Then
       Run Program 'Aux Heat Disable Action' (If)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Aux Heat Disable Action:

If
       Status  'Garage / Aux Heat Enable-Relay' is not Off

Then
       Set 'Garage / Aux Heat Enable-Relay' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Aux Heat Enable:

If
       Folder  'Auto Aux Heat Inhibit' is True
   And Module 'Climate' Temperature <= 29 °F

Then
       Run Program 'Aux Heat Enable Action' (If)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Aux Heat Enable Action:

If
       Status  'Garage / Aux Heat Enable-Relay' is not On

Then
       Set 'Garage / Aux Heat Enable-Relay' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

The parent folder I have all these in gets disabled by my pre-heat program so none of them run while in pre-heat regardless of how cold it is outside. No aux heat in pre-heat ever in my system. I hope this helps you.

[GregE]

Exactly.

 

And do not get hung up on just breaking the line. I put my IOLinc in a convenient spot, then ran two conductor wire to the air handler. Then inside the air handler I just pull the aux heat wire off the terminal, connecting it to one of the two conductors. The other conductor is then attached to the terminal on the unit.

 

It makes a nice long switch loop so you can put the IOLinc wherever it is easy to run the wire and have an outlet.

 

I looked at my air handler in the basement and 2 wires come to the terminal strip. One would be from the thermostat and the other appears to go to the outside unit. So I just need to pull off the wire that goes to W2 that comes from the thermostat and put the IOLinc in between, right? BTW, I did buy some thermostat wire. I didn't think they sold it in 25' coil so when I saw it that way I got it.

[apostolakisl]

Just be careful not to mess your equipment up. On heat mode there is a reversing valve and it usually turns heat strips on as part of a defrost cycle. You wouldn't want to mess that up and cause damage or freeze up your unit.

[LeeG]

That is a very good point. I had a control relay contacts problem a few years ago that kept the aux heat from coming on. During the heating season it would blow cold air for a few minutes when it switched to the defrost cycle which keeps things from freezing up. The aux heat is turned on during the defrost cycles to prevent the cold air blast. Only happens a few minutes each hour but disconcerting to be blowing AC air during the winter.

[Illusion]

Interrupt the aux heat wire coming from the t-stat. Leave the Aux Heat wire connected to the terminal from the outdoor unit. That is where the call for Aux Heat during a defrost cycle will come from. As the others have said, never interrupt that! Not great for your equipment, and kinda uncomfortable.