A new 2441TH issue

[pgershon]

I believe this is the transformer that had been used, or one very similar.  Had wired to the outer two terminals, not the one in the middle.

 

http://www.mgelectronics.com/shopexd.asp?id=291

[Torch4x4]

I had the problem of changing modes with no aprent reason and some restarts with the ignition, I didn't solved the problem 100% but minimized to just once a day or less, my problem was the wire in the thermostat compartiment, some crossed wires or rolled wires in the tstat compartiment were causing the problems, make sure the wires are straight from the wallhole directly to their screw with no extra wire or damaged wires.

[Torch4x4]

See the attached photo, with my thermostat anything different than this will result in restarts or changing modes, notice that wires aren't exposed at the screws/connector and wires aren't damaged or aren't somewere else in the thermostat compartment, I don't know if there's any way to change the connector or the wires and make them access the thermostat form the right side. or insulate those wires in that position.

 

But after this setup, just avoiding exposed wires, not crossed wires, not rolled in excess in the compartiment worked for me 100% in "auto mode", and almost all the time in "heat mode".

 

Before this I was having restarts and mode changes...

[shannong]

Your explanation would imply a few things.

 

1. The problem is EMF being EMITTED from the wires to affect thermostat.

2. The insulator around the conductor of the wire is itself an EMF shield.

 

I personally think that's not possible.  Perhaps the cleaning up the wires inside the thermostat has eliminated some cross-talk. It's worth noting you still have the problem since it's "almost all the time" in heat mode vs always. It just occuring less frequently.

 

My wiring looked like that with the problem still occurring although my issue was "Energy" mode turning itself on/off.

 

It is possible to buy EMF shielded wire and make a pigtail to connect inside your thermostat. Following with that, you'd also want to wrap the existing wiring in the wall with metal shield going up a foot or so. You could make an EMF shield with metal foil or any metal plate to sit between the wiring and the circuit board. 

 

The only solution I've seen work 100% is the one referenced above. Put an Ethernet noise filter in line.

[larryllix]

See the attached photo, with my thermostat anything different than this will result in restarts or changing modes, notice that wires aren't exposed at the screws/connector and wires aren't damaged or aren't somewere else in the thermostat compartment, I don't know if there's any way to change the connector or the wires and make them access the thermostat form the right side. or insulate those wires in that position.

 

But after this setup, just avoiding exposed wires, not crossed wires, not rolled in excess in the compartiment worked for me 100% in "auto mode", and almost all the time in "heat mode".

 

Before this I was having restarts and mode changes...

Try sliding a few small steel hex nuts over the W1 wire to give some impedance to high frequency voltage spikes.

[Torch4x4]

Your explanation would imply a few things.

 

1. The problem is EMF being EMITTED from the wires to affect thermostat.

2. The insulator around the conductor of the wire is itself an EMF shield.

 

I personally think that's not possible.  Perhaps the cleaning up the wires inside the thermostat has eliminated some cross-talk. It's worth noting you still have the problem since it's "almost all the time" in heat mode vs always. It just occuring less frequently.

 

My wiring looked like that with the problem still occurring although my issue was "Energy" mode turning itself on/off.

 

It is possible to buy EMF shielded wire and make a pigtail to connect inside your thermostat. Following with that, you'd also want to wrap the existing wiring in the wall with metal shield going up a foot or so. You could make an EMF shield with metal foil or any metal plate to sit between the wiring and the circuit board. 

 

The only solution I've seen work 100% is the one referenced above. Put an Ethernet noise filter in line.

 

Well, works for me in auto mode 100% considering that I been testing the unit for about 3 days without problems, the problem was noticed only one time in heat mode when I tested for the fisrt time, 1st and unique fail occurred after 12 hrs aprox. probably it was a random time and I need more time to test. 

Before that I was having the problem with almost every single cycle, all the time, returned one of the thermostats for the same failure, but when instaled the second one I noticed the same problem, same simptoms, and I was running the same problems for another 2 consecutive days.

