MarkJames

No - it sometimes get 4, sometimes 2, sometimes 1 - it's random. If you watch the video I posted you can see both the count in action and the event viewer. I see no insteon traffic in the event viewer that should disrupt the PLM link count - it just stops with the 02 6A 15. The highest I've seen it count is 41. I have 89 devices plus another 10-12 that are not controlled by ISY in my system. Of the 89 there are at least 20 KPL8's and another 20 KPL 6's. So at the very least I should have 160 for the 8's and 120 for the 6's. Plus a minimum of 1 for each of the other 50 devices so I should see a minimum of 350 or so links. I should probably just leave things alone as it works. The only thing is that since my PLM failure a couple of weeks ago I've been getting random ALL-ON events so I'm looking at all aspects to see what may be wrong. Most of the reading I've done points at the PLM so that's where I've been focussing. With my previous PLM's (and I've gone through at least 5-6 in the dozen or more years I've been involved) I've NEVER had an ALL-ON event so this is very disconcerting. Here is a list of my devices. I know it's not considered right to post the insteon addresses but I'm not bothered. mark

Thanks for the explanation. I've exhausted everything I can think of to do a PLM link count. I backed up my ISY and did a restore PLM followed by a Show PLM links but I still can't get past around 40. I know it's not 'necessary' to do a link count - it just *should* work and it's not. The PLM I'm using is a version 95 that's a few years old. Since installing it a couple of weeks ago I've had a few spontaneous ALL ON events that are quite maddening. Yesterday I'd posted that I thought it resolved but then last night it happened again - not ALL on but MANY on and my GDO open this morning much to my chagrine. I'm going to change control of that over to my Elk once I get the rest of this sorted. I purchased a new PLM to keep as a backup that is version 9E. I'm going to replace the v95 with the v9E and see if any of these problems resolve. Mark

By ISY Links I mean if I go into the Tools->Diagnostics->Show ISY Links I can see the records that ISY holds for each device. If I go to each device one by one and total up all the records that ISY holds I get 1764 links from the 89 different physical devices I have. This would represent the links for each of the single paddle devices, i/o devices, and KPL buttons plus links for all the scene memberships. It's this number that has me concerned. I've just finished deleting a very large scene that held every device whether it was a light or a KPL button so that I could turn off every device in the house from one button press. That should save me a bunch of PLM space. I'm going to go pull the battery on that leak sensor then restore my PLM and see if I can get a PLM link count. mark

Thanks. It occurred to me that I do have one RF device - a leak sensor. I'll go pull the battery from it to see if it's the problem. Should the number of PLM links be roughly the same as the number of ISY links? mark

Ok..... so I've been going through my ISY links device by device and I think it's pretty clear that I have more links than I should. I'm only a quarter of the way through and I'm well over 700 links already. I'll go through them all and see how many I actually have but it will take some time. My understanding is that 1024 or so is the max on a 2413S. So... any thoughts on how to reduce the number of links without reducing functionality? mark [edit] 1764 links is what I count by totallng up all ISY links from all devices.... I think I have a problem

Thanks Lee, I understand about the issue with Insteon traffic. That's why I shut down my Elk and homeseer and stopped all programs. I'm the only one in the house so nobody is changing any devices. I have no wireless devices in my network whatsoever. How would I determine what is reaching the PLM that's stopping the link enumeration? Alternatively, is there a way to determine the number of links the ISY has recorded for me so that I can determine if I've maxed out my PLM? mark

Hi Paul, Is there an option to show the ISY links table for the entire database? All I see is an option to show it device by device... mark

I posted a link of the session above so you can see it happen. It just counts up a few and then stops with no message. Weird. mark

Everything works quite well - I'm just trying to figure out some issues with devices that are quite a distance from the main house. We have a pool in the backyard and I have some communication issues with devices there so I've been swapping out some of the dual-band devices in the house with the older ones down there attempting to improve matters. I wanted to check my PLM links just to ensure that I'm not over the 1k link limit. I have a LOT of links and a LOT of devices so it's a constant fear. I'm wondering if perhaps this PLM behavior isn't a manifestation of too many links but I've not found any articles/posts on the topic. The view you're seeing is actually from exactly what you suggested - I powered down the PLM for a minute and the ISY as well. I then powered up the PLM for a minute or two then powered up the ISY. I've put a condition on the programs main folder (if 0=1) so make sure that nothing in the folder runs. I've turned off my Elk and disabled the M1XEP connection through the ISY configuration and I've turned off my Homeseer PC. That's why I was running the event viewer - to make sure that I didn't have some unwanted traffic messing up the count. I'll reboot again and see.... mark

