Water Leak Sensors-2852-222

[bh56]

I'm setting up my new Water Leak Sensors(2852-222). I have an ISY994i. I'm able to add the devices using the Set button. I then press the set button to get it out of set mode. If I do the test(press set button), the Wet/Dry status is triggered. But when I put sensor on a wet napkin, it does not trigger the sensor. Did I miss a configuration step? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Have a posting on Smarthome as well. Wondering if anyone has seen this before.

[LeeG]

How many nodes were defined when the Leak Sensor was added?

 

Do the nodes cycle between On and Off as the Set button on the Leak Sensor is pressed (tapped)?

[bh56]

Two get defined when added. Device-Name - Dry and Device-Name-Wet. When I press the set button the wet/dry toggle on/off. I'm wondering if it's the metal sensors on the bottom, because very briefly it appears to switch, but remains Wet=off. Occasionally it will go on when it's wet. The napkin is quite wet and I've also put a very thin puddle of water, but does not seem to sense it. I've tested with 2 sensors. I've taken it apart and it looks fine, although I'm not sure how the bottom sensors triggers a connection. But every time I press set button, it does toggle. Seems like a bottom moisture sensitivity thing. Have an email and posting to insteon/smarthome as well.

[LeeG]

Place the Leak Sensor on a dry surface and tap the Set button until the Leak Sensor - Dry node shows Off. Place the Leak Sensor on the wet napkin (I use a wet paper towel to test). The Dry node should turn On and the Wet node turn Off.

[bh56]

Wow, counter-intuitive. But that seems to at least be consistent To me that seems backwards. You would think you would look for the Wet to be "on". Boy, spent quite a bit of time trying to figure this out.

 

Thanks for your help. Insteon, needs better instructions on this or is it they way the ISY uses this information?

[LeeG]

I think it is the way the ISY chose to name the nodes for the two Groups/Scenes the Leak Sensor uses.

 

When the Leak Sensor detects moisture it sends a Group 1 On which is the Dry node Group number. When the Set button is tapped a Group 2 On is sent which is the Wet node Group number.

 

As the Leak Sensor Set button is tapped the Leak Sensor alternates between sending a Group 1 On and a Group 2 On which the ISY interprets as Group 1 On means Wet condition (Dry node On) and Group 2 On which the ISY interprets as Dry condition (Dry node Off). The Wet node cycles Off when the Dry node is On and the Wet node cycles On when the Dry node is Off.

 

It would be great if SmartLabs allowed access to the devices specs but they don't. We are left with programming in response to how the device reacts without understanding what the device actually thinks about all of this.

[firewheel]

I have a few of these sensors and they behave in this same manner - pushing the set button toggles between Wet/Dry = On/Off and Off/On.

 

If I disable and re-enable the sensor on the main menu, the Current States are Dry = Off, Wet= Off.

When I wet the contacts the Current state of Dry = On, and Wet=Off.

 

Drying the contacts causes no further state changes.

 

Couple of questions:

 

1. Is all of this normal (from what I read here, I think it is)?

2. How should I manage one of these sensors in a program? It is easy enough to trigger an event on Dry = On (the sensor is wet), but how do I detect when the sensor becomes dry again given the behavior I observe above?

[LeeG]

1. Is all of this normal (from what I read here, I think it is)?

 

I think it is normal. Without having access to the SmartLabs specs the only thing we have to go by is how it reacts. They all are reacting the same way.

 

2. How should I manage one of these sensors in a program? It is easy enough to trigger an event on Dry = On (the sensor is wet), but how do I detect when the sensor becomes dry again given the behavior I observe above?

 

I have not seen it go back to Dry=Off on its own. A tap of the Set button is what I have been using to bring it back to a Dry state. I think SmartLabs did this on purpose to insure an intermittent leak would not go unnoticed. They design for the non-HA world so if the device automatically reset when the water evaporates an intermittent leak or overflow condition could be missed.

[firewheel]

Thanks.

That helps.

One other question.

Is there documentation somewhere describing the different LED flashing patterns and what they mean?

[LeeG]

Not that I have seen. The Quick Start guide covers the basic linking mode indication.

 

The RF devices generally react this way.

 

Press the Set button for 3-5 seconds puts it into linking mode with the LED blinking continuously.

Press the Set button again puts the device into unlinking mode with the LED double blinking continuously.

Press the Set button again takes it out of unlinking mode with the LED no longer blinking.

[firewheel]

It works the way you describe for set button pushes.

