mcrean Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 I posted this before, but I have had no resolution. I am at a loss. These 3 programs are in a folder that enables at 10:00 PM. For the first program, I have tried Deck Spots is Off along with Not On. 10:01 Deck Spots Status If Time is 10:01:00PM And Status 'Deck Spots' is not On Then Run Program 'Deck Spots Turns Off Night' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Deck Spots Turns Off Night: If Control 'KeypadLinc A (Deck Spots)' is switched Off Then Wait 1 hour Set 'Malibu Lights' On Wait 4 minutes Set 'Malibu Lights' Off Wait 1 minute Set Scene 'Deck Spots Button' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Deck Spots Turns On Night: If Control 'KeypadLinc A (Deck Spots)' is switched On Then Stop program 'Deck Spots Turns Off Night' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') When I test this setup, say set the 'If' time to two minutes away and then have the Deck Spots Off, it works fine. If I even test the whole setup, folder enables 2 minutes from now and 'If' time 3 minutes from now, it works too. When I put the program in actual play (the times noted in the code) it does not work. Tonight I turned off the deck spots at 7:00 PM and after 10:01, the Deck Spots Turns Off Night was not "Running Then". Am I doing something wrong?
Chris Jahn Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 To fix your problem, remove 'Deck Spot Status' from the Folder because it doesn't need to be controlled by the Folder conditions anyway. As for why it isn't working, I'd have to see the exact Folder conditions and see if I can recreate the problem. You are correct in assuming that if the Folder enables programs to run at 10:00PM, then your 'Deck Spots Status' program should run at 10:01PM if 'Deck Spots' is not On.
mcrean Posted March 12, 2008 Author Posted March 12, 2008 Are you saying that when the folder opens up, the Deck Spots Turns Off Night will automatically run? I was hoping the status request would trigger the hour timer. The reason for this setup is if I turn off the deck spots to go sit in the spa, I want to not worry about having to turn them back on if I forget. If I am in the spa too long. the malibu lights flash to warn me the spots are looming. If I turn the deck spots off in the evening for a party, I just don't want them coming on until 11:00PM (Or if I hit the A button first). But If I go in the spa say at 10:50, I do not want them coming on in 10 minutes. The Folder parameters are: Folder Conditions for 'Deck Spots Night' Add conditions to limit when programs in this folder are allowed to run. If From 10:00:00PM To Sunrise (next day) Then Allow the programs in this folder to run. The other folder I have, which is not really needed: Folder Conditions for 'Deck Spots Day' Add conditions to limit when programs in this folder are allowed to run If From Sunrise To 10:00:00PM (same day) Then Allow the programs in this folder to run. The Programs in the Day folder are If Turns Off/On Then do Nothing.
IndyMike Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 mcrean, As Chris indicated, I don't see anything incorrect with your programs. I tested the Deck Spot Status and folder conditions and everything appeared to work properly. You mentioned that "you turned the deck spots off at 7:00 and at 10:01, the Deck Spots Turns off Night was not running" - 1) Was the folder running (true) at that point. Is it possible you switched the night and day conditions between folders? I don't mean to insult your intelligence. I bring it up because I've made this mistake (multiple occasions). 2) How did you "turn off" the deck spots (ISY or at the switch). Is it possible that there is a noise source that prevented the ISY from registering the "off event"? Short of that, I don't see any problem. I do have a couple of observations (unrelated): 1) Beware of the condition "And Status 'Deck Spots' is not On". A level between 1% and 99% is considered "not on". You may want to change this to a status of "off". 2) The time conditions between your two folders have a possibility of overlapping (not sure how the ISY handles this). Chris would be far more knowledgeable here, but I typically use a underlap of 1min between daytime and nighttime conditions. IM
mcrean Posted March 13, 2008 Author Posted March 13, 2008 Ok, I have deleted the day folder altogether. I stated in the first post that it works fine when tested "On The Bench" so to speak. I tested the program six ways from Sunday on the bench and had positive results. I verified that I did not switch the folder times. In fact the program runs fine if I switch off the scene after 10:00 PM. The folder shows true after 10:00 PM. I turn off the deck spots at the keypadlinc. The ISY will show the status as Off for the module. No times have I looked and that particular status disagreed with the actual module state. I even had a query program running right before the Deck Spots status and it did not help. I have tried both Not On and Off. So at this point, the only thing new for tonight is the non-overlapping folders, and making sure the status is Off (not "Not ON"). I have deleted the day folder. Is there anything else you can think of? I urge you to try the program as written and let it go for the night and see if it did indeed work the next morning. If it works, then make no changes and try again tomorrow night. I will let you know if deleting the folder helped.
mcrean Posted March 13, 2008 Author Posted March 13, 2008 Tonight the program ran properly. We will see tomorrow night...