Here's a video screencap of what I'm seeing https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8j492hm4iwnndx/Rec_008.avi?dl=0

I'm doing some troubleshooting and am trying to check my PLM links. I've stopped all programs, disabled my Elk, and turned off the PC that integrates my ISY to Homeseer so the ISY and PLM should be completely isolated. I start the Tools->Diagnostics->Show PLM Links and it counts to maybe 4 at which point the event viewer shows 'Writing 0 bytes to devices' and the count stops. Is there something I can do to clear this behavior? mark [edit] I've disabled the write to device options and it goes farther now - but it still won't make it more than 30-40 links in. I should be pushing 750-1000 links

I've lost count of PLMs - probably 5 or so by now - but not all were because of failures, some were for functionality/headroom. Funny you mention the PLM fix. I found that thread on the weekend and thought I'd give it a go. Sadly when I went to remove the board from the box I pushed on the ethernet connector and it stripped all the connections off the board. That pretty much stopped me right there. The 'new' PLM I have is actually a few years old as I bought it for a spare. So far it's running nice and cool so I hope it has a long, happy life. mark

Fair enough - it's an easy enough change as the sensors etc. are all wired to the Elk already anyways. The peace of mind will be worth the hour or two of sorting out and testing.

They're already grouped that way for the most part so that approach makes sense. As for the question about what runs the scene every 15 minutes? I guess that was a brain **** on my part lol. Good point! I suppose I was thinking along the lines of having a KPL button that turns them all off - I have those around the house that turn everything off for convenience. mark

As I'm sure many of you do I use my ISY and Insteon to save energy costs. To that end I have routines that turn off lights that I consider 'unnecessary' during the daylight hours. Things like garden lighting, bathroom lights, well lit rooms, seldom used parts of the house etc. Every so often during the day I have a routine that turns these all off. Granted, it can be annoying sometimes but overall I think it's worth it. I've done this, traditionally, by having a scene called 'Unnecessary daytime lights' and have all the devices and triggers in it as responders. Every 15 minutes or so during daylight I send an OFF to the scene and they all shut off. This works fine but it's a big bloody scene now with a ton of members. I have somewhere between 150-200 insteon devices so when I make changes to large scenes it can be a slow process. It also - and correct me if I'm wrong here - chews up PLM space. I maxed out my previous PLM and it took some time to figure out just why things had gotten very strange. Anyways - the alternative method would be to just run a program that shuts lights off in a sequence - so instead of set insteon scene 'unnecessary daytime lights' OFF I could replace it with a program that goes set insteon scene 'garden lights' OFF set insteon scene 'bathroom lights' OFF set insteon scene 'attic light' OFF . . . etc The former causes an instantaneous off of all lights and is pretty neat. The latter is slower as each step happens but is easier to change and doesn't require all devices to be part of a scene. Also the latter requires the ISY to be running while the former doesn't (not an issue for me but who knows what will happen when I sell the house) Any thoughts from the perspective of the ISY internals? mark

Thanks, I'll put some thought into that. I actually have quite a number of unused wires running out to my detached garage at the moment. I had 4 cctv cameras out there which I've since replaced with IP cams. The IP cams simply connect to the PoE network switch that's out there so I have the 8 spare power supply wires and the 4 coax cables sitting out there doing nothing but looking for the next project. Honestly the Insteon control of my GDO hasn't been problematic for me at all. The ALL ON PLM problem is really the first issue I've had. I run HomeSeer in parallel with my ISY system so I have voice announcements of the door opening and closing as well as warnings at night if any of the doors have been left open. The Elk is definitely very robust. The only issues I've had with it have been with the battery powered wireless sensors that can get a bit flaky when the batteries get weak. Since I retired a few years ago I travel more and can't have them going off while I'm away so I replace all the batteries annually even though they really get more like 2 or 3 years. I wish I'd had the foresight to hardwire the sensors but then I had no idea my HA system was going to grow the way it has. The technology has really advanced so quickly. My cat 5e that's everywhere now makes me sad with 6e available lol Mark

