A new 2441TH issue

[arw01]

Man, I am glad I didn't buy one of those. I'm trying to find a thermostat for radiant. Looks like a nice touchscreen honeywell has great reviews and Zwave. Just don't know if the isy will support it.

 

Alan

[SteveL]

This is a followup to my earlier email about the reported automatic switching of the thermostat to "Energy Mode" Our QC team has been working to try to recreate this without sucess. That particular mode can be triggered by a direct command and can restore that state if it was linked to anything while in "Energy Mode".

 

We haven't been able to recreate this but there is theoretical evidence that it might be possible when the compressor kicks on and the power supply for the thermostat dips to a low voltage during the inrush of the compressor.

 

This would not happen in every case but only transformers less than 1 amp @ 24V. We are basically looking for installs that cause your lights to dim everytime your AC kicks on.

 

The thermostat will also go into "Energy Mode" if it were ever linked to anything while in that mose and then that device is turned on.

 

Steve L

INSTEON

We are going to continue to look into this but I wanted to pass on the information we had.

[MWareman]

This is a followup to my earlier email about the reported automatic switching of the thermostat to "Energy Mode" Our QC team has been working to try to recreate this without sucess. That particular mode can be triggered by a direct command and can restore that state if it was linked to anything while in "Energy Mode".

 

We haven't been able to recreate this but there is theoretical evidence that it might be possible when the compressor kicks on and the power supply for the thermostat dips to a low voltage during the inrush of the compressor.

 

This would not happen in every case but only transformers less than 1 amp @ 24V. We are basically looking for installs that cause your lights to dim everytime your AC kicks on.

 

The thermostat will also go into "Energy Mode" if it were ever linked to anything while in that mose and then that device is turned on.

 

Steve L

INSTEON

We are going to continue to look into this but I wanted to pass on the information we had.

 

Both my original and the replacement did this within hours after a factory reset - before ANY devices were linked. Empty link table and confirmed removed from the PLM link table, yet the issue still happened.

 

Its not a protocol issue.

[NHWA]

This also happened to both of my new thermostats (hooked up to two different AC/heat units) before any linking to any devices or to the ISY. I basically hooked them up and waited and they randomly went to energy saver mode. I also noted that they intermittently go from auto to heat or cool but this is less frequent. I'd be happy to talk to someone at smarthome with exact specifications of my a/c equipment and any other details that would help isolate this problem.

[jrini]

I recently had an HVAC system installed in my house. The house was built prior to WW 2. Every time the refrigerator turns on, the lights dim. The HVAC is on a completely different branch circuit and has no effect on the lighting branch circuits. I have yet to see any change in the 2441TH thermostat other than changes I implement thru the ISY or the buttons on the thermostat.

If I were having problems similar to the ones described in this topic, I would try a filter similar to the ACT AF300 20-Amp Low-Pass Filter. I looked for a higher amperage version of this low pass filter but did not see any listed.

[pgershon]

Has this been resolved. I have same issue with new 2441TH. Swapped devices with Smarthome already but unit still enters energy mode randomly 1-2 time per day. I have energy mode set to 1 degree change (could not get it to zero) but problem is still irritating. And unexplained.

 

Is there a way to send a command to enter or leave energy mode or to check the status? I use Indigo on a Mac and we cannot do this.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello pgershon,

 

Above and beyond what's already posted, we have not heard anything else.

 

Have you tried changing the AC adapter?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[pgershon]

I am going to try that over the next few days. I want to look at how power is being supplied now - not sure what kind of transformer I have - will look tonight. If a simple process, I will change that adaptor. The urgency is less now that I have gotten the setpoint delta in energy mode to be 1 degree and not 4 degrees. Having said that, I would like to get some resolution. It sounds like you made better progress with the Smarthome/Insteon folks than I did. All I was able to get was a replacement thermostat and the comment they have never seen the problem before (obviously untrue).

[MWareman]

I have energy mode set to 1 degree change (could not get it to zero)

 

How did you do that? I've been trying, but nobody at Smarthome has been able to point me to the setting.

