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Not to split hairs on this one and I think you get it, but technically what I read Matter is at the Application layer. I'm thinking of the OSI model where Protocol is in a different layer, but there are so many terms it is easy for the conversationto get complicated. I don't know that this has really been addressed in detail, but to me more of the modern products tend to be more secure than older. Emphasizing over performance I don't know. I don't think anyone will address the popcorn effect and Matter because it may be up to the individual manufacturers. I think we messaged about that earlier in the thread. I read today that Hue will be upgradeable to Matter, but their Wiz lights wont be. I'm guessing it is the difference in the Zigbee vs non-Zigbee product. The fact that Hue can do it should to me mean it is possible, whether it is important to manufacturers or not, who knows....Now that I get its an application layer technology, more than anything, it will probably be up to the manufacturer since its more about communication than common feature sets. For the record I hate the popcorn effect and will spend more to not deal with it. I think if folks aren't careful and buy things with WiFi radios that are for Matter this is entirely possible. If they stay on the Thread radio, I don't see how there could be any affect. I think the bigger issue to this point is one more thing to troubleshoot....Is it a Matter device, ok is it my WiFi network, is the BLE, is it the Thread radio???? Who knows.... I'm gonna use a term a heard recently...Confusionopoly. Creating so many choices consumers can't identify clearly what the differences are and they spend more money.🤣 I think a good slogan for Matter is "It doesn't matter". Could be taken either way!! I worked with @Athlonrecently through us upgrading our Z-Wave switch firmware so ramp rates for on and off could be used with Progarms/Scene/Automations and Voice, not just at the paddle. This was frustrating to think a manufacturer releasing a product that wasn't capable of this basic functionality, that in Insteon world works right out of the box(Not arguing for locked firmware). This was a little preview to me of what we can expect with Matter. I may be totally wrong and hope I am, but is Matter just another product with planned obsolescence and confusion....to force more upgrades later. Personally I like to get a few product types that work well and stick with them, but as I said in an earlier post, I wont let my apprehension about Matter affect me wanting the capability in my eisy(when I get it).

Totally agree with this. I think it’s more effort than it’s worth to hack an Insteon network. Maybe in a contested area in a multi tenant facility you might have someone that plays around and does it, but most likely those types that want to do that are on IP networks. I would think it would be more of a targeted attack for an Insteon network. Matter is supposed to have security built in and here’s something to think on….NAT typically masks our private IPv4 address from the internet and private IPv4 addresses used in our home networks are not even routable to the end device without a static nat translation on a routing device. IPv6 as I understand all addresses are routable and NAT is not used. A gateway device for the Matter network “should” provide some level of protection if implemented correctly. But some things to think about that concern me are what happens when we start using IPv6 from our internet providers, and few iterations of Matter….it’s not out of the imagination these devices could be accessed from the internet directly since their IPv6 is a routable address. The Insteon ID is not routable by itself without a gateway so while there is no security to me it’s 2 different levels of risk. Edit: To put this clearly. Insteon IDs are not routable. I realized after re-reading it might sound like they are. Hubs or ISY have to “speak the Insteon language” so their will always be a gateway device like a PLM or Hub translating to the Insteon network from the IP network.

Hahaha. I wasn’t sure where I had seen it, but it’s absolutely perfect and has stuck with me every time matter comes up!!! Thank you for giving me good material!

The short version of my response above. It's more like Zigbee in disguise than WiFi in disguise.

From what I understand no. I understand Matter uses IPv6 addresses, but it doesn't communicate over WiFi. It uses Thread in the communication layer where WiFi is It will need the gateway to bridge it to traditional IP networking connect to the internet. Thread is purpose built smaller data. An article I'm reading now to verify this says Thread was developed in 2014 by Nest. Also for what it's worth IPv6 has less overhead than IPv4. I think IPv6 is a good choice for identifying the device uniquely because there is plenty of capacity and already has an allocation and assignment process vs using something like Insteon ID's that is smaller limit of usable addresses and managed privately. When I think of WiFi and home automation, I think of WiFi as using something WiFi wasn't designed for in mind, while thread is designed for Home Automation. You can definitely send similar data traffic over both...but since Thread is made for smaller data it wouldn't support things like streaming, big file downloads, etc... EDIT: INFO ADDED: Also thread is a mesh network which makes it different than a traditional Wi-Fi where dedicated repeaters are needed. Devices can communicate and repeat directly from each other. Also Thread is designed to be less power hungry like WiFi which should give better battery life. It also operates in the same band as Zigbee.