IndyMike Posted March 13, 2008 Posted March 13, 2008 mcrean, If I had to guess, I'd say that the original failure was due to your Insten Device not properly communicating a off status to the ISY. Last night, when you monitored the conditions and status, everything worked properly (as it should). This could be due to general noise/signal absorption in the vicinity of the Insteon device (reducing margin) or it could be something that is turning on at night (cfl's and outdoor photocells that activate at night are prime candidates). Keep us posted, IM
mcrean Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 Ok, so it worked last night and is not working tonight. I have verified the following: The Deck Spots module shows Off in ISY. (I shut it off via KeypadLinc at around 7PM) The Folder is showing True right now (After 10) The last run for the Deck Spots Status is 10:01PM 3/13/2008 (Tonight) and Status shows False (expected). The last run for Deck Spots Turns Off Night is at 10:01 PM 3/12/2008 (Last night). (BUT SHOWS TRUE RIGHT NOW!) Did that Sunrise(Next Day) bug ever get worked out? I came across a post about someone using the (Same Day) and it worked, but (Next Day) did not. I think it is a bug...
yardman 49 Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Ok, so it worked last night and is not working tonight. I have verified the following: The Deck Spots module shows Off in ISY. (I shut it off via KeypadLinc at around 7PM) The Folder is showing True right now (After 10) The last run for the Deck Spots Status is 10:01PM 3/13/2008 (Tonight) and Status shows False (expected). The last run for Deck Spots Turns Off Night is at 10:01 PM 3/12/2008 (Last night). (BUT SHOWS TRUE RIGHT NOW!) I think it is a bug... It's possible that it is a bug. Not long ago I had problems with some programs that I had running in a folder. They would sometimes work, and sometimes not. I thought that maybe I was just constructing the programs incorrectly. I had two types of conditionals, with the programs using Time conditionals, and then the programs being placed in a folder that utilized a KPL button Control conditional. Functionality was so intermittent that I finally had to remove them from the folder, and build AND conditionals directly into each program. Only then everything finally started working properly and consistently. I figured that if it wasn't just me, that sooner or later someone would stumble across the same problem. So maybe you have indeed done so. Best wishes,
IndyMike Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 mcrean, First, I apologize for my last post - I had missed the fact that you had aleady taken steps to correlate the ISY status with your KPL. From your post below, I'm not sure where You believe the problem is - Ok, so it worked last night and is not working tonight. I have verified the following: The Deck Spots module shows Off in ISY. (I shut it off via KeypadLinc at around 7PM) The Folder is showing True right now (After 10) The last run for the Deck Spots Status is 10:01PM 3/13/2008 (Tonight) and Status shows False (expected). Actually, I would have expected the Deck Spots Status program to show "True". If Time is 10:01:00PM And Status 'Deck Spots' is not On Then Run Program 'Deck Spots Turns Off Night' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') The "event" in the above is the Time 10:01:00PM. At that time the entire conditional is evaluated. It will retain that evaluation until it is retriggered (10:01 the next day, or the deck spots are activated). I would expect this to show "true" if your spots were off at 10:01PM. A false indication indicates the "then" was not executed. Please try the following : If From 10:01:00PM For 1 minute And Status 'Deck Spots' is not On Then Run Program 'Deck Spots Turns Off Night' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') The last run for Deck Spots Turns Off Night is at 10:01 PM 3/12/2008 (Last night). (BUT SHOWS TRUE RIGHT NOW!) Assuming that you did not turn your Deck Spots on while the folder was active, I believe the "True" is correct for this program. If Control 'KeypadLinc A (Deck Spots)' is switched Off Then Wait 1 hour Set 'Malibu Lights' On Wait 4 minutes Set 'Malibu Lights' Off Wait 1 minute Set Scene 'Deck Spots Button' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Like the program above, this is showing the status of the last call (event) on 3/12/2008. Since you are calling the "Then" statement directly, is has no choice but to reflect a "true" status. As I indicated above, the then loop was not called on 3/13. Did that Sunrise(Next Day) bug ever get worked out? I came across a post about someone using the (Same Day) and it worked, but (Next Day) did not. I think it is a bug... You may be referring to a discussion between myself and Linuxguy. If that's the case, we were not discussing a "bug" in the nextday condition. We were discussing the fact that it's not possible to troubleshoot a nextday condition (other than letting the clock run). I use this condition in many folders and programs and don't have an issue. From your description, your folder appears to be enabling correctly. Please try adding the "1 minute window" to your program. I will try checking some things tonight. IM