It also flashes very rapidly sometimes without a button push. Is this to indicate it is transmitting?

 

Thanks again for the quick answers!

[LeeG]

The Motion Sensor and TriggerLinc (both RF devices) will blink quickly when one of the devices linked to them does not respond. Usually because it is out of RF range so the outbound command or inbound ACK is not received. Have not seen my Leak Sensor do that but it would be consistent with other RF only devices.

[az1324]

Is there supposed to be a low battery node for these?

 

Also, mine does send the dry notification automatically, no button push required. Wet node is on when the sensor is wet, dry node is on when the sensor is dry.

[LeeG]

"Is there supposed to be a low battery node for these?"

 

Not according to the spec's on the sales page.

[LeeG]

az1324

 

Thanks for the post. Your results were different than mine so I ran some tests using actual water for a Wet condition rather than a damp towel. With actual water I get your results.

 

In water - Dry is Off, Wet is On

Out of water - Dry is On, Wet is Off

 

The change in node state (Dry to Wet, Wet to Dry) happens without tapping the Set button.

[Brian H]

Though things do change with SmartLabs.

The Developers Notes for the Leak Detector. Show Dry, Wet and Heart Beat messages. No Low Battery messages.

[bh56]

What about the "heartbeat" mention on insteon' site. Does the ISY support this feature? Is this the same as Responding? So if it's not responding there is either a battery or connectivity problem?

 

"To add a level of security, the sensor also features a "heartbeat" signal which is sent daily. This can be used by central controllers and/or cloud services to notify you that the sensor is still functioning or in the absence of the signal that there is a problem."

 

http://www.insteon.net/2852-222-leak-sensor.html

[LeeG]

The heartbeat is not currently supported by the ISY. See the link below. Michel indicates heartbeat support is in plan but difficult to test because they have not seen a heartbeat.

 

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=10572&hilit=heartbeat

[bh56]

Thanks for the information. Will see if I can monitor mine and see if I can tell what the heart beat is. Do you know if there is a way in ISY to monitor for a specific device or do you need to dump the log and search this out?

[LeeG]

No means for tracing a single device. I'm looking for the heartbeat as well. Problem is I'm not sure the Insteon message will be traced since it is not from a supported Group number.

[bh56]

Just a follow-up to this posting.

I think I've got it figured up and working.

 

To assist others, here is what I have determined.

1) When you add the 2852-222 to the ISY, you get to Nodes. A Dry and a Wet node. It appears the ISY expects the "Dry" to equal Off if the contacts are "Dry". When you wet the sensors(put on wet papertowel), then the Dry sensor goes to "On". This remains until "reset" via the set button.

- Although to me these nodes seem flip flopped, it makes a little sense that the "On" stays on until changed via the set button. This would prevent the scenario if the sensor got tipped over while getting wet and then dried off.

2) I also used the Group Device to group the Dry and Wet Nodes together under the "Dry" node and then monitor that as the above describes.

 

Again, although does not make 100% clear to me as it get's added as Dry/Wet, I think I have got it to where my ISY program can monitor it correctly(at least as defined)

[LeeG]

bh56

 

I would repeat the test with a small amount of water in a plate rather than using a wet towel. My Leak Sensor works as you describe when using a damp paper towel but I think that is only because there is not enough water for the Leak Sensor to function correctly.

 

Once I started using water the Dry node is On when the Leak Sensor is dry and the Wet node is On when the Leak Sensor is sitting in actual water.

 

I used only enough water to submerge the two metal sensors. Not enough for water to enter the device.

[RichTJ99]

The behavior I have seen from the leak sensor is:

 

if I have the unit on a plate, and poor water, the dry goes to off, the wet goes to on. When it drys up, the unit goes back to dry without needing to reset it. I tested it by using a paper towel to absorb the water in the plate, then the sensor went to Dry-on, wet-off

 

Is that the same as everyone else?

 

One other thing, if I want to make it so that if the sensor goes off, that it will email every 2 minutes, then stop when it is dry, why doesnt this work?

 

If
       Status  'Main: Basement Water - Wet' is On

Then
       Send Notification to 'Default' content 'Water Sensor wet'
       Wait  2 minutes 
       Repeat Every  2 minutes and 30 seconds

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[LeeG]

RichTJ99

 

The Repeat goes before the statements to be repeated rather than after. The Repeat is a no-op since there is nothing following it.

[RichTJ99]

so swap the wait & repeat? Then I should get notifications every 2.5 minutes?