Programming question

[bmiller]

I tried the new program and it works, for all but one light. The living room light does not shut off when the KPL C button is switched off.

I can operate it ok with the other KPL button that is programed to turn it off and on. The only thing i noticed in the console was a remotelinc

button for the same light was on, but this is only a momentary on/ off, so i don't think that would have any affect. It is programed to turn off

the same as the other 3, but it doesn't. There is no indication in the console of communication errors.

[LeeG]

An ISY Program cannot turn Secondary KeypadLinc button C On/Off. There is no Insteon Direct device control command that turns Secondary KeypadLinc buttons On/Off. A Secondary KeypadLinc button has to be assigned to a Scene either as a Controller or Responder and turn the Scene On/Off.

[bmiller]

I am turning it off manually when i get home. When i turn it off now, all the lights that are on via the programs go off except the 1 in the living room. No idea why it doesn't shut off. Not a big deal, but as far as i can see it should. As soon as i manually toggle KPL C to off, the other lights go off. I then toggle another KPL button, which is linked to the living room light alone, and it will toggle on and off no problem.

I also have the KPL C linked to a scene to use with mobilinc.

[apostolakisl]

I tried the new program and it works, for all but one light. The living room light does not shut off when the KPL C button is switched off.

I can operate it ok with the other KPL button that is programed to turn it off and on. The only thing i noticed in the console was a remotelinc

button for the same light was on, but this is only a momentary on/ off, so i don't think that would have any affect. It is programed to turn off

the same as the other 3, but it doesn't. There is no indication in the console of communication errors.

 

There is a good chance it is a comm failure. As I mentioned earlier, when you have a program send a bunch of individual light commands all at once there gets to be a bunch of traffic and failures are more likely.

 

I suggest creating a scene and entering those 4 lights into it, all as responders only. Then set your program to set the scene off. A scene "off" command is a single piece of Insteon traffic regardless of how many lights are in it.

[bmiller]

I think i know what you mean. I deleted the 8 commands in "then" and added the new scene with the 4 lights in it. So now it reads "if" the KPL C is switched off "then" set scene off.

I'll try it again tonight, and see how it goes. Thanks again for all the ideas.

Brad

[apostolakisl]

You shouldn't delete the 4 stop program commands. Those don't produce any insteon traffic and will still be necessary.

[bmiller]

I tried the new program addition, and all the lights came on as they should have. All shut of except the living room light again, and now i've lost control of the kitchen light and living room light via the 2 other kpl buttons i had working for the last month. They will turn on by the buttons, but not turn off. I restored to a backup from a couple of days ago, and still no control. both lights are now basically uncontrollable via the keypadlinc, or the remotelink2 . Very frustrating. It is not a reliable system at all at this point.

[apostolakisl]

What type of bulbs do you have?

 

Sounds like noisy load issue (cfl bulbs?)

[bmiller]

Cfl's for the most part. The same bulbs that have been working for the last few weeks. I can shut both lights off from the console, but not the kpl or remotelinc2.

I unscrewed the cfl in the living room, shut the kitchen counter florescent lights off via the switch on the lights. With the kpl buttons for both lights on, i can see the on and off for the lights in the console working ok with the remotelinc, but not the kpl. I removed the remotelinc from the folder, and now the kpl will turn both lights on, but not off. In the console i can see the kpl buttons toggle off, but the lights stay on. This is with the cfl removed from the lamp, and the florescent lights switched off. That means it's not noise from the lights. This is a complete mess compared to yesterday morning.

 

I decided to start from scratch. I'm using mostly scenes as opposed to folders. As of now everything is back to operating as it was. Hopefully the one command from each scene will reduce the conflicts that arose from multiple commands from folders. The next test is tonight at sunset, and then the program off command. There must have been too much traffic with all the programs operating at once. Your patience is appreciated.

[apostolakisl]

I don't know really what's going on here. It's kind of hard to tell without being there. You may have some bad links. The fact that you restored an ISY backup after having made changes to links on your devices is a definite no-no. Your link records on your devices will not match what ISY thinks is there. Restoring an ISY backup does not change the links on the devices. You can always factory reset your devices and then use ISY to restore the devices. This will ensure that ISY links tables and your devices are the same. You could also use ISY to check the link records and compare to its expected links and only restore devices that are wrong.

 

I don't know how many devices you have. If you only have a few, it might just be easiest to factory reset all of them and then have ISY restore each device.

[bmiller]

I just found out i now have my remotelinc and kpl working together like a 3 way switch setup for 2 separate lights. If i turn on light 1 with the remote, the associated kpl light comes on. I can then turn it off via the kpl. Same in reverse and also for another light. It solved the minor inconvenience of double tapping to turn a light on and of. It wasn't expecting this, but i like it.

[bmiller]

The new setup works perfectly. The lights that came on at sunset as they should, shut off when the kpl c was toggled off. I gather the problem was as apostolakisl stated earlier. Scenes are a better option than folders and programs alone. Thanks to all the patient mods. I'm sure there will be more problems arise, but as we all get more tuned with what works as far as language, it gets somewhat easier. The rf coupler i installed solved a lot of problems, as well as the filters on the ups's i have. It's the patience of the people on this forum that help relieve the frustration of the newbies as myself.

