lilyoyo1
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Posts posted by lilyoyo1
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I guess it's my turn to chime in on here. There are no perfect protocols. Each one of them has pros and cons. The best way to minimize the consequences of any protocol is to properly plan your installation and being willing to invest in the time and money to ensure a proper running system.
From my personal experience, insteon signal issues from the Powerline is overrated. Will some people have problems yes. But there are fixes. When it comes to RF, the fixes aren't as straight forward or easy to figure out. In my equipment room, I have a filterlinc. Do I need one? Probably not. But I have it there to be safe as I am aware of what could happen. I also have a coupler in my panel. Once again, not really needed for for a few dollars it was well worth the peace of mind.
I'd say stick with 1 protocol for the majority of your things and then use the other protocols to fill in gaps. For example, I prefer insteon switches and zwave (fibaro) sensors. I use Cooper outlets for zwave repeating.
I get a trip out of people stating insteon is bad because it's only them, so you'd be putting all your eggs into 1 basket. My point of view is while Zwave has multiple mfgs, you'll generally go with only 1 of them for your switches (unless you wanted different looking switches all over). With that said, that single mfg. can still go out of business putting you in the same boat as with insteon.
In closing, you'll be fine with whomever you choose. Just be willing to invest wisely with time and money and you will be ok
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When I built my house, I built it as if automation would not be used and put switches in accordingly. That way should I sell it, do away with it, or technology changes; I can always change at a lower cost than with home runs or custom style setups.
I differ from Larryllix in that I prefer keypads. Each room has a minimum of 1 at the entry for controlling multiple things. Major rooms have 2 side by side. 1 for controlling the room and 1 status/control of various things. Some rooms have multiple keypads such as my dining room since it has multiple entrances.
All of the other switches are still located in the proper places but the kpl allows me to control things based off of scenes instead of individual lights.
For example, my family room has lamps with hue bulbs, 3 chandeliers,blinds and recessed lights. Regardless of what's on, hitting my relaxed button will turn off the recessed lights, dim the chandeliers to 15 percent, lower the blinds and change my bulb colors. Hitting my goodnight will set the recessed lights to 25%, close the blinds if they are open, turn on the steps and hallways to see to get upstairs. Everything is on a 10 minute timer and turns off by themselves. Double tapping the goodnight button does all the same but sets my bedroom upthe way I like to go to bed.
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Under or else put 100%. That way during any other times it goes to 100 instead of 10
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I have a kohler whole house with zero issues
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The load will always turn on if you manually turn the switch on. The only way to prevent the load from turning on would be to disconnect the load wire and use the switch as a remote.
That location would be a good place to use a kpl. Then you can still have the load as well as increased function because of the other buttons.
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To expand on what Stusviews added, if you want other kpl buttons to turn off add those buttons to your scenes in the off position. For example if button b is turned on and you want button c off, add button c to the B scene and set it to off.
In my example the light is for button B and the lamp is button C
Kpl B Controller On
Remote B Controller
Kpl C responder Off
Light responder On
Lamp responder off
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Either way, 50 bucks for 2 years access is well worth the time and effort to make it work. That's less than the cost of dinner out
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I have a whole house generator which kicks in pretty fast. However, I don't put my ISY on its own battery backup simply because I want it to reboot with the devices so that it can pick up proper status of devices again once it reboots. I tried a battery backup a long time ago but I found the ISY wouldnt update properly so I would need to reboot it anyway. Instead of going through that, it was just easier to let it reboot when power came on. I've only lost power a few times since my house was built so the frequency it happens really isnt worth it for me.
Like Teken says, it comes down to your usage. I don't think either way is wrong
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You must be in Cali. LolWe have a raccoon that likes to sleep on our deck and leave piles of staining remnants. Hot pepper spray cures that for a few years or at least until it rains and washes it away again. Usually the raccoon has found a new resting place by then so we don't see it for a few years.
You can buy this commercially mixed in a spray bottle, or make your own. A small bottle of Tobasco sauce in a gallon of water. Other recipies are based on making a steeped tea of cayenne peper and then diluting it about several gallons of water to a cup full of solution.
We have skunks that wander right past us when at an evening campfire, in our sideyard firepit area, and coyote packs that stop yipping when we flash our porch lights. They have taken on a few of the neighbourhood cats at times. What a racket! But nobody has complained their cat has gone missing yet, so the cats must do well against a 4 or 5 coyote pups.
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When it comes to basic hue control, this is the easiest way to go when using the ISY since you don't need to worry about configuring a rasberry pi, polyglot, etc. However using the rasberry pi route gives you more capability.
Smartthings is nice and I believe it now supports hue lights without a bridge. However i think (long term) you'd be much happier with the ISY over Smartthings
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Not at all true. An insteon switch can be linked to any number of switches. Removing the load circuitry has nothing at all to do with which switches it can be linked to.
Precisely. Like I said, they figured they could make the sale because the switch did what it needed to. . . so what if it does extra if the customer will pay for the useless part anyway.
