simplextech

Day 1: Starting with an ISY for Insteon environments is the best decision and most important. All forthcoming decisions can be changed Day 2 - ???? Not true. You will use linking a lot with Insteon and the ISY. The difference is you will create and manage the links through the ISY and not create the links in a device to device direct manner. Insteon is designed in a way that no controller is necessary and you can create links from device to device pretty easy. This can achieve a lot of functionality but is limited in having to remember what is linked to what and for what function. The ISY is a central manager for links to devices and between the devices. The ISY connects to the PLM which is then how the ISY communicates with all of the devices. When you add the PLM a link is created between the ISY and PLM. When you add a device through the ISY the correct device links are added to the PLM and the ISY keeps track of these. See there's still inks and lots of them. You can create links between devices with the ISY and these are called 'Scenes'. A 'scene' is what called a 'group' in the Insteon documentation. It allows you to link devices together to do something. Scenes are very powerful and you can do almost all of your system automation through scenes. Programs enter the scene.. (pun intended) ... when you want to do something that will combine elements of multiple scenes or of devices or nodes that don't support scenes. Or if you want to run a program from some external data such as the weather or a temperature probe or something. Scenes and programs together are very powerful and provides enormous capabilities.

ahhh... my bad.. for now just select/copy and open a new tab and paste. I'll have to fix the actual URL's in the links as they aren't correct.

Yes. You can use the PC Controller to update the FW on devices with the Aeotec stick. It works fine. You have to exclude the devices from the ISY, include in the PC Controller, update and then again exclude and include back into the ISY... real PITA. Ok... ZEN20 added to the system... now we wait. For adding the PC Controller into the ISY for doing secondary updates. Setup PC Controller with your USB stick and make sure that's all working Open ISY Admin Console Open PC Controller if not already open Open Network Management page ISY Z-Wave -> Add a Z-Wave Device PC Controller After Clicked Add device in the ISY click the "Classic Learn Mode" button in PC Controller The PC Controller will be added to the ISY as a device/node PC Controller will sync/copy devices from ISY You can now use the PC Controller to update FW on z-wave devices that have been sync'd. You can re-sync by doing the same steps if you add more devices to the ISY. To remove the PC Controller from the ISY you will do the same steps EXCEPT for "Add a Z-Wave Device" in the ISY you want to "Remove" but then it's the same "Classic Learn Mode" button in PC Controller.

This is one of those tricky territory items. I can provide the basic information, however if things don't go right (sometimes they don't) or something is missed or I misremember and don't provide exact you could break your z-wave mesh and have to wipe the controller and start from scratch... so... you've been warned. With the ISY Admin Console open and the PC Controller software open. On the ISY you select the Include option to add a new device. From PC Controller you do the same. I have not done this in a while. You can play around with it or if you wait then I can go through the steps again later (probably when I'm adding the ZEN20) and I can document it.

If I have time later I'll add a ZEN20 to my system and see what happens. I'll let it sit a couple days and see if any ghosts appear... it is that time of year

I too have experienced the weird random nodes that sometimes get created. I don't have an answer for this nor explanation. If you're on the latest 5.3 firmware and you are having this issue I would submit a support ticket.

I wasn't happy with the 'name' of the URL so I renamed. Sorry for updating but I did it. https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc/Z-Wave-Devices/issues Original post was updated with the new link but there it is again just in case.

A list of z-wave devices I try to update as I get new devices to try out: https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc/Z-Wave-Devices/issues

The dome and zen15 I know report energy readings. I would have to do a test on the zen06 (I think I have one somewhere). I like the zen15 plugs because they can handle 15a which makes them very versatile.