Thanks again

Brad

[apostolakisl]

I am pleased to hear that things are working.

 

However, you should still check your link records. You might have differences between ISY and your actual devices since it sounds as though you made changes to your devices and then did an ISY restore to prior to the changes.

 

Under Tools/diagnostics/show device links table. After it pulls all the records from the device, hit the compare to ISY button and see if it all checks out. If not, you need to fix it.

[bmiller]

I checked all the devices as you suggested, and the remotelinc 2 times out while checking. It also pops up a message about a problem with the " B " button. The records that it does check show mismatches and extra records. This device has a problem, although it seems to work ok. What is the best way to make the device links the same as the isy ? Factory reset, and then restore from the console?

Thanks for the help

Brad

[apostolakisl]

I would rather let someone else who owns remotelincs comment more definitely on this. I don't have any and they are a bit of a different beast being battery operated and 100% wireless.

 

I assume that they link like the other devices and if so a factory reset/restore would be in order. But the fact that it is timing out makes me wonder exactly what is going on. I know that Insteon battery devices have to be put into linking mode prior to certain actions. . . this may be one of them.

[bmiller]

It appears to be loading records at the time the remotelinc times out. There is over a page of records shown, along with the popup indicating comm error with one button. All the records loaded at that point are compared to the isy are either mismatches or extra records. I tried a factory reset, and then restore device from console, and after about 20%, i get the same comm error with one button, and then it stops the restore function. All the buttons in the console have a question mark beside them. The 3 buttons that i am using at this point still work. This is the only device that indicates a problem.

[apostolakisl]

Hmmm. Something sounds wrong. Hopefully someone is following this thread who knows more about that device.

[LeeG]

The RemoteLinc should stay awake for 4 minutes. If the RemoteLinc times out of linking mode, put it back into linking mode, right click the RemoteLinc primary button and select Write Updates to Device. The Restore should pick up from where the device timed out.

[bmiller]

I tried to get the device links table. It runs through the process to 100%, and then starts all over again. At about 505 of the way through the second time, i get an error that it has a comm. failure with button b and then stops. There is a long list of links at the point where it stops, all of which are mismatches, or extra links. I tried to factory reset and then write to device. Not much happens. It starts the write procedure, but you can see 0 bytes being written in the process window, then it stops. I tried to restore device, not a thing happens. The three buttons still work, so i gather i'm doing something wrong with the factory reset. I get all the indication that it has reset via the lights and beeps.

[LeeG]

Is this a RemoteLinc or RemoteLinc2?

 

Resetting the RemoteLinc effectively leaves half links in whatever devices were linked to the RemoteLinc. The half links can allow the responders to react even though the RemoteLinc is missing the other half of the link. Not a good situation as the Scene protocol messages between the RemoteLinc and the responders is compromised.

 

Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Level 3 selected. Put the RemoteLinc into linking mode. If a RemoteLinc press the Dim/Bright buttons together until LED blinks. If RemoteLinc2 use its Set button. Then do a Restore Device on the RemoteLinc Primary node. Start the Restore as soon as possible after putting the RemoteLinc into linking mode to take advantage of as much of the 4 minute wake time. The RemoteLinc should stay awake past the 4 minutes if receiving commands. However, if the RF comm to the RemoteLinc is marginal it may not be seeing all the commands. Post the event log.

[bmiller]

It's a remotelinc 2. I ran the restore device with the events viewer open, and this time it restored no problem. It took about 30 sec. I have the log as a text file or .pdf. 7 pages. Lee let me know if you want it and how to get it too you.

Thanks

Brad

[LeeG]

Sent a PM with my email address

[LeeG]

Button A has two responders: 1C.CC.50 1D.9B.E1

Button B has two responders: 1C.02.91 1D.9B.E1

Button D has one responder: 1A.B1.E4

 

The remaining buttons have no responders beyond the PLM for state change awareness as all the buttons have

 

The Restore Device took 20 seconds from first command to last ACK. The RF comm. is consistent in this event trace. For the RemoteLinc2 to have timed out of the 4 minute awake time in earlier attempts I would expect the RF comm. was compromised by something. Distance from Dual Band device, orientation to Dual Band device, something causing RF interference such as a baby monitor.

[bmiller]

I had the remotelinc about 3 feet from a dual device, but it might have been orientation or some interference that day. All the links you show are correct. 9B.E1 is a keypadlinc and the other 3 devices are the 3 lights i have on it so far. It appears from your result everything is ok.

Thanks for the help Lee.

Brad Miller

[bmiller]

I'm still trying to get my head around using status or control in an "if" statement. I can be a little slow that way. Status is a condition that a device is in at a certain time that will trigger an operation when something else occurs. Control is a momentary command that will trigger an action at that moment only, and cannot be used to setup a future action. Am i in left field with these statements. Both words sound like they can be interchangeable in some program statements.

Thanks again for your endless patience.

Brad