spaterson76 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Hi, I installed Insteon in my whole house in Feb 2012. I replaced all the switches (some dual band, some relay, some dimmer). I have 2 Insteon thermostats, about 8 motion detectors, 6 door sensors, a couple remotes, & an ISY-99i. A couple weeks ago, I upgraded my home router. Router placement was an issue, so I used a pair of netgear AV500 powerline adapters to get to the center of the house where i put the router. I was worried about insteon traffic & web traffic causing issues, but Fry's said they'd take back the netgear adapters if it didn't work. Anyway, after getting everything setup, I lost connection to the PLM. Thought it was dead, but a factory reset brought it to life. This was no fun as it took a while to restore all the devices. At this point, almost everything is back in action, and I'm happy that the ISY & insteon can play nice with the web traffic over the powerline with the netgear adapters. Most of my programs work as expected. For example, I have a couple motion detectors that are not linked to lights, but rather trigger programs on the ISY. I did this so I could configure them (i.e. disable the motion detectors when i want, or have them active only at certain times of the night, etc). Those motion programs still work properly. Also, I can still connect to my ISY from the office as I have the port forwarding set up. Everything is working except the ISY no longer detects when devices change state. This is not a big deal, except a few of my programs are triggered by switch activity. for example, by each exterior door, one light switch is set to trigger a program on a double-click (fast-off). All this program does is turn off all the interior lights. There are a few others. These no longer work. In the event viewer, I simply don't see the switch activity unless I use the ISY web interface to turn the switches on or off. How can I get my ISY to see the Insteon switch activity again? Steve ## i will try disconnecting the netgear adapters tonight to confirm whether this has an impact, but the ISY gets the motion detector info. I don't see why it can't get the light switch info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaterson76 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 I should add that I have also upgraded to v.3.2.6 of the ISY firmware & UI. That is another variable. And, again, control of everything works fine from the ISY admin console or ISY web page. The switching that is not seen by the ISY when changed at the switch is controlled just fine by the ISY console or webpage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 For the ISY/PLM to see state changes a Controller link record (starts with an E2) pointing to the PLM must existing in each device and the PLM must have a Responder link record (starts with an A2) pointing to each individual device, and Insteon mesh network must be good between the device and the PLM location. Having changed the PLM the Insteon address changed which means every link record in every device that contained the old PLM address had to be updated with the new PLM address. Also the new PLM must have had all the Responder link records generated in the PLM. I would pick one device, do a Show Device Links Table and verify there is a Controller (E2) link pointing to the PLM (with the new PLM address) and do a Show PLM Links Table and verify the Responder (A2) link pointing to the device is in the PLM. These two link records MUST exist for Insteon to pass the device state change to the PLM. If these link records are present yet that device does not report state changes then there is an issue with the Insteon Mesh Network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaterson76 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 The PLM has been spitting out links for a very long time. There are a tremendous number of repeat lines. I'm currently seeing line 083C and counting. let's round down to 0800, so we've already seen: 16*16*8 links = 2048 links. It's dumping about 3 or 4 per second. We're at 10 min+. I've seen the same motion detector address a bunch of times. Rather pitiful debug 'feature'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 All Insteon traffic has to be eliminated during a Show PLM Links Table. Otherwise link records can be skipped or read multiple times which is what sounds like is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaterson76 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Thanks for the insight LeeG, The devices do not have an E2 link back to the PLM. they just have an A2 link. The device i'm looking at now has 4 A2 links & 1 00 link. Do you know the easy way or any good way to restore those links? Maybe my PLM might be bad? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If the device is missing the Controller (E2) link record do a Restore Device on that particular device. The device will not send state change messages without the Controller link record. What type of device is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaterson76 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 I have something like 50 wall switches. The one I'm looking at now is a 2476D (switchlinc dimmer w/beeper v.40). I restored the PLM & all the devices & still have an issue and a bad PLM link table as well. That took about 2 hours. Seems to take a couple min per device. Maybe I need to delete all the scenes first. Also, it chokes every time it encounters a motion detector that isn't in linking mode so I had to babysit it during the update. I really hope this is just user error & that there is a better way to restore the PLM. Reading other posts, I have seen people clear everything & start again, entering all their Insteon devices. Please someone tell me there's a better way. The ISY should be able to handle this unless it is badly flawed. I'm a little annoyed with the updates wanting all the motion detectors & remotes & door sensors in link mode. The problem I've seen with that is as you try to put more than 1 in linking mode, they start trying to link with each other. I want all my links defined in the ISY. Turning off the battery powered devices when doing changes might be what I need. Shouldn't the ISY simply handle a refresh of everything? i understand i may need to do the battery powered devices one at a time. Is there no better way than saving the configuration, scrapping it all & reloading it. Will that even work? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberkc Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The problem I've seen with that is as you try to put more than 1 in linking mode, they start trying to link with each other. I don't believe that a motion sensor can link with another motion sensor, or a remote with a motion sensor, or a motion sensor with a remote. I suspect there is something else going on here. Hopefully, others can confirm. My experience is that if you put a motion sensor or remote into linking mode and restore that device from the ISY, it will not affect other remotes or motion sensors. It may be best to do one at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I need a better description of the physical result after restoring all the device and PLM link databases. Any RF only device is normally asleep. When the Restore Modem (PLM) is complete any updates that are queued for RF devices should be cleared one device at a time. Put one device in linking mode by pressing its Set button. Then right click the node and select Write Updates to Device. When one device is complete move to the next. Trying to put multiple RF only devices into linking mode at once usually just cancels each other out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaterson76 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 I have done the same thing when restoring the RF devices after the PLM & RF devices are restored. One at a time. Turning on a 2nd frequently turns off the 1st. Here's the detail on the switchlinc dimmer. this is after restoring the PLM & the devices. Links table for switchlinc dimmer (who's addr is 1A.5F.22) is shown in the attached screen shot. This is consistent. Takes maybe 15 seconds & has consistently dumped out the same thing. When I do, Tools->Diagnostics->Show PLM Links Table, I get an inconsistent result when i hit start. # of unique lines will differ, so I'm worried I'm not getting the whole table. I hit start & after a while the start button is no longer gray. i saw 8 lines. Hit start again. start stays gray longer & i saw 20 lines. Tried again & got about 100 lines. Tried a 4th time & got about 40 lines. So, i'm worried I don't know a way to get the whole table out accurately. It hasn't gotten to 1A.5F.22 yet. It's not simply a difference in amount of repeats. The number of unique lines is different each time. It seems to terminate the link reporting too soon now. If I right click on the Up-MidBdRm-Lights (1A.5F.22) & do restore device, it seems to run to completion & I get the same 5 links. Still no E2 link back to PLM. If I right click on Up-MidBdRm-Lights & do diagnostics->show ISY links table, i get the 4 A2 lines, but not the 00 line. Maybe I should disable the powerline web traffic & try again. I'll probably have to do that tonight after work. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 spaterson76 Thanks for the detail on the SwitchLinc link database. The link database is wrong. Do a Show ISY Links Table for the same SwitchLinc. This will list the link records the ISY thinks should be in the SwitchLinc. If there are no E2 link records in that display something has happened to the ISY configuration data. This can happen if when the old PLM was replaced a Delete Modem (PLM) was issued during the process. The Delete Modem function should never be issued under most circumstances. It removes all references to the PLM, ALL references, including the E2 link records that point back to the PLM. When the new PLM is installed these link records are not reestablished because it is not anticipated they were deleted to begin with. If this is the situation an ISY backup taken before the Delete Modem (PLM) was issued should be restored. Then all the devices rebuilt with Restore Device and the PLM rebuilt with Restore Modem (PLM). If an ISY backup was not taken before the old PLM was Deleted the system has to be rebuilt. Before going there do be sure to run a Show ISY Links Table for a few devices (it runs very quickly) to be sure the E2 link records are not there. There can be E2 link records pointing to other devices but I suspect the E2 link records pointing to the PLM have been removed because of a Delete Modem (PLM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaterson76 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 LeeG, That is the case. I've checked several switches & they lack E2 links. I do have a backup on my work laptop (used for everything before i got a home laptop this month). I'll give it a shot. Thanks, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaterson76 Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 Hi, So, in order to save some work & time, I've untarred the old backup, made a copy, edited CONF/NETWORK.CFG since my new router setup requires a different IP address for the ISY. If I used the old configuration, I have fixed, but inaccessible ip address. So, i simply changed 1 line that defines the IP address. I'm considering also replacing the D2D/ dir with the latest programs (i exported a backup of my bad setup so i had the programs, etc) so I don't have to redo all that, but I'll hold off on this for my first attempt. So, from a terminal, if i zip "zip -r mybackup.zip CONF" or even "tar -czvf mybackup.zip CONF" or "tar -czvf mybackup.tar.gz CONF", the admin console doesn't seem to read it in. Is there a special way to zip or tar it up so that the ISY is happy with it? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 spaterson76 Way out of my league. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaterson76 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Just a follow up. I did go ahead & add some xattr & successfully did the restore of a previous backup (after editing the CONF bundle slightly). Very shortly after that, I got a return call from Support (Michel, I think). As I was about to hack the restore bundle further by editing the D2D/ directory & replacing it with the latest program files, Michel made the point that you can backup & restore just the programs from the console. In the future, I will do that. Things seem to be working again. Thanks for the help LeeG & Michel, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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