mcrean Posted March 14, 2008 Author Posted March 14, 2008 Indy Mike, Thank you for your continued help. I have put in the minute timer as you requested and made it "Not On". I will let you know. Michael
IndyMike Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Michael, To be honest, if the "1 minute" suggestion works I won't be able to explain why. All I can say is that this is the way that I structure my schedules (definite time period). I still don't see anything "wrong" with your original (single ended) schedule. I have three different versions of your schedule running now. They all functioned as I expected at 2:30PM today. We'll see what happens tomorrow. IM
IndyMike Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Frank, I've been a bit remiss in not posting this earlier - nice to have you back guy! Your AWOL period must have invigorated you - you've been active (to the forums benefit). In regard to your post regarding folder/program schedules, if you have some examples that you could provide, I'd be happy to spend some time running tests. My curiosity has been "peaked". IM
yardman 49 Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Frank, I've been a bit remiss in not posting this earlier - nice to have you back guy! Your AWOL period must have invigorated you - you've been active (to the forums benefit). In regard to your post regarding folder/program schedules, if you have some examples that you could provide, I'd be happy to spend some time running tests. My curiosity has been "peaked". IM Hello Mike: Thanks for the kind words! I see that since I've been away, Darrell has joined UDI, and he is picking up Michel's tradition of staying close to the user base. Welcome aboard, Darrell ! Hopefully, this will make things a bit easier for Michel. You know, I wish that I had really documented the problems with my folders. But I found that I was just more frustrated that my "AWAY" scene was not functioning properly. I tried several permutations and then just gave up on the concept of having the programs in a conditional folder. I still have them in a folder, but there are no conditions associated with it. Since you're interested, the purpose of the programs is to turn lights on and off while we're away, to give the impression that we are "moving" around the house from room to room. What is supposed to trigger the programs are two conditions: Hall KPL G button, and the time of day. The idea was that when we leave the house, say, in the afternoon, I could push the button which would allow the programs to run when the proper time was reached. If we were already in one of the evening time periods when the button was pushed, the THEN statements should start running immediately. So here is what I had: AWAY SCENE ON SUB 1 If Status 'Hall KPL G - Away Scene' is On Then Repeat 3 times Send X10 'G7/Off (11)' Wait 2 seconds Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This program would turn off the X10 light in my office, which is a visual letting me know that that at least the ISY is acknowleding the button press. AWAY SCENE SUB 2 If Status 'Hall KPL G - Away Scene' is On And From 7:00:00PM To 10:00:00PM (same day) Then Repeat 1 times Wait 10 minutes (Random) Set Scene 'Kitchen Main Group' On Wait 15 minutes Set Scene 'Living Room Ceiling Group' On Wait 10 minutes Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' On Wait 7 minutes Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' Off Wait 2 minutes Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' On Wait 3 minutes Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' Off Wait 5 minutes Set Scene 'Basement Game Group' On Wait 5 minutes Set Scene 'Living Room Ceiling Group' Off Wait 3 minutes Repeat 3 times Send X10 'G7/On (3)' Wait 2 seconds Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This program started the first sequence of events. AWAY SCENE SUB 3 If Status 'Hall KPL G - Away Scene' is On And From 11:00:00PM To 1:00:00AM (next day) Then Wait 10 seconds (Random) Wait 10 minutes (Random) Set Scene 'Basement Game Group' Off Wait 1 minute Set Scene 'Living Room Ceiling Group' Off Wait 5 seconds Set Scene 'Kitchen Main Group' Off Wait 2 minutes Set 'Master Bed Dimmer' On Wait 1 hour and 2 minutes Repeat 3 times Send X10 'G7/Off (11)' Wait 2 seconds Repeat 1 times Wait 10 minutes Set 'Master Bed Dimmer' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This program initiated the second sequence of events, and then eventually turned all the involved devices back off AWAY SCENE OFF If Control 'Hall KPL G - Away Scene' is switched Off Then Repeat 3 times Send X10 'G7/Off (11)' Wait 2 seconds Repeat 1 times Stop program 'Away Scene ON Sub 2' Stop program 'Away Scene ON Sub 3' Set Scene 'Kitchen Main Group' Off Set Scene 'Living Room Ceiling Group' Off Set Scene 'Master Bed Light Group' Off Set Scene 'Basement Game Group' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This last program forced a stop of all the AWAY programs, and turned all involved devices back off when KPL G would be toggled off. When I had the programs in folders, I think that I may have had the folder conditional set to respond the the KPL G button control or status ON. I really don't remember now. But I know that sometimes the programs would start running when they shouldn't have, even if the KPL G button was never pressed. At other times, the programs wouldn't run when the button had been pressed. At any rate, this current setup seems to work. If you can suggest anything better, I'll listen! Thanks and Best wishes,