[pgershon]

Done using Indigo on a Mac. The following python script did it (you could adapt I am sure):

 

 

degrees = 3

devaddr = indigo.devices["thermostat - downstairs"].address

reply = indigo.insteon.sendRawExtended(devaddr, [0x2E, 0x00, 0x01, 0x07, degrees], waitUntilAck=True)

indigo.server.log(str(reply))

[bh56]

I've had my 2441TH almost a year. Recently got a new furnace. Just started seeing the Energy Mode randomly getting switched on. Seems similar to others problems.

 

Didn't see that anyone ever solved their issues. Either by changing something with the ISY programs or getting a new 2441TH and it eventually getting fixed. Did Insteon every indicate there was a problem and/or fixed?

[MWareman]

I've had my 2441TH almost a year. Recently got a new furnace. Just started seeing the Energy Mode randomly getting switched on. Seems similar to others problems.

 

Didn't see that anyone ever solved their issues. Either by changing something with the ISY programs or getting a new 2441TH and it eventually getting fixed. Did Insteon every indicate there was a problem and/or fixed?

 

Personally, after 2 replacements of the 2441TH, I gave up, got a Trane Z-Wave device that has functioned perfectly, via a Vera until ISY has Z-Wave. It has functioned perfectly ever since.

 

Personally, Smarthomes attitude to this problem has caused me to always buy a Z-Wave device before an Insteon device if available.

 

If someone from Smarthome wants to have me try a fourth device, I'm happy to try and report. It will restore my faith. Why is it its only the 2441TH that has difficulty, where no other stat has caused problems on my furnace.

[GreyFox]

Shame on me for not reading the Forum before buying a new 2441TH. I have installed it in the past couple of days, and I am experiencing the same behavior as described by the rest of you in this thread: The energy saving mode turns itself on randomly, and the mode changes itself randomly as well. Based upon the collective comments of al of you, I have no doubt that the issue is entirely hardware/firmware, and has nothing to do with the ISY. It would appear that SmartHome has no interest in fixing its product. So, I have adopted the workaround supplied by pgershon - a pair of programs in the ISY to check that the 2441TH stays in the mode I have selected, and also holds the temperature I have selected.

 

As an aside, I find their documentation totally lacking. For example, how do you turn Hold off and on? How do you turn the daily program on and off? I am also surprised that Universal Devices hasn't added to its GUI management of energy mode, set-backs, etc. for this device.

 

So, my question is, before I jump from the frying pan into the fire, are all of these issues resolved with the Venstar T1800 combined with the Insteon adapter? With these two pieces installed, if I can connect to my ISY remotely, can I fully control the thermostat? Am I able to see somewhere what the ISY GUI control looks like? Are there other issues with the Venstar of which I should be aware?

[GreyFox]

Having created the program suggested by pgershon, I have been watching the behavior of my 2441TH. A few minutes ago, it activated the energy saving mode. In looking at the ISY interface for this device, there is no way to turn off or on the energy saving mode. It sure would be helpful if this could be added, as this would then allow me to programmatically regulate it as well. Any chance?

[shannong]

I'm also having this issue with 3 different 2441TH thermostats that are from two different production batches. This last one I didn't even add to ISY or any other controller to verify that it just does it on its own.

 

Do all those with this issue mind sharing what your HVAC system is? Also, do you use 5-wire from HVAC system or 4-wire with an "add a wire". I have a 5-wire setup.

 

I have a new case open with SH about this. They want me to collect some logs via HL. I don't see how that will help since it does it on it's own without interaction. HL will just show the changes being sent back.

 

I'll update with anything new that I learn.

[GreyFox]

HVAC is Rheem/Ruud. I replaced my 4 wire thermostat wiring with 5 wire.

[shannong]

Having created the program suggested by pgershon, I have been watching the behavior of my 2441TH. A few minutes ago, it activated the energy saving mode. In looking at the ISY interface for this device, there is no way to turn off or on the energy saving mode. It sure would be helpful if this could be added, as this would then allow me to programmatically regulate it as well. Any chance?

 

I thought the same thing at first, too. But if you are writing a program to change the temp why setting "Energy" mode On/Off then you could just as easily and with more flexibility tell it to change up/down by 4 degrees. Or 3. Or 2. etc.