For the solution the only change that I made was the wiring inside the thermostat compartment (green wire a little peeled off probably during the installation of the previous tmstat, wires crossed and rolled inside the thermostat, long wires exposed attached to the connector, even with that everything looked fine with the installation)

I feel lucky with my solution, but probably other thermostats have diferent issues not related with this.

I'm not an electronic/electric person but I think it was RF involved or cross-talk (I dont know too much about that, just the basics concepts) then I decided to re-route inside the thermostat it in a better way. I have a multimeter and noticed 27volts comming from my furnace. the brand of my furnace is weather King. I dont know what other information can help. will monitor the thermostat for more days.

[Torch4x4]

update.-

unfortunatelly I noticed changing modes 2 times over night, that means it was changing from auto to auto-(sleep, wake, leave, return), and from them a chage to off, that means the problem persists, probably is not hapening too much but the problem still there, is the first time that hapen in 3 or 4 days setting up the tstat to auto. it is working fine again but could hapen at any moment, could be in days or with the next cycle. will monitor this for more days.

[shannong]

Sorry to hear that. Good luck with your testing. It's been a source of frustration for many here.

[Torch4x4]

I solved the problem with less than $10 dlls.

http://www.amazon.com/Network-Signal-Lightning-Arrester-Protector/dp/B00548AGOI/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1422551976&sr=1-1&keywords=network+surge

 

or this

 

http://www.amazon.com/LRS01-E100-Aluminum-Ethernet-Network-Protector/dp/B00H8VA1L2/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1422553930&sr=1-4&keywords=network+surge

 

But those protectors only suppress 4 wires from the RJ45 the positions 1,2,3 and 6, and I used all of them with the furnace wiring except the 24V red, I didn't plugged the suppressor directly form the current wiring because is a different gauge and I used pigtails connectors from the current wiring to a patch cord Cat5 that I cut in 2 pieces because already has those RJ45's.

Using the 24V red wire on the surge protector results in short and and I have to replace the fuse from the furnace, but the surge protector works fine for the rest of the wires coming from the furnace the blue, white, green, yellow. is also important to wire the ground from the surge protector.

 

Now Heat mode or any other mode stays there and never change, thanks a lot shannong

[shannong]

Awesome that it's fixed!  Glad I could help. 

 

I used a spare surge suppressor I already had lying around. At some point I'm sure I spent $20 on it or so.

[zimtekcom]

2441TH - Ghost Button Input / Ghost Mode Change

(Random Mode Change, Random Button input - related to Dirty 24vAC power supply)

associated with Igniter related interference broadcast to the Thermostat through the thermostat wiring.

 

Thanks all for the good info on use of a surge suppressor,

what amazes me is how horribly designed this device is..  

And with that..

 

For Trouble Shooting:

Turn on the "Beep on button press" (#6 Below) - you will now be able to hear your thermostat "Ghost" input as it happens.

 

The workaround:

And if you can live with only using the phone (or windows) app to set the temperature and Mode... there is a simple work around.

The workaround is to disable the button input. Turn on the "Button Lock" (#7 Below).

 

Ridiculous I know - Unfortunately this is the limited way I've had to run this Thermostat (and it's RMA replacement) for the almost 2 years I've had these very disappointing Insteon products. 

 

http://cache.insteon.com/documentation/2441TH-en.pdf

 

User Setup Mode

1) Press and hold Program button to access the following options:

• Press Mode to step between menu items (sub-mode number will appear on top of the screen).

o Sub-mode 01: Display LED on-time select (default is 10 seconds)

o Sub-mode 02: Humidity low setpoint (default is 30%) Page 20 of 28 Rev: 4/21/2015 10:16 AM

o Sub-mode 03: Humidity high setpoint (default is 90%)

o Sub-mode 04: Temperature format select (default is Fahrenheit)

o Sub-mode 05: Beep on button press (default is Off)

o Sub-mode 06: Status LED (default is Off)

o Sub-mode 07: Button lock (default is Off)

o Sub-mode 08: Programming lock (default is Off)

o Sub-mode 09: Activation delay (default is 5 minutes)

 

Good luck everyone..!!

--Bill Zimmerman--

2441TH-en.pdf