New Elk M1 Install Suggestions

[ejh3]

Can I get a few suggestions on what else I might need to put together my alarm system.

 

Below is what I currently have in my job list:

 

1- ELK-M1GSYS4S (Includes Board, LCD Keypad, Enclosure, Battery, Transformer, Speaker and surge protector)

1- ELK-M1XRFTW Wireless Reciever

11-ELK-6021 Wireless Slimline Window Sensor

3- ELK-106063 Slimline Motion Detector

 

Universal Device ELK Module (is this necessary?)

 

 

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions,

Ed

[elvisimprsntr]

fortunately for me house was pre-wired for an alarm, but here are some addition things you might want to pick up.

 

1. M1XEP ethernet expansion module - so you can control you alarm over IP

- i removed mine from the enclosure and eliminated the power brick by connecting to the main board 12V output.

- use the free Elk RP Windows software to program the Elk

- control both the ISY and ELK using iOS mobile apps like eKeyPad Pro or Mobilinc

2. The ISY Elk module is not necessary, but allows you to control the Elk through the ISY.

- I am using the ISY REST interface to control my ISY and ELK using Siri Voice Commands

- viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7676&start=45

 

Next you will need to decide what programs reside in the Elk vs the ISY. I put event based programs in the Elk since those tend not to change and timer based events in the ISY. e.g. Elk: open door at night, turn on appropriate exterior light. ISY: turn on/off lights in the house at appropriate times.

 

NOTE: Elk made a press release of a planned future firmware update aka 2.0 for the M1Gold to provide better integration with paid cloud services which may affect integration with the ISY.

 

 

Elvis

[Scottmichaelj]

So I finally finished building my new home and wondering the same thing. However with my home I prewired everything and plan on going the ISY/Insteon/Elk route for home automation. So since I am a noob and never have used Elk I thought I would ask the forum what you suggest. Looks like the first thing to to build around the Elk M1 Gold panel and then going with the M1EZ8 control pads since this will allow me to also control/add features/functions to the ISY. It also looks like I will need a ELK-M1XEP for outside remote control and ELK-M1XRFTW so I can use wireless on my windows/sliding window doors? I dont need/want thermostat controls since I am already using/setup with Honeywell Prestige system and of course lighting will be done via ISY/Insteon. Anything I am missing or should get?

[apostolakisl]

So I finally finished building my new home and wondering the same thing. However with my home I prewired everything and plan on going the ISY/Insteon/Elk route for home automation. So since I am a noob and never have used Elk I thought I would ask the forum what you suggest. Looks like the first thing to to build around the Elk M1 Gold panel and then going with the M1EZ8 control pads since this will allow me to also control/add features/functions to the ISY. It also looks like I will need a ELK-M1XEP for outside remote control and ELK-M1XRFTW so I can use wireless on my windows/sliding window doors? I dont need/want thermostat controls since I am already using/setup with Honeywell Prestige system and of course lighting will be done via ISY/Insteon. Anything I am missing or should get?

 

 

Not sure what you mean by m1ez8 control pads. The m1ez8 is the mini version of the m1gold, it's not a keypad. The only piece of hardware you need to integrate Elk with ISY is the xep unit so it can connect to the network. You'll also want the Elk module for ISY so you can get full integration between the two. The keypads are just another place to control your Elk, the fancier keypads aren't really necessary in my opinion since you can control the higher level stuff a lot easier from your computer/tablet/smartphone.

 

It's too bad if you just built a home and you didn't pull wires everywhere since it is a better solution than going with wireless. But if you have to use wireless window/door sensors, you can get the Elk brand, or you can go with GE Caddx.

[Scottmichaelj]

Not sure what you mean by m1ez8 control pads. The m1ez8 is the mini version of the m1gold, it's not a keypad. The only piece of hardware you need to integrate Elk with ISY is the xep unit so it can connect to the network. You'll also want the Elk module for ISY so you can get full integration between the two. The keypads are just another place to control your Elk, the fancier keypads aren't really necessary in my opinion since you can control the higher level stuff a lot easier from your computer/tablet/smartphone.