....I will just leave this here

That's the camp I'm in.

I haven't read as much about the API, but Ken Fairbanks in the podcast made it sound like that might be how it works with Insteon in some future iteration. My understanding is Matter will use IPv6 addresses on the device, but not be on WiFi....this was confusing to me at first. But it will use a communication layer like we refer to WiFi but its called thread. Its wireless and performs a mesh, but its not on your WiFi network. A pure Matter environment would not be API intensive, but would have IP gateway a hub type device that has the Matter/Thread stack and the Wifi/Ethernet together. Similar to how an Insteon Hub bridges IP and Insteon together. From what I understand there will be API's much like we all use when using node servers or the great UDI Polisy/ISY API that Home Assistant connects too. To me I think Matter will just be another standard, cause I dont think anybody will rip and replace what they have. It is interesting, but time will tell. The rest is speculation. I'm cautiously putting this out there cause I have pieced this together from multiple reads and is my understanding. There are also some very passionate opinions about Matter.....fingers cross this doesn't turn into a thread hi-jack! hahah

EDIT: Order this not what I posted originally. This link is based off @Brian H post below. Searching Amazon seems to give inconsistent results. When searching just the battery number like I did originally I could only find something close. Searching "LiPo 302545" gets the right battery linked below. I verified 302545 matches the battery I removed from the remote. Order this: https://a.co/d/0PVYmo7 Don't order this below in my original post. 3.7V 150mAh 302530 Lipo Battery Rechargeable Lithium Polymer ion Battery Pack with JST Connector https://a.co/d/aF8tM92 I can confirm this battery fits in the case. It’s a little smaller but about the same thickness as the original battery. It is less mah…the original is 300 mah. So would have half the capacity. I can’t confirm my repair process is the best because ultimately I broke all 4 clips. I tried to scrap and cut the glue seal but it seemed the glue was underneath the clips too. I cleaned up what was left of the clips off the case. Soldered in the new battery. Used E6000 glue on top of my solder to help insulate and keep stress of the solder points. Also used E6000 glue on the case to hold it back together. I’m waiting for it to set now. I pushed the glue into the cracks with my fingers and then wiped the excess off. I have a couple of small wood working clamps lightly keeping the case in position together as the glue dries. I have only opened 2 of these but this one had a button arrangement under it that could be for the 4/8 way scene. The other one just had enough to be the single switch. So I definitely have 2 revisions but the clips on both mine I opened so far broke.

I love these tidbits that I pick up on these posts about how to repair something like this and love that I know what a tape deck is!! Glue would definitely explain the inconsistent experience between your 3 and the 4th one and what I saw. Ironically only 1 of my clips seemed to where I could get it to come open. The other 3 were tight. I tried using small plastic pry tools and then small electronics flat head screw driver and could only break one seal. But getting confirmation from you and lilyoyo1 I can try to change my approach. Any tips on breaking glue would be appreciated. I hope Insteon updates this design in the future to make it more field serviceable….I think the corporate buzz phrase is “sustainable design”🤣 Where I don’t need a direct link like Insteon I have already moved to A Zooz device that is similar but has a standard CR2032 replaceable battery and the case opens and closes securely.

Thank you I was starting to suspect that but I couldn't see it really well. I was able to get one pried off but only after I broke the seal. The others I was trying to use a sharp flathead screw driver to break the glue seal. I wasnt sure if OP had actually gotten all 3 off that easily.

Am I understanding you did get it open and only 1 of the 4 clips broke? I have one sitting here and my desk too with a small screwdriver and it looks like it would break like the other one I worked on. It looks like it should come apart, but it doesnt seem to want to budge. I used some plastic tools made for opening screw less cases and couldn't make any head way either.... Just wanting to confirm 3 did not break and are still intact after opening.

