no clue Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 I have tried a couple of different ways to set this up without success. I would like to gradually ramp up the light in her room to full brightness over 9 mintutes starting at 6:21 am every morning M-F. I attached a screenshot of the current program. It seems simple to me but I am missing something.
LeeG Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 Two things. SmartLabs has changed the 9 minute Ramp Rate to 0.2 seconds on most devices. Use 8 minutes as it is hard to tell the difference between an 8 and 9 minute ramp up. Second, the Adjust Scene is only changing the Responder Ramp Rate. It is not actually turning the Scene On. Another statement is needed to actually turn the Scene On. Actually I just saw another problem. The Else will never execute. When a single explicit time triggers the Program with a True condition driving the Then clause, nothing triggers the Program Else clause.
no clue Posted November 2, 2012 Author Posted November 2, 2012 Two things. SmartLabs has changed the 9 minute Ramp Rate to 0.2 seconds on most devices. Use 8 minutes as it is hard to tell the difference between an 8 and 9 minute ramp up. Second, the Adjust Scene is only changing the Responder Ramp Rate. It is not actually turning the Scene On. Another statement is needed to actually turn the Scene On. Actually I just saw another problem. The Else will never execute. When a single explicit time triggers the Program with a True condition driving the Then clause, nothing triggers the Program Else clause. I changed the rate and then added a "then" action to turn on the scene. I removed the "else" statement. At this point, should I create a second program to turn off the scene at 9am?
LeeG Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 The Set Scene xxxx On has to be done after the Adjust Scene. The simple approach to turning the Scene Off is to add a Wait after the Set Scene On for the time difference between 6:21 and 9:00, with a Set Scene Off (or Fast Off if light should turn Off without the slow Ramp Down) following the Wait. Note that the Adjust Scene is changing the Responder Ramp Rate in the Responder device to 8 minutes until and unless it is changed to something different with another Program or changed with the Admin Console. If the Scene is to be used at other times with a faster Ramp Rate another Adjust Scene could be coded after the Wait or after the Set Scene Off to restore the normal Scene Responder Ramp Rate. If the Scene is always used at the 8 minute Ramp Rate the Adjust Scene(s) can be removed altogether. Use the Admin Console to change the Responder Ramp Rate to 8 minutes for that Scene.
no clue Posted November 2, 2012 Author Posted November 2, 2012 The Set Scene xxxx On has to be done after the Adjust Scene. The simple approach to turning the Scene Off is to add a Wait after the Set Scene On for the time difference between 6:21 and 9:00, with a Set Scene Off (or Fast Off if light should turn Off without the slow Ramp Down) following the Wait. Note that the Adjust Scene is changing the Responder Ramp Rate in the Responder device to 8 minutes until and unless it is changed to something different with another Program or changed with the Admin Console. If the Scene is to be used at other times with a faster Ramp Rate another Adjust Scene could be coded after the Wait or after the Set Scene Off to restore the normal Scene Responder Ramp Rate. If the Scene is always used at the 8 minute Ramp Rate the Adjust Scene(s) can be removed altogether. Use the Admin Console to change the Responder Ramp Rate to 8 minutes for that Scene. I think I have it and it makes sense to me. Thanks for your help as always.
apostolakisl Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 Rather than changing the scene ramp rate 2x per day, I would have suggested simply making 2 scenes. Both scenes have the exact same switches in them. 1) Scene 1 would be your normal use scene. This is the one that will have the switches as controllers and the regular ramp rate. 2) Scene 2 will have no controllers (only responders). This scene has an 8 minute ramp rate and will be activated only by your wake up program. By changing the ramp rate, you will not only be affecting the lights turning on by the program, but also if someone manually turns the light on during that time period. So lets say Olivia wakes up when the light is just starting to ramp up and wants full light, the only way to get the light on full brightness right away will be to go to the load switch and "fast on" it. NOTE: If your daughters light only has a single switch, then you need only make one scene. This is the 8 minute ramp rate scene. For manual use, the switch just works according to the "applied locally" settings and no scene is needed. This is how I have it for my daughters bedrooms since the overhead room light has only one switch.
LeeG Posted November 3, 2012 Posted November 3, 2012 I have to interject here. Setting the Responder Ramp Rate for the SwitchLinc when the PLM is the Controller (controlling the ISY Scene with a Program) does NOT affect the Local On Level or Local Ramp Rate of the SwitchLinc. If the Local Ramp Rate is 0.2 seconds tapping the paddle once will bring the load up in 0.2 seconds. The Local Ramp Rate and Local On Level can be changed with an Adjust Scene but it has to be coded to change the Local values. Changing the Responder values does not change the Local values.
apostolakisl Posted November 4, 2012 Posted November 4, 2012 I have to interject here. Setting the Responder Ramp Rate for the SwitchLinc when the PLM is the Controller (controlling the ISY Scene with a Program) does NOT affect the Local On Level or Local Ramp Rate of the SwitchLinc. If the Local Ramp Rate is 0.2 seconds tapping the paddle once will bring the load up in 0.2 seconds. The Local Ramp Rate and Local On Level can be changed with an Adjust Scene but it has to be coded to change the Local values. Changing the Responder values does not change the Local values. Yes, you are correct. But there must be multiple switches controlling that light, or there would be no need for a scene at all. All the switches aside from the load switch would get stuck with that super long ramp rate even if locally controlled. The point still stands. I really think it is a better solution to create a scene that is solely for the purpose of running the 8 minute ramp rate for the wakeup alarm rather than reprogramming the switch 2x per day and rendering the other scene controllers stuck with the 8 minute ramp during that time.