Well, it's been a few days now with no repeat of the all on problem so I'm feeling like it may be solved. For any who may search the issue and find this thread I'll offer up what I believe was the cause in hope that it helps you. I believe I had a couple of issues. First was that my motion sensor programs were hammering my PLM. I don't use Insteon motion sensors because of the 9v battery. Rather, I use ISY programs that monitor my alarm sensors via my Elk M1 panel. Every time the sensor would violate it would trigger the program and send an ON to the scene involved. Checking the log this would sometimes result in dozens of hits in a second or two. To eliminate the problem I added a 'flood control' routine where before sending the on I check the status of a variable. The variable goes true when the sensor detects motion and then resets to false after 5 seconds. It's just a way of avoiding re-triggering within a few seconds and it seems to work. I think it's wiser to let the Elk control the lights through its own automation/lighting rules as Elk has a built in retrigger delay - so if you're planning on doing something similar you may want to go that route as it's considerably less complicated and the Elk triggers the lights noticeably faster than an ISY program does. The other issue I had was when I changed out my PLM I didn't re-export the devices to Elk that I allow it to manage. I'm not certain this was a problem as ISY allows you to export devices but not scenes and the devices were stil the same but I re-exported them all the same. Anyways - I'll update the thread if the problem recurs but so far things seem pretty good. Thanks to all for the help and input, mark

Thanks. I'll clear my cache and download the newest UI Much appreciated, mark

Interesting.... That does, indeed, take away the white box. I'm used to seeing the blue ones with the device name in them when I open the admin console and have some unreachable devices. The white one with no device listed is confusing, though. Is that a 'hiccup' of some sort? mark

There will be 2 or 3 devices that say 'failed communicating with' behind the white one. I have a couple of outlets that have no power to them so they're not reachable. Those ones are all blue and have device names attached. Are you saying that this white box is somehow related to the other ones? I do use the admin.jnlp link on my desktop - I have to as I use Chrome. mark

Thanks Michel.... Which device, though? It doesn't tell me.... I've had this message before but it always tells me which device and the message box is blue. This message box is white and lists no device. mark

I've been getting this message for some time now. Any thoughts on how to resolve it? Here's a screen grab.

The activity before the status query was part of a routine that recurs every 5 minutes. The routine shuts off any unnecessary lights and makes sure that hot water tanks etc. that are supposed to be on or off are, indeed, the way they're supposed to be. I have a series of flags for which things in the house should be on and when and the routine just goes through making sure that nobody has changed anything. So... you can see that the same routine happened at 8:20 and then again at 8:25. The status query is actually part of that routine but I cut the first one off in the log when I cut/pasted. I can't remember why I had that in there - I wrote this routine several years ago. I think it was to ensure that the info ISY had about some devices was current but I can't remember. I've removed that line from the routine now as I don't think I need it. I'm not sure what you mean by 'nothing you mentioned indicated 8pm'. mark

Back yard / LIGHT - Nanny House Patio Fast Off Fri 2016/05/20 08:20:04 PM Program Log Back yard / KPL - PH2 - Pool House Off 0 Fri 2016/05/20 08:20:04 PM Program Log Master Bedroom / Towel Warmer On Fri 2016/05/20 08:20:05 PM Program Log Hot Water Tank - Kitchen On Fri 2016/05/20 08:20:05 PM Program Log Hot Water Tank - Master Bedro On Fri 2016/05/20 08:20:06 PM Program Log Scene:Laundry / Laundry KPLs for sync On Fri 2016/05/20 08:20:06 PM Program Log Scene:Back yard / Guest House Patio Status Query Fri 2016/05/20 08:25:03 PM Program Log Garage/Shop / LIGHT - G2 - Outside Fast Off Fri 2016/05/20 08:25:04 PM Program Log Garage/Shop / LIGHT - G2 Inside Fast Off Fri 2016/05/20 08:25:04 PM Program Log Back yard / LIGHT - Nanny House Patio Fast Off Fri 2016/05/20 08:25:04 PM Program Log Back yard / KPL - PH2 - Pool House Off 0 Fri 2016/05/20 08:25:04 PM Program Log Master Bedroom / Towel Warmer On Fri 2016/05/20 08:25:06 PM Program Log Hot Water Tank - Kitchen On Fri 2016/05/20 08:25:06 PM Program Log Hot Water Tank - Master Bedro On Fri 2016/05/20 08:25:06 PM Program Log Scene:Laundry / Laundry KPLs for sync On Fri 2016/05/20 08:25:07 PM Program Log Get Topology ELK-TX Fri 2016/05/20 08:26:49 PM System Log Here's the log in the minute or two leading up to the all-on event. Do you see anything in it? Is there a way to upgrade a PLM?

Well it just happened yet again. I checked my log immediately and found nothing weird other than the last line in the log is an 'Elk - Get Topology' call which I'm not sure exactly what means. I noticed in another thread that UDI is able to upgrade some PLM's to different firmware... does anyone know if that's still an option and if so who to contact? Thanks, mark