Algorithm Posted March 14, 2008 Posted March 14, 2008 Thanks for the kind words! I see that since I've been away, Darrell has joined UDI, and he is picking up Michel's tradition of staying close to the user base. Welcome aboard, Darrell ! Hopefully, this will make things a bit easier for Michel. Frank, Thank you for your kind words, both here and in some other threads as well!
mcrean Posted March 15, 2008 Author Posted March 15, 2008 Tonight the program is working. I am out of town for a week so this is the last test until I get back. Thanks again!
IndyMike Posted March 20, 2008 Posted March 20, 2008 Michael, I've had three different versions of your program running for ~ 5 days now. All have performed properly. I've tried numerous things and haven't been able to "trip them up". Let us know how things are going when you return, IM Tonight the program is working. I am out of town for a week so this is the last test until I get back. Thanks again!
mcrean Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 Hello, I am back. I tried again and it failed this evening. The 'Deck Spots Status' program now shows having run and last completed at 10:02 (because of the 1 minute delay) and shows false . The 'Deck spots turns off at night' shows blank on the last run time and complete time (had to reset ISY last night). Should I re-write the programs to not use a folder, but use a time frame? Indy Mike, Are you making changes to your unit that is testing my program? It seems any change to any programming triggers it to run properly, for the day. Maybe set this unit aside and let it run on its own? I assume you are running other tests on it. I dunno.
mcrean Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 Interesting. I turned on the Deck Spots via the KeypadLinc (after 10:00 PM) and now 'Deck Spots Turns On Night' program is showing 'Running Then', although there is no delay in the Then statement. It does show a last completed time at the same time it was started. Maybe it is a clue?
IndyMike Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Michael, I haven't made a change to the ISY in over a week (I've been away as well). Each time I've checked the programs indicate that they have been executing properly. I'm actually activating a X10 device with the equivalent "deck spots turns off night" program. My X10 CM15a interface confirms that the X10 commands are being sent at the proper times. Folder Conditions Folder Conditions for 'Test Program mcrean' Add conditions to limit when programs in this folder are allowed to run. If From 2:30:00PM For 15 minutes Then Allow the programs in this folder to run. Trigger Program 1 If Status 'Entry Patio' is Off And Time is 2:31:00PM Then Run Program 'mcrean2' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Trigger Program 2 If Status 'Entry Patio' is Off And From 2:36:00PM For 1 minute Then Run Program 'mcrean4' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Trigger Program 3 If Status 'Entry Patio' is Off And Time is 2:33:00PM Then Run Program 'mcrean6' Run Program 'mcrean5' (Else Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Called program (3 programs - same code) If Control 'Master Fan' is switched Off Then Send X10 'E1/On (3)' Wait 10 seconds Send X10 'E1/Off (11)' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') As I indicated, I've tried a number of things to trip these programs up. 1) Direct program call from another folder - outside time window. 2) Program stop from another folder - outside time window. 3) Direct program call from another folder - within time window. 4) Program stop from another folder - within time window. None of these attempts had any effect on the execution. I'd like to say that moving your time conditionals into the actual programs would work for you. Problem is, I don't understand why it's not working currently. IM Hello,I am back. I tried again and it failed this evening. The 'Deck Spots Status' program now shows having run and last completed at 10:02 (because of the 1 minute delay) and shows false . The 'Deck spots turns off at night' shows blank on the last run time and complete time (had to reset ISY last night). Should I re-write the programs to not use a folder, but use a time frame? Indy Mike, Are you making changes to your unit that is testing my program? It seems any change to any programming triggers it to run properly, for the day. Maybe set this unit aside and let it run on its own? I assume you are running other tests on it. I dunno.