 

It's too bad if you just built a home and you didn't pull wires everywhere since it is a better solution than going with wireless. But if you have to use wireless window/door sensors, you can get the Elk brand, or you can go with GE Caddx.

 

I was meaning the touchscreen keypads. I know they are a bit on the expensive side but I was thinking that it maybe better/expansive for the lighting controls etc to have them. This way in the future they can do more than a normal keypad could and maybe a bit more WAF. My main front, garage and garage rollup doors are hardwired along with glass breaks in each room. I was going to pull wired to each window and slider however the window and door manufacturer said that if I drilled into the frames that it would void the warranty. I asked the builder if I could change to another window manu who wouldnt void the warranty however they said NO and was told most other manu of windows/doors also do the same thing. Maybe it was BS but that ship has sailed. Now I am just trying to find the smallest unobtrusive wireless sensor that will work with ELK.

 

Thanks for your input.

[Scottmichaelj]

Just another noob question but can the M1XEP work with cell backup as well together? I am thinking about getting an Uplink cell backup. Do I need to buy two or get a M1-XSP?

[dlamb]

The ELK-M1XSP (serial port expander) is the device that is needed for adding the Uplink cellular alarm communicator to your ELK system. It connects to the data bus.

 

Regards,

Don Lamb

ELK Products, Inc.

[Scottmichaelj]

If anyone wants to make some money and help a Elk noob with planning, installation and programming the Elk and ISY please PM me. I will pay via paypal and I just need phone support.

[apostolakisl]

Just another noob question but can the M1XEP work with cell backup as well together? I am thinking about getting an Uplink cell backup. Do I need to buy two or get a M1-XSP?

 

I prefer the HAI C3 unit. It converts cellular to a regular "Pots" type dial tone. The Elk calls out like usual (as if it were connected to a land line) and the C3 converts it to cellular. This allows you to avoid having the special monitoring contracts necessary for an uplink that cost extra, avoids extra configuration, and avoids needing to buy an xsp module. Personally I use the C3 as my one and only method of dialing out (I don't have a land line at all) and Alarm Relay as my monitoring company. You do need to buy your cell service from ATT or T-mobile as it requires a GSM card. I use ATT $100/year prepaid plan which gives me 1000 minutes of which I might use a couple hundred.

[Scottmichaelj]

Just another noob question but can the M1XEP work with cell backup as well together? I am thinking about getting an Uplink cell backup. Do I need to buy two or get a M1-XSP?

 

I prefer the HAI C3 unit. It converts cellular to a regular "Pots" type dial tone. The Elk calls out like usual (as if it were connected to a land line) and the C3 converts it to cellular. This allows you to avoid having the special monitoring contracts necessary for an uplink that cost extra, avoids extra configuration, and avoids needing to buy an xsp module. Personally I use the C3 as my one and only method of dialing out (I don't have a land line at all) and Alarm Relay as my monitoring company. You do need to buy your cell service from ATT or T-mobile as it requires a GSM card. I use ATT $100/year prepaid plan which gives me 1000 minutes of which I might use a couple hundred.

 

Ah yes the "cell backup hot topic" which device is better. Seems each person has a different view on this. I am using an ObiHai 220 VOIP telephone (via Internet connection) so not sure if the Elk will work with it then use the cell for backup. Still need to figure this all out. I am afraid I will be lazy and choose whatever the person who ends up helping me, if I can find someone, get it setup. Thanks for the info I am still researching but I also need to get something going sooner than later.

[MWareman]

Indeed. VoIP won't likely work in case of a cable cut before entry scenario though.

 

I recently got the HAI c3 though. Neat device, I get dial tone and can dial using a pots handset via cell. I have not got Elk dialing successfully yet though.

[apostolakisl]

Indeed. VoIP won't likely work in case of a cable cut before entry scenario though.

