dimensionzero Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I fear I already know the answer to this question, but thought I might ask it to see if there are any ideas on how I can implement what I want. First of all, I kind of jumped in head first with this Insteon stuff which in retrospect, was a bit of a bad idea, but I'm here now so I'm hoping to make do with what I have... Everything finally arrived today and I'm all set to go but, the first thing I go to install, an on/off switch for the garage lights, looks like it's not going to work. There are only 3 wires that come into the box, black, white and ground. See photo here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/asvfz18twvey8 ... .28.10.jpg My best guess as to how this is wired is, it comes from the electrical panel, to the lights in the ceiling and then finally to the switch at the end of the series. What are my options here? I saw in a different thread, that while a RF dimmer switch would be 2 wire, setting it to 100% could be iffy with no-dimming bulbs? So far I have a garagelinc installed but is seemingly out of range of my PLM so that's another strike... I'm hoping the rest of my installation won't be as sad. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 There is an Insteon Micro On/Off switch that might fit in the fixture. The wiring to the existing manual paddle would be changed to provide unswitched 120v power to that box. Install whatever Insteon switch you want there and link it to the Micro On/Off switch. There is a larger InLineLinc Relay that would provide the same function. The 2-wire RF only SwitchLinc Dimmer should not control a non-dimmable load. The I/O Linc garage kit not working could be the result of no phase coupling or incorrectly installed phase coupling. Are there Access Points installed for phase coupling. How far is the garage from the PLM? Is the PLM plugged directly into an outlet? It should not be plugged into a power strip as they could have noise reduction that reduces Insteon signals. Also is there other electronic equipment plugged into the same circuit as the PLM? If so is that equipment isolated with a FilterLinc. Trying to cover some of the common issues in a new Insteon install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimensionzero Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 Hi LeeG! Just want to clarify this a bit so it's clear in my head. Does the Micro On/Off switch essentially convert a manual switch into a controllable relay? As for the garage kit, I'm not too worried about it yet. The PLM is directly connected to the wall with other items on the circuit, but I'm hoping that once I get the other Insteon switches and outlets installed, the added modules will create a strong enough network to allow me to do what I need. Otherwise, I will definitely look into getting access points for phase coupling. Thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I mentioned the Micro On/Off only because it is small and might fit more easily in the light fixture. The normal solution for a 2-wire box that requires a Relay is to install an InLineLinc Relay at the fixture for load control. Retask the two wires going to the box to provide unswitched 120v power for whatever Insteon switch you want in the box. That switch is linked to the InLineLinc Relay (or Micro On/Off because it is smaller). It is very rare for an Insteon installation not to require phase coupling. I suggest saving yourself some pain and install a pair of Access Points from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arw01 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 With the sense wire on the micro you could repurpose the switch loop to control that micro relay in the fixture. BUT, if the light was OFF and the switch was ON, you would have to flip the switch off and then back on. If you put a momentary switch in it's place, then that's self evident. Those little micro-modules are pretty interesting. I have a couple of the 2 wire switches around my house so went to the two wire insteon relay's. Someday I plan on crawling on my belly in the attic and running new wires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris932 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I never heard about a two wire insteon relay. Do you have a model # or part #? In my house long ago I tried to wire X10 relays and well they released the magic smoke within minutes. The electrians spent a while troubleshooting it and determined the white wire is not a neutral but another hot! The micro modules are just like the inlinelinc, but smaller so they will probably fit in most junction boxes (where the inlinelinc and X10 XPFM modules simply won't fit in most standard junction boxes). Then you can re-purpose the two wires to the switch as hot and neutral and install a kepadlinc.... or you could just keep the current switch and use the trigger wires on the micro (or inlinelinc if by some miracle you made it fit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlyguy Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 With the sense wire on the micro you could repurpose the switch loop to control that micro relay in the fixture. BUT, if the light was OFF and the switch was ON, you would have to flip the switch off and then back on. If you put a momentary switch in it's place, then that's self evident. I've installed my first Insteon Micro On/Off module - to get around the exact same limitation that started this thread - no neutral wire in the switch box - just the 14/2 wire running the switch. I wired the Micro On/Off module in the lamp box - and kept the original single pole decora switch in the switch box to switch the Sense #1 (Yellow) wire on the Micro On/Off module. I can verify that straight out of the box, the Micro On/Off module is in latching switch mode, which means that every time the standard decora switch is toggled on or off, it will change the state of the Micro On/Off load control. You never have to flip the switch off, then back on, to control the load. One touch, on or off, always changes the load output state. I realize this is an old post, no one is probably following, but I wanted to correct the sense functionality description if anyone comes up on this topic in a search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Hello Schlyguy, Thanks so very much for taking the time and reporting. I appreciate it very much. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerop Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 So, I know this is very old but I'm looking for a On/Off switch (or in-line module) for a switch that currently only has 2 wires (no neutral). Is there anything? I've found the ON/Off module but it says neutral is required. I can't seem to find any inlinelinc that doesn't require a neutral either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 So, I know this is very old but I'm looking for a On/Off switch (or in-line module) for a switch that currently only has 2 wires (no neutral). Is there anything? I've found the ON/Off module but it says neutral is required. I can't seem to find any inlinelinc that doesn't require a neutral either. Here's a link to an Insteon 2 wire dimmer switch. Note: these switches are designed only for incandescent loads. http://www.smarthome.com/switchlinc-2-wire-dimmer-insteon-2474dwh-remote-control-dimmer-rf-white.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerop Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Here's a link to an Insteon 2 wire dimmer switch. Note: these switches are designed only for incandescent loads. http://www.smarthome.com/switchlinc-2-wire-dimmer-insteon-2474dwh-remote-control-dimmer-rf-white.html Thanks, but I need an on/off not dimming as they will be used on compact florescent bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwester Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Sorry, can't be done -- you can't use the two-wire dimmer with CFLs, and it's not technically possible to make an on/off two-wire module. The first is because of the nature of a CFL. The second is because as soon as the relay closes, there's no longer any way for the two-wire device to obtain power or network messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 A Micro Module or In-LineLinc can be installed in the ceiling box. The Micro Module may fit in the fixture. The In-LineLinc requires a SwitchLinc or other controller. The Micro Module can use a standard switch or a SwitchLinc. If you opt for a SwitchLinc, the dimmer is silent, the On/Off switch clicks. It doesn't matter as it won't be wired to a load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerlands Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Thanks, but I need an on/off not dimming as they will be used on compact florescent bulbs. Just a note.. CFL's can produce noise that interferes with the insteon signal and seems to depend on the manufacturer. I was using CFL's at one time and was able to turn them on but after they warmed up I wasn't able to turn them off Jon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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