Did you get it open? My experience was I broke all 4 clips. All 4 looked like thin, but attached to both larger pieces of the switch housing. I did experiment with a repair of cutting off the broken tabs with a small serrated blade and using a small layer of E6000 glue....Im not sold on this method. I have 3 that I need to replace the battery.

Thank you for sharing! That is very encouraging. It’s nice to have more details as it relates to new devices. I know it won’t change the communicated months to get new inventory, encouraging no doubt.

Politics aside, I realize there are tensions with China and Taiwan, and the impact of the visit mentioned does have risks. The above statement from @Geddy probably the most underrated statement above, because a majority of advanced chips are made in Taiwan. A quick search returns a number 90% of the advanced chips that are manufactured are made in Taiwan!! Ultimately any thing being done now to increase chip supply is not a right now fix whether it takes 2 or 7 years....wonder if any supply chain constraints will affect manufacturing of these highly complex facilities 😀?(rhetorical question)

Agreed. I took it that way as well.

I have read a thread where it is supported in Polisy but not consistently with all devices and confirm it does with my Zooz hardware. I tried this week with Zooz gear and could get it to work with the Polisy off, but it was slow....very slow. And I dont mean a 500 ms slow....Like 10 seconds...Made me think at first it wasn't working. When I powered back up the Polisy it was instant. If this is expected behavior I cant recommend it. I used Basic Scene Ctl 2 on both the responder and the controller. Then used the option selected below "Z-Wave Basic MC" I don't understand the protocol enough to know if I did something wrong or if the slow speed was just how it works...but the controller was 10 feet from the responder. This wasn't a permanent setup, and mainly wanted to test the functionality so I removed the devices from the test scene. I was using a Zooz: Zen71(controller) and Zen77(responder) For the cost of the materials, personally I would recommend "wire in the wall". It would give a real 3 way if you need it and options later. Zooz also has direct wire 3 way switches that only need to replace one switch. The Zooz Zen 77 can do this and there is a non-dimmer version that can work with dumb 3-way switches as well. The dumb switch just cant change the brightness like the Z-Wave

HAHA! I'm sure there were supply chain problems even it it were products sitting on containers in the ocean or lack of cash to pay for manufacturing or chip sourcing. Take a pick!! 😂 There is a couple of options I have read speculations on here and other places about sourcing....Michel mentioned in one post there was some Nokia gear I think in storage that needed fees paid....So I dont think Michel's teaser of PLM news next week is directly related to supply chain constraints or lack there of. Anything else I would say would pure speculation on my part. But ultimately it sounds like there is equipment that is made and not held up somewhere in the manufacturing process. I did read an interesting article about chip manufacturing and it is COMPLEX...beyond my understanding, but no doubt you can't order chips today and get them tomorrow if there is an immediate need and no stock. Will be glad to share the link if anyone wants it, but here are some quotes are below in italics.(You could probably just Google one of the quotes if interested as the article was on Time Magazine site) My take is Michel is transparent with his customers and will tell us what he can when he can. What the old regime did at SH/Insteon.....who knows, but personally I have seen the supply chain blamed for tons of things real and imagined. The supply chain constraints are real and chip manufacturing is slow, but the specifics on SH/Insteon chip problems we probably will never know the whole story. The new Insteon regime I can imagine getting new manufactured equipment will take the months communicated because the process is so complicated with chip manufacturing. *Disclaimer, I am making the assumption the Insteon chips are as time intensive or somewhat as time consuming as I understood from the article quoted below. “I use an analogy like baking a cake,” says Belfi, an automation engineer at chipmaker GlobalFoundries. “The only difference is our cake is about 66 layers.” "But new chip fabs take years. Analysts now worry that the auto chip shortage will slosh back to consumer electronics, affecting manufacturing all the way to Christmas. “Never seen anything like it,” tweeted Tesla CEO Elon Musk." *Fabs is the term for for chip manufacturing "In 1990, 37% of chips were made in American factories, but by 2020 that number had declined to just 12%. All the new pieces of the growing pie had gone to Asia: Taiwan, South Korea and China. Chip fabs aren’t just factories, but linchpins of American self-reliance." "Humans intrude only when something goes wrong. The showstopper is a problem with one of the lithography machines, which set the pace of the whole operation. Each costs more than $100 million. “When one of those go down, it is all hands on deck,” says Belfi.Yet when COVID-19 hit, the fab never stopped. " "At GlobalFoundries, the journey from raw material to finished chip—what engineers like Belfi call the “process flow”—is typically 85 days and encompasses more than a thousand steps." One last takeaway if you made it this far...getting additional fab capacity takes a very long and lots of money so adding capacity to a strained market is not fixed quickly.