Lot of work because of an app. There are several apps for the ISY so without you saying which one it's hard to help with anything. Given the open nature of the ISY and several apps existing now and likely more in the future it's more of a choose your own adventure thing. The Insteon Hub only has one app... and too bad if you don't like it and good luck with support. As for migrating devices to the Insteon hub... never done it. So I don't know I've migrated to/from other systems and it's generally pretty easy and sometimes doesn't even require physical touch of the devices if the new controller supports link management and you can wipe the links and install new one's. Otherwise you will have to physically reset each device which is a PITA. As for the ISY. If it fails and you have a backup then it's very easy to just swap in a new ISY. It's not so easy with the Insteon Hub as it's mostly cloud based and I've read where other's had to send the unit to them and wait for a replacement but I dunno.

wireless tags is available in the store. Polisy is made to be an appliance without direct end-user logins. However If you have one of the earlier geek batch versions (developers received) then you would also have login capabilities to do whatever. User installed/modified anything is not supported. Just have to put out that disclaimer. Otherwise if you sign up for the developer program through UDI I think then you get login access? I'm not sure @Michel Kohanim would provide much better direction in that regard.

From the Polisy web interface there is a "NodeServers" option in the top menu. Open that and select "NodeServer Store". You'll be presented with a list of NodeServers you can install.

Yeah I was not happy at all with the Insteon Open/Close sensors.

For a regular T-Stat there's several options in Z-Wave and a newish company MCOHome has some newer V2 devices recently released. If I had regular HVAC my preference would be a Venstar because they have a direct and local API for integration. Yes they are wifi BUT they do NOT depend on a vendor's cloud for functioning. For line-voltage aka baseboards I have StelPro Z-Wave and NuHeat Signature both work well.

YMMV however you can add the PC Controller as a secondary to the ISY. Then from PC Controller you will be able to see/control the devices and you can apply the firmware. Now the thing about firmware and z-wave devices..... unless it fixes a problem you're having it's generally better/safer to pass on the firmware update. If it's not broken don't fix it

@tim2u you can look at various Wifi compatible locks. There's a couple out there with potential. I'm currently waiting for Alfred to release their API (in the works) to develop a IP based nodeserver for that lock. In the meantime there's Lockitron oops nevermind. Just searched adn they are now shutdown. Pity had promise.

I agree it would be reasonable. The issue is the enormous variety of fly by night Wifi devices that have flooded the market. Which vendor to choose, how long will they be around. Another issue that comes up from Wifi devices is most consumer Wifi being a router and built in access point have a pretty small device limit before the AP starts dropping connections. The support noise that arises from users complaining just adds to the support cost of having to answer all of those complaints. Wifi is a great option for small installations or for specific use cases but it's difficult in larger scenarios.

In most I agree so we're starting on a good footing right? Wifi is just another medium of communicating with IP devices, but it's been used synonymous as a device interface so I'll continue using it. Yes UDI could, maybe should support one or more not all wifi device vendors. I do not agree with your pick of Wyze because they have been outright hostile about access to their API for development and interfacing and they are purely cloud based which I do not promote if given options. For the same reason I would not consider Tuya based devices even though they are dirt cheap and plentiful they are very closed with their API marketed and branded six ways from Sunday making it error difficult to determine what device and API you are really actually working with and because of this who know's for sure who's server you're really sending data to??? The Tasmota project is awesome and the Sonof devices are really cool and I like there's a NodeServer for them but... not everyone can hack a device and replace the firmware so that's not a broad enough option to most. Now on the flip side if TP-Link would open up through a partnership for an official API integration which could use their local API with option to use the cloud API I think that would be great. The existing NodeServer works very well but it is reverse engineered. The same goes for Etekcity aka Vesync devices which are cheap and work well but again it's a reverse engineered integration. Now I've thought about this a little since your previous post. It's been a while since I've done that so I thought about it and thought... what about "Shelly" devices? They have a lot of EU devices and are expanding their US device line up. They also have a very open API and support direct local integration via multiple integration friendly protocols including HTTP and MQTT. Almost the perfect device for integrating and they are wifi. Hmm..???? So I ordered a couple of the new US Shelly Plugs to play with. Would a Shelly integration scratch the Wifi itch even though such a "official" supported Wifi would be vendor limited? Is there another vendor with quality products and open integration which would be more preferred? Or is the preference still a wild west approach of NodeServers being developed at random based on individuals at the time interest and then some supported and others abandoned as there's no accountability as they are free. This is the primary reason open source projects such as Home Assistant and OpenHAB have hundreds or thousands of integrations some of them are excellent and some of them are FUBAR. This discussion comes up on many forums about drivers, plugins, components whatever that platform calls them and people always point to the number of components available for Home Assistant as evidence of why it's great. Reality. Developers write code for two reasons. Personal interest or Money. Personal interest and use changes over time but paid products tend to survive the long as long as a product sells or has a subscription base then money is gained and development continues. Will an official UDI Integration come from this? I dunno only @Michel Kohanim can weigh in on that. Will a Simplex Technology supported NodeServer come into play here? I haven't decided yet. An official integration takes time to develop and even more time to properly support such a thing. Time is money after all. So there are factors at play to weigh on this. Sorry to everyone for the rant. Just my 2cents worth.