 

I recently got the HAI c3 though. Neat device, I get dial tone and can dial using a pots handset via cell. I have not got Elk dialing successfully yet though.

 

VoiIP is a bad choice for alarm. First off it often times simply doesn't work as the compression algorithms simply fail to accurately convey the dtmf tones and you get notta. Just for fun, I tried seeing if my obi would transmit Elk signals. .. it didn't work. Secondly, unless you have enterprise grade internet, your reliability rate will be pretty low as compared to other systems. There are just too many components that can go offline for random reasons.

 

The HAI C3 should not require anything special at all to work with the Elk. Just plug it in and go. What issues are you having?

[Scottmichaelj]

Thanks for the input. I will think long and hard and prob go with C3 recommendations since its proven to work.

 

I am not having issues per say just trying to run my setup by someone who knows this stuff so I dont have to rebuy anything or miss anything. It would also be great to have someone help walk me through setting everything up and programming. I just still dont understand how the modules interact with each other, etc. If i were to talk to someone Im sure I would get it then.

 

Since we are on topic can you help answer these questions?

 

-What wireless sensor is smaller or better, the Elk 6021 or 6020? Or is there another brand I can use thats maybe smaller?

-What are the recommendations for a wired PIR and that is good pet immune?

-I could use recommendations for wired door sensors that are small.

-Anyone use the outdoor Honeywell 5816OD and Elk? I need gate warnings for outside. Whats the range on these or how can I extend it if needed?

 

Not looking for cheap, looking for quality and what works. I want to do it right the first time.

[apostolakisl]

C3 vs Uplink

 

Installation:

C3 needs power and the phone wire from Elk plugs directly into it

Uplink needs power and the Elk serial interface (xsp) which it plugs into

 

Configuration on Elk:

C3 none. Uses same configuration as regular phone

Uplink requires you set up different configuration for it

 

Cellular Subscription:

C3 GSM card from ATT or T-mobile (possibly other carriers in your local) $100/year

Uplink cellular service is provided by your monitoring company, plan prices vary.

 

Signal Supervision:

C3 provides dial tone voltage to Elk. If voltage drops out (unit loses power or dies), Elk will go into trouble mode and alert you. If cell service lost due to tower outage there is no warning.

Uplink keeps a heartbeat with the cellular signal. If this goes out or the unit shuts down, Elk will alert with trouble.

Note: Uplink has better supervision of cellular link to central station, but I don't really see any need to be notified if your cellular link goes down since I can't fix a broken cell tower anyway. Both C3 and Uplink have high powered antennas that are mounted separately and unless you really live in the boonies, both will likely get strong signals from multiple towers. Uplink uses the data band of cellular service which may be more reliable if the cell network is overwhelmed with voice users.

 

Power Supervision:

C3 has a built-in backup battery, but this is not supervised. I suggest using an external supervised power supply with a UPS that is tested and supervised.

Uplink only option is to use an external power supply. Again, I suggest using a supervised UPS backup.

Note: It may be possible to power the C3 or Uplink directly from the Elk's power (which of course has a battery which is monitored). You would have to do the amperage calculations. It may be way too much, I just don't know.

 

Added benefits:

C3 and Uplink can both be used as the primary/only connection to central station

C3 can also double as a voice line connection to your house or Elk. Elk has dial-in functionality (arm/disarm/other stuff) which can be accessed just the same as if you were dialing into Elk with a regular land-line. Also, Elk can use the C3 for dial out function like voice alerts during alarms phoned to your cell phone. Also, the C3 unit can be wired into your whole house giving you a dial tone on regular phones that passes through to cellular.

[Scottmichaelj]

Can someone post a link to the prepaid AT&T service/setup for the C3? I already have a AT&T account - wouldnt it be better to just add the $9 per month to my share plan?

[MWareman]

I have the $100/yr T-Mobile plan. I would love a 100/yr AT&T instead - better coverage at my house. I cannot find that one either. Only monthly plans.