LeeG Posted November 4, 2012 Posted November 4, 2012 I was not expressing an opinion about using two Scenes. Only that using Adjust Scene to change a Responder Ramp Rate has no affect on the Local Ramp Rate. A Scene is needed if the SwitchLinc Local Ramp Rate is one value and the Responder Ramp Rate is another. An Insteon Direct command cannot specify an override Ramp Rate. I would think the Local Ramp Rate would be faster so that fast full bright can be had with a simple paddle press. The point of the Program is to wake the person. Once up it could be desirable to turn the light On at a normal Ramp Rate, not having to learn a double tap to override an 8 minute Local Ramp Rate. The OP can decide what functions to use. It is useful to know what impact a Responder Ramp Rate setting has and what impact it does not have.
apostolakisl Posted November 4, 2012 Posted November 4, 2012 I was not expressing an opinion about using two Scenes. Only that using Adjust Scene to change a Responder Ramp Rate has no affect on the Local Ramp Rate. A Scene is needed if the SwitchLinc Local Ramp Rate is one value and the Responder Ramp Rate is another. An Insteon Direct command cannot specify an override Ramp Rate. I would think the Local Ramp Rate would be faster so that fast full bright can be had with a simple paddle press. The point of the Program is to wake the person. Once up it could be desirable to turn the light On at a normal Ramp Rate, not having to learn a double tap to override an 8 minute Local Ramp Rate. The OP can decide what functions to use. It is useful to know what impact a Responder Ramp Rate setting has and what impact it does not have. My point was directed at the OP in that I think he would be better served to take a different approach. Having a scene dedicated to the purpose of morning wakeup is simple and clean, it avoids un-intended consequences, and it avoids errors in re-writing the switch that can occur, especially if someone tries to use the switch while it is re-programming or if other Insteon/ISY activity coincides with the re-write.
LeeG Posted November 4, 2012 Posted November 4, 2012 I think it is great to present alternate approaches. I happen to agree that using a separate Scene for the 8 minute Ramp Rate is the preferred approach all things considered. My concerns are justifying the alternative with inaccuracies. “By changing the ramp rate, you will not only be affecting the lights turning on by the program, but also if someone manually turns the light on during that time period. So lets say Olivia wakes up when the light is just starting to ramp up and wants full light, the only way to get the light on full brightness right away will be to go to the load switch and "fast on" it.†These statements are just plain wrong. Changing the Responder Ramp Rate of the SwitchLinc for the PLM as Controller only affects the SwitchLinc when it is a Responder to the PLM. It does not affect manual switch operation. It does not prevent a single manual paddle press from turning the light On with whatever Local Ramp Rate was established for the SwitchLinc (without a Fast On double tap). Nor does it affect turning the SwitchLinc On from another Controller if there are other Controllers of the Scene. The SwitchLinc as a Responder has a unique On Level and Ramp Rate for each Controller. Changing the Ramp Rate for the PLM Controller does not affect any other Controller of the same Scene. “But there must be multiple switches controlling that light, or there would be no need for a scene at all.†Again, a wrong statement of fact. A Scene is needed even if there are no other Controllers of the SwitchLinc. An Insteon Direct command cannot directly tell the SwitchLinc to Ramp On at an 8 minute Ramp Rate. Only a Scene with a Responder Ramp Rate of 8 minutes for the SwitchLinc can do that. It would also be informative to mention the use of the additional Scene increases the number of link records in the PLM. In an installation where the number of PLM link records is a concern the extra Scene link records could be factor to consider. The point about the extra Insteon traffic to change the Ramp Rate could be a failure point is good information and supports the use of two Scenes. It takes three Insteon commands to change the Ramp Rate for older devices. It takes one Insteon command for the newer I2CS devices. “if other Insteon/ISY activity coincides with the re-write.†Other Insteon traffic should not affect the Insteon Direct commands that change the Ramp Rate. no clue My apologies for all this additional exchange. I just hate to see factually incorrect information being relayed. I’m getting off this topic unless or until you have additional questions.
no clue Posted November 4, 2012 Author Posted November 4, 2012 no clue My apologies for all this additional exchange. I just hate to see factually incorrect information being relayed. I’m getting off this topic unless or until you have additional questions. No apologies needed. All of it is actually helpful with regard to programming. Starting from scratch, I have learned quite a bit about the actual wiring of the various switches. The programming is a whole different ball of wax and while it seemed logical at first glance, I have run into problems along the way and all of the discussion is very helpful in putting the pieces together. Now, I'm just waiting for Monday to come along to get the first real test of the program.
apostolakisl Posted November 4, 2012 Posted November 4, 2012 Lee, I grant you I made a mistake answering a little too quick on one point. But the point about there being more switches still holds. There would be no point in him changing the ramp rate if there were not more than one switch. If there were only one switch, he would just leave the scene at 8 minutes all the time since presumably nothing else would be activating that scene. I suppose there could be multiple responders and thus a need for scene, but that is generally not how a bedroom is setup.
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