Ok. Which vendor? There's one major problem with wifi devices that neither UDI or any other home automation platform can change. All of the wifi device vendors all are trying to create their own proprietary ecosystem and have closed API's. The closest thing to an open API comes from TP-Link with their Kasa devices. Which has a nodeserver already. So how do you propose Wifi be supported when there's no standard API to develop against?

I noticed in the Z-Wave tab there's a new option menu to enable/disable Network Wide Inclusion/Excusion. Make sure you change that to Yes to use NWI.

Different stick. The $19 stick is the Official reference stick from Silicon Labs and it is a Z-Wave 700 series USB stick. It is cheap (costing) but it is the reference standard by which others must validate against. Oh and yeah I have 2 of those and they work great.

Oh please NOOOOOO.... that stick aka Nortek stick is horrible and oh BTW you can't backup the z-wave portion so.. umm... SOL if the stick fails... it's also NOT a 700 series stick so you'd want to be upgrading in a year or so and without being able to backup and restore... ooops too bad! Would Zigbee end devices be nice with ISY... sure! But... that's a whole different ball game and a new can of worms and up until just recently with Zigbee 3.0 there really wasn't a REAL standard to cling to and call something supported so it was always a hit or miss and MUCH leaning on community developed drivers for most devices.

No it wont cause a "problem". @blueman2 pointed out that the "update neighbors" is still available which will work for some/most mixed environments. I'm currently treading in somewhat of an unknown here as well as I no longer have a mixed environment to test with. However my concern which could be unfounded is that the explorer frames are not being responded to by the non plus devices. This may not cause any problems at all if doing the update neighbors sends that information back to the controller to update the routing table with. So what I'm getting at is... No you shouldn't be alarmed about this. But aware that the "heal" being removed is not some "new to ISY thing" I've seen it with other systems as well. How this will affect things in real world scenarios I can't tell you as I don't have a mixed environment. So far I've not heard from any systems that don't have a "heal" the screams of bloody murder and calling for heads to roll from any users... about this issue.. I think many more pains are involved from those trying to implement S2 security (across the board with all systems) at the moment and I'm curious when that will emerge from the depths to the ISY and how "SmartStart" will even be handled....

Like @lilyoyo1 said... send it back... return it.

Technically by the Z-Wave Plus specification a "Heal" is.... "Not necessary".... Now the details of that is because Z-Wave Plus introduced "Explorer Frames" which when a route to a device no longer works the controller will send out lots of explorer frames that essentially ping the neighbors and ask who their neighbors are and the controller will "self-heal" and rebuild the routing table. This normally actually works ok and the mesh will re-route within seconds. The spec and docs say something like "up to X seconds" if I remember is something like 5-6 seconds for max time to send/respond to explorer frames. In general this does seem to work well in a ALL Z-Wave Plus mesh.... Now the kicker hits if you are running in a mixed Z-Wave environment..... some Plus devices and some NON Plus devices... Non Plus don't understand explorer frames so they don't respond and this can leave a hole in the mesh or inability to communicate with devices that can only route through that one non plus device. Now this is an extreme example of a broken mesh of a single device being the single route to another device... BUT... it can happen and the more non plus devices in your network the higher the chances of this happening..... In a mixed environment like lots of z-wave networks TODAY I think (my opinion) that network heal/optimize should be left in the controller as an option and in my preference I like it when controllers allow doing a per-node optimize so instead of "healing" the whole network one device at a time I can choose the node I want to optimize and force a neighbor update on. Like when I add another node and I just want to ensure the neighbors get the message they have a new neighbor.... knock knock here's some cookies