 

The only reason I would want this ability right now is to combat the bug where Energy mode auto-magically turns itself on. Basically, I'd be asking for a feature to be added on ISY to combat a bug by Insteon. Didn't seem like a fair request.

 

I do wish that ISY would implement all features of Insteon products when they are added to the "supported" list.

[GreyFox]

I began having one of those 'feeling' that it is a power related issue (the 2441TH was getting it's power from my HVAC control board) and every time the HVAC fan turns on it caused a voltage dip (or spike) enough to trigger random happenings on the thermostat. So - I picked myself up a 24VAC transformer from radio shack and wired that to supply the thermostat with power. It completely solved my random changes (heat/cool/set points) - it's not happened once since. I figured that if anyone else gets into random changes - they should possibly look at the power supply as a potential source. IMO - Smart Home need to do better with the power circuitry in the 2441TH - but that's another story.

 

Michael, can you describe how exactly you changed this wiring. It seems to me you are risking combining the voltage of 24 volts from the furnace and 24 volts from the transformer. Also, how do you get an ISY program to run every 15 minutes? Thanks.

[GreyFox]

Shannong, it looks to me like the problem is that energy saving mode operates independent of the thermostat setting. It is similar to the functioning of thermostat calibration. The thermostat is constantly reading the ambient temperature, and the user is able to give it an offset by which demand for either heat or cooling is determined. The problem is that the thermostat does not change the set point that the ISY sees.

 

Michel, Universal-Devices could really help things by incorporating a control for this stupid energy saving feature into the ISY interface. How about it?

[shannong]

I think the issue is in the power circuits to be honest - when I powered the 2441TH from my HVAC - I would randomly get the stat changing setpoints, mode and leaf mode. I added a 24VAC transformer to power the 2441TH - and only the left mode symptom remains.

 

Michael.

 

Michael,

 

Can you please clarify the "left" mode that remains? Was that a typo that you're still having issues with Energy mode (leaf) enabling/disabling itself even with an external 24V power supply?

[shannong]

Shannong, it looks to me like the problem is that energy saving mode operates independent of the thermostat setting. It is similar to the functioning of thermostat calibration. The thermostat is constantly reading the ambient temperature, and the user is able to give it an offset by which demand for either heat or cooling is determined. The problem is that the thermostat does not change the set point that the ISY sees.

 

Michel, Universal-Devices could really help things by incorporating a control for this stupid energy saving feature into the ISY interface. How about it?

 

Agreed. It is independent.

 

However, my ISY did see the set point change when Energy mode magically turns on/off. ISY doesn't know about the Energy mode but when I looked in ISY it showed the lower/higher temperature of the set point that resulted. I can't test or validate that again right now though because I have my 2441TH linked with HL to send SH some logs.

[GreyFox]

Shannong, thanks for the reply. Hopefully Michel and Universal-Devices will come to our rescue.

[toflaherty]

I feel really bad for people who spend their hard earned money and precious time on this thing and its junk. At the same time I'm grateful for them posting on this forum to warn others. The thermostat was one of the things I was most excited about in getting an insteon system, but unfortunately I still don't have anything on my isy for hvac control yet. Here's to hoping the 2441th is redesigned soon with all of this overwhelming feedback about it.

 

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

[MWareman]

I think the issue is in the power circuits to be honest - when I powered the 2441TH from my HVAC - I would randomly get the stat changing setpoints, mode and leaf mode. I added a 24VAC transformer to power the 2441TH - and only the left mode symptom remains.

 

Michael.

 

Michael,

 

Can you please clarify the "left" mode that remains? Was that a typo that you're still having issues with Energy mode (leaf) enabling/disabling itself even with an external 24V power supply?

Yes, still had the issue. I gave up on the 2441th in the end after 2 replacements. Now running a Trane Z-Wave unit with zero issues, on the exact same furnace.

[shannong]

It would be nice to hear from others on the post what make/model their HVAC is.

 

Does anyone experiencing the problem with the changing set point as a result of the Energy mode engaging NOT have a gas furnace?