@MrBill Thank you. I like that idea. I trying to not let my exploration of the capabilities hinder future manageability, so I appreciate you tell me that its working well for you. So many power features. Now I have to find some good PNG files 😀. Thank you for the other ideas as well, I am still learning the best way to send them. I have used the NR based on another thread I read where you recommending sending them to the NS instead of the PO api since Jimbo NS will retry. No problem at all I'm sure I couldn't afford real time support 😂 Thank you following up and let me know if you find a way to have a subject with the Custom Notification please let me know. Otherwise there are enough options there for great functionality and give me what I need. I do appreciate your time and effort in responding!!

Thank you @MrBillI do want to be clear as possible when tagging Jimbo and appreciate your help always. Yes I am using Pushover. Would really like to hear your methods as it was another post of yours about Jimbo's Notification NS that helped me see the value and robustness of it.

Thank you. That seemed to be the case at first when I only had one room. After I added some additional lights, rooms, and Play setup with the TV none of my scenes seemed to work. Not even my first 2 that had previously worked. I could see the new lights in the NS and tried a few times to resync. I haven't had a lot of time to dig back into that, but I will take another look. At first I had 2 scenes so it wasn't that bad, now I have several across the 3 rooms, and I dont remember what order I added them, so it would take some going back and forth to verify and then document which one did what.

Thank you. I am just starting to work with NR some and was keeping an eye on this thread. Looks like you had some rubber duck debugging on this one!😀

@JimboAutomates Just got this setup and working last night thanks to a suggestion from @MrBill in another thread to someone else. I was just at the point of starting some notifications and didnt like the depending on email or text. Great job! Lots of Options and Highly Configurable. Also thank you for the ability to use Network Resources and custom content. Very well thought out. Great documentation too. I like how in the NS Config page it brings my specific variables like my IP address and Pushover Service Node Names in. Is it expected behavior to not see a subject line when using Custom Notification from Polisy? I get the api app name that I created in the pushover dashboard. I changed the name in pushover and it changed in the subject line on the next test send. Also, there may be a small typo on the PG3 NS config page that produces the same behavior as above, but for Network Resources. The parameter for the Subject line is capitalized in the example for the path, but changing it to lowercase seems to correct the issue and will send the custom subject line. This is when using Network Resources to send a request to the node server. From the config guide on PG3: /send?node=po_dub&Subject=My+Subject&monospace=1&device=1&priority=2 With lowercase s this sends the subject line: /send?node=po_dub&subject=My+Subject&monospace=1&device=1&priority=2 *Edit(Add) went back and looked at the config documents on Github, the "subject" parameter there is in lower case in the example code. My assumption is now this a typo on the NS config page and hopefully this helps someone. I accidentally typo'd a parameter experimenting with pure NS to Pushover api with similar results before installing this NS. This is the example of the Network Resource that does send a subject line:

I have hesitated responding as the Node Server is free and you gotta be a genius to write something as great as this. I really appreciate the efforts of this developer, the time, and effort needed to produce a great product like this. My one request and this is not a complaint, but would be the ability to call the scene by name. As changes are made on the Hub the scenes seem to move to other generic names. Currently I am using NR to call the scene by the unique ID in the Hue Hub, thanks to a write up on the Hue forums I was able to identify all the variables. In the spirit of the upcoming eisy aka easy, I think this would make the adoption better for users that may not be able to get the variables and use the network resources. I can currently see the scene names and the variables in the logs, but thats the limit of my technically ability as far as mapping them back in the interface. It's a great node server! Thank you!