IndyMike Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Interesting. I turned on the Deck Spots via the KeypadLinc (after 10:00 PM) and now 'Deck Spots Turns On Night' program is showing 'Running Then', although there is no delay in the Then statement. It does show a last completed time at the same time it was started. Maybe it is a clue? That's a bit wild. Could you please confirm that you're still running the following code? \ If Time is 10:01:00PM And Status 'Deck Spots' is not On Then Run Program 'Deck Spots Turns Off Night' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Deck Spots Turns Off Night: If Control 'KeypadLinc A (Deck Spots)' is switched Off Then Wait 1 hour Set 'Malibu Lights' On Wait 4 minutes Set 'Malibu Lights' Off Wait 1 minute Set Scene 'Deck Spots Button' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Deck Spots Turns On Night: If Control 'KeypadLinc A (Deck Spots)' is switched On Then Stop program 'Deck Spots Turns Off Night' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') If your code is the same as above, my best guess would be that your PLM locked up or your program is looping (I don't understand why). I just tried a similar "program stop command" and had no problems with beta 2.6.3. I'm at a loss at the moment. It's beginning to look like you're in need of the services of an expert (Mr. Jahn). IM
yardman 49 Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 Frank, I've been a bit remiss in not posting this earlier - nice to have you back guy! Your AWOL period must have invigorated you - you've been active (to the forums benefit). In regard to your post regarding folder/program schedules, if you have some examples that you could provide, I'd be happy to spend some time running tests. My curiosity has been "peaked". IM Hello Mike: Earlier in this thread I did post examples of what I had been using for my "foldered" programs that were triggered by a button press. I don't know if you've had a chance to look at them. But the present discussion reminds me a little of the problems that I had been seeing. Just very weird, inconsistent behavior. That is why I stopped using folders for this purpose. Like mcrean, it seemed as though I was actually getting my buttons presses being properly registered by the ISY. In fact, for all my "cleanup" programs, the button presses always trigger the "Then" statements properly. But with the example that I posted earlier in this thread, this was not true. There were two major failures: the "Then" statements should have started running and stayed running, but would instead start and stop at the same time. And the second error was that the program would sometimes start on its own, with no button press being recorded. This latter error was probably due to some logic error on my part, but I couldn't find it. I wish that I had done a better job of documenting the code so that I could reconstruct the series of events. But all that I remember is what I posted here earlier. Ever since I stopped using the folders for this purpose, the programs that I wrote to handle my "Away" scene are working properly. Best wishes,
IndyMike Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 Frank, Thank you for the additional background. I don't doubt for a second that both you and Michael have (are) experienced problems with folder conditions. To date, I haven't been able to throw the right set of inputs at the routines to initiate a problem. I have tried some cursory tests using the routines that you provided. To date I've come up with a few methods to stop them from executing. I haven't come up with a way to cause them to execute with the folder condition false. Still looking... IM
yardman 49 Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 Hello Mike: Thanks for the update! We really appreciate you and everyone who helps with testing our programs. Best wishes,
mcrean Posted March 27, 2008 Author Posted March 27, 2008 Well, yesterday I moved the programs out of the conditional folder and made the programs themselves time conditional. Last night and tonight they have functioned properly. I wonder if my unit has some weird problem? The end result is that the status program never went true at 10:01 PM while in the conditional folder. The folder condition was from 10:00 PM to Sunrise (next Day) That is the only thing I can say is different between my programs and IndyMike's test programs. Let me know if you stumble across the same thing. Thank you for your help.
Recommended Posts