bh56 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I'm having sporadic issues where sometimes certain appliancelinc devices won't turn on. These are in a scene. I actually have a backup program run about 5 minutes after, trying to turn the scene on again. This only happens sporadically. I also have a number of Dual Band Switchlincs throughout my house. My ISY is in very close proximity to the appliancelincs as well. Any suggestions to get this more consistent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Some basic stuff. I prefer Access Points for positive phase coupling. Depending on wired Dual band devices mounted inside a box with AC wiring in close proximity is not always the best RF environment. Also they cannot be moved around to insure there is actual coupling of the 120v legs (phases). It may be helpful to determine if all the unreliable devices are on the same 120v leg (phase) which would suggest a coupling (or lack of it) problem. Also are they on the same circuit which could indicate noise or signal attenuation (signal sucker) on that circuit. Insure that other electronics on the same circuit as the PLM are on a FilterLinc. Do not use power strips with noise suppression that are not on a FilterLinc. Insure the PLM is plugged directly into an outlet, not into a power strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh56 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 Thanks for your suggestions. Do you recommend Access Points over the Phase Coupler? http://www.smarthome.com/2406H/SignaLin ... red/p.aspx Also, since Appliancelincs are not with RF, I'm thinking it may be more noise related or phase. I see you can test for phase issues by turning on a 220 appliance and if it goes away that may be a phase issue. Is the only way to tell how my house is wired to look at the Junction box? My PLM is direct to the wall, no powerstrip. Can you clarify about "Do not use power strips with noise suppression that are not on a FilterLinc." Thinking of picking up a few Filterlincs to see if that helps on a few electronic devices nearby where I am having issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I do recommend Access Points over the wired phase coupler. Some folks are very happy with the wired coupler and it works well in environments where there are no issues with signal levels at the point they reach the power panel and are passively transferred to the other phase at the same signal level. The advantage of Access Points is they are active coupler/repeaters. Even if the signal reaches an Access Point on one phase slightly degraded it is coupled to the other phase with the other Access Point at full signal strength. If a device response problem is temporarily resolved when a 240v appliance such as an electric dryer is turned On that often indicates a phase coupling problem. The 240v appliance provides passive coupling of the two 120v legs while the appliance is On. Many power strips contain noise suppression devices built into the power strip. Some indicate the existence of these filters, some do not. The issue is an Insteon signal looks like noise and can be attenuated (signal sucker). Should a PLM be plugged into one of these (which yours is not) or one is used close to the PLM the PLM signal is reduced at the source. This can make it difficult for Insteon signals to go to and from the PLM. I keep a few FilterLincs around just in case. As a matter of practice I put all electronics at the PLM plug point (other than PLM itself) on a FilterLinc. Devices such as UPS, PC power supplies, other electronic equipment power supplies can introduce noise and/or attenuate Insteon signals (signal sucker) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberkc Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I see you can test for phase issues by turning on a 220 appliance and if it goes away that may be a phase issue. I would not rely on this, but it would be a clue. Have you not performed the test in the manual to ensure you have dual-band devices on both legs of your electrical system? Is the only way to tell how my house is wired to look at the Junction box? The "junction" box? Are you talking about the service panel? Are you still trying to figure out the "phase" issue? If so, the best way to check for communication across the legs of you electrical system is to perform the test in the manual for each dual-band device, including access points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh56 Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Oberkc, Thanks for the details. No I had not run the test. Is there a trick to it. I tap the set button 4 times, but does not go into detect mode. Have done many times. Also, yes, I was talking about Service Panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh56 Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Finally got the Phase Detect to work. I get a little bit of inconsistent results. Some do blink Green or Red, they slowly blink white or blink white(what does this mean) I think part of my problem, I've narrowed down to electronics. I have a TV, Stereo, Blue-ray and Cable digital box in one power strip/surge suppressor. If I unplug, things appear to be smoother. So should I put a Filterlinc on the Surge Supressor? It's a 4 outlet box, and I've moved around with different results. But all do seem to point to noise from the electronics or surge suppressor. Others have mentioned that UPS also cause problems. I have a number of them in my house. Should you have a Filterlinc on each one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 FilterLinc on anything electronic at the PLM plug point including any UPS. I have 4 UPS devices all on FilterLincs. Two are located where PC equipment and PLMs (different physical locations) are installed. Two of the UPS devices are small covering wireless phone, Davis weather station, and a few other things. Not sure the FilterLincs are required on these UPSs but I covered them anyway. The blinking Red indicates on the same phase. The blinking green means receiving RF and on the opposite phase. The User Guide for the blinking white device should explain what that means. The fact that it is blinking indicates it is receiving the RF test signal. Not sure if blinking white means same or opposite phase. It is good to keep a copy of the User Guides in a directory somewhere for reference. Avoids the need to download anytime a device question comes up. Also things may change across different hardware/firmware versions so having the User Guide that was available when the devices were purchased in helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh56 Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Thanks for your reply. Manual didn't say anything about the white blinking. Will need to check with Smarthome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?tit ... int_Models http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?tit ... 43P_Manual Steady Bright White. Communicating and on opposite phase. Blinking Bright White. Communicating and on same phase. Dim. Not communicating at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh56 Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 Thanks, was only looking at the pdf manual from Smarthome, not wiki. I'm using Switchlincs(Switch and Dimmers), dual-phase. Each type are same versions(from what I can tell). Interesting on the different colors within same type. Can't find similar wiki doc for the Switchlincs, assuming same codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I have practically given up on Smartlabs hardware changes getting to the manuals in a orderly fashion. Many times older hardware manuals just disappear and new ones are incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arw01 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 http://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?title=Using_the_Access_Point_Rev_2.0_With_Prior_Access_Point_Modelshttp://wiki.smarthome.com/index.php?tit ... 43P_Manual Steady Bright White. Communicating and on opposite phase. Blinking Bright White. Communicating and on same phase. Dim. Not communicating at all. Yep, had to look this up the other day when moving access points around to deal with some communications issues that I am still chasing. The newer v2 are dim green when happy and only blink on traffic, the below V2 are bright white led when they are happy and they blink on traffic. I think it's only RF traffic, but not in a spot where I can see it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Access Points blinking green or blinking red are in response to the 4 tap Set button test RF message the first Access Point (or other Dual Band device) is generating to determine if in RF range and which phase the other Access Point(s) is On. Not to be confused with the normal status LED response when not reacting to the RF test message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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