[apostolakisl]

Can someone post a link to the prepaid AT&T service/setup for the C3? I already have a AT&T account - wouldnt it be better to just add the $9 per month to my share plan?

 

It would be slightly more expensive, but you would get a lot more minutes for the money. For me, that is irrelevant since I only use a couple hundred of my 1000 minutes. Mostly it is just the test call minutes and the rare false alarm.

[apostolakisl]

I have the $100/yr T-Mobile plan. I would love a 100/yr AT&T instead - better coverage at my house. I cannot find that one either. Only monthly plans.

 

 

 

I just go to the ATT store and use the kiosk. It is slightly cheaper this way since the they take your $100 even and then subtract minutes to pay the taxes but still give you the 365 expiration. They give you a few less minutes than 1000, but I don't need them. The kiosk is located very conveniently for me as it is next to a grocery store I visit often.

 

from http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp ... bWpB2yILRE

 

Refill your GoPhone account

You can add money to your GoPhone account in a number of convenient ways.

Important Note

Refill before your current balance expires and the balance carries over to the new expiration date.

Auto Refill

Website

By Phone

GoPhone Refill Cards or Pin Receipts

Text to Refill

Auto Refill is the easiest way to refill your GoPhone account.

Go to att.com/mygophone and select Auto Refill. Then simply choose the amount and how often you would like to have your GoPhone account automatically refilled using your credit card, debit card or checking account.

Website - Log in at att.com/mygophone.

Phone - Dial 611 from your wireless phone or 800.901.9878 from a landline and say "Add Money".

GoPhone Refill Cards - available at AT&T stores and at over 200,000 retail locations nationwide.

Simply follow instructions on the back of the card to add money to your account. You can add the pin value to your account in several ways:

With most cards, you can add the value using your wireless phone keypad by entering *888*Pin Number #, and then press SEND

Log onto att.com/mygophone

Dial 611 from your wireless phone (or 800.901.9878 from a landline) and say "Add Money"

Available Amounts for GoPhone Refill Cards

$10 - Expires after 30 days

$15 - Expires after 30 days

$25 - Expires after 90 days

$50 - Expires after 90 days

$65 - Expires after 90 days

$100 - Expires after 365 days

[MWareman]

Nice - thanks!

[Scottmichaelj]

Lame question but how do you get the sim card? Do you have to buy a phone with a compatible sim card for the C3? If so what kind if sim card? Or does the C3 come with a sim card and you give AT&T the sim card info? Or is it based on theIMEI number of the C3 device and that gets recognized somehow?

[apostolakisl]

Lame question but how do you get the sim card? Do you have to buy a phone with a compatible sim card for the C3? If so what kind if sim card? Or does the C3 come with a sim card and you give AT&T the sim card info? Or is it based on theIMEI number of the C3 device and that gets recognized somehow?

 

ATT gave me the sim card at the ATT store. The C3 does not come with one. Each network has their own sim cards.

[Scottmichaelj]

Did they charge you or give you one free?

[Scottmichaelj]

Just wanted to post back with a thank you for all who helped me. My ELK alarm system is now installed and I went with the Leviton/HAI C3 Cell Backup. I did have issues with AT&T setting up the C3 device (plus the first one was defective as I couldnt get a cell signal) but all is working now. AT&T 800 customer service was horrible but went into the store, they gave me a free sim and hooked it up without any issues. I would recommend anyone setting up the C3 on AT&T go into the store, calling the 800 number was a nightmare. I have been self monitoring it for the last month or two to make sure of false alarms, quirks, configuration mistakes on my part for before signing up with a monitoring company. Now looking/taking suggestions for a good monitoring company.

[apostolakisl]

Glad to hear you get it set up. I would agree that going to the ATT store is a far better option. Like you, they gave me the sim card instead of charging and they activated it on the spot.

[Scottmichaelj]

Glad to hear you get it set up. I would agree that going to the ATT store is a far better option. Like you, they gave me the sim card instead of charging and they activated it on the spot.

 

Mind if I ask who you use to monitor it or recommend?