I was speaking on how other companies do their 3way switches. For example, the GE jasco uses the traveler so it will not talk to another switch (may have changed since I tested capabilities but it was that way at one time). In the end, it's irrelevant as this is all hypothetical. They made their choice and from a personal standpoint, I agree with it
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Once again. I said SOURCE. Meaning someone who makes decisions. Not someone who simply answers the phone.
Some items smarthome sells are extremely slow sellers. They aren't there expecting to be hits or big sellers but are there for a specific purpose/loss leader.
Yes if you don't do your own home you can always buy more devices. However, should you change how you do things (such as I did) a person is able to use switches they changed out in other locations instead of buying new switches.
Not sure about what's so hard to follow. If you're putting in a switch simply to connect to another switch for a 3way it simply allows control of those 2 devices. Having full control over a device allows for more configuration. As I stated, I am able to do different things depending on what light I am at instead of simple turning on/of the switch that is connected to it.
At the end of the day neither of our opinions matter. Insteon made a decision they felt would be in their best interest and went with it. If you don't like it you can always show your displeasure by voting with your wallet. Switch over to zwave and you have what you're looking for. He has them pretty cheap
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For my part. Voice activation is fun, makes for a nice party trick, and is sometimes actually useful, but it is definitely not a replacement for a switch at each entry/exit location. Saying the words and waiting for the response is quite a drawn out process compared to the reflexive and simple "tap" it takes to turn the light on using the 3-way that I'm walking right past. I use voice in that unusual situaton where I want to change the light after already engaging myself in an activity within the room. Somehow, I don't think I'm unique in how I function. The rest of my family behaves the same as I of their own accord.
For my part, I have never re-purposed a switch. I have replaced failed switches and I have upgraded to dual band. But every location that I have ever installed a switchlinc still has a swtichlinc. I have only kind of sort repurposed some switches when I replaced an otherwise working single band with a dual band. But mostly not. I'm just not into the idea of wasting my time instaling an old, inferior switch, that is likely to just give me trouble and need to be replaced again. I just don't know what sort of re-purpose you would even do. You might, I guess decide to just go back to old fashioned switch, or maybe go to a KPL, but how many times might you do that?
If a regular Swtichlnc with load costs $49.99 and a non-load swtich cost $29.99 . . . .I would absolutely buy them. If it were $49.99 and $44.99 . . .no, I wouldn't bother. But $20 a piece times a lot of switches adds up. And a non-load Insteon swtich would be better than a zwave slave since does not require 3 way wiring to the desired load, it only needs a hot and neutral.
This popy-cock from whoever mystery person at SH that they had too many returns becuase of confused customers. Well, that is just on them. It just isn't that hard to make it clear in the description what it doesn't do. If they wrote their descriptions better for all of their dfvices I bet they would have a lot fewer returns. Sure, sometimes you just can't fix stupid, and that is going to get you no matter what you sell or don't sell.
Personally I have 18 switchlncs that have no load attached (and another 39 with loads). If I could have saved $360 installing otherwise identical no-load switches, heck yeah!
A house that is fully done likely would not have parts repurposed. However, if a person has a couple of rooms done, they have additional rooms to grow. For example, when I first got into insteon, I did mostly switches/dimmers in my rooms and no kpls.. As I grew, I replaced some with keypads to give more capabilities. When I did that, those additional switches were used in other locations saving a few hundred dollars in the process. Had they been remote only (based off the prices you stated), I wouldve saved 100 bucks initially but would've spent much more afterwards. In the grand scheme of things, 20 extra bucks isnt much money. For those just starting out, it probably helps more in the long run (as others have attested to) in regards to ease of use and mistakes.
Another thing is the ability to have different things happen from different locations. Turning on my upstairs switch triggers certain things during certain hours while the downstairs does others. Had this been 1 real and 1 remote, I would not have that capability
As far as popy-cock the person remains unnamed simply because they may not want their name in the forum. I dont have to name drop to prove my point. Stusviews knows people at Insteon as well yet you never hear him mention anyone by name personally. There are reasons for that. Doesn't mean that others do not know people who work there. Whether its him or others with close contacts there, we simply choose to leave them out of here. IF they choose to chime in here they can but it is not for me to do so for them to appease you. Either way, while you may not like their decision it was made for what they feel is in their best interest not yours.
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Sorry to the OP ~ Another review that had milk pouring out my nose.
That one is priceless.
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LOL . . .
Or ~ Reading follow up reviews where the product met all the users needs and desires. Yet, these stupid fools still provided a 1~3 star rating on the product instead of a 5?!?!?
I can't imagine being a upstanding vendor who makes a solid product, offers service after the sale, and still gets hammered on reviews in the public!!!
As an aside there's one Amazon review which I believe has been going on for five years. Its quite the doozy and for the life of me can't recall what its about. All I know is the guy bought something that had nothing to do with what he needed. Even after asking tons of people who told him to purchase the correct hardware. He ignored everyone and purchased the incorrect hardware and then has the balls to come back to Amazon saying the product didn't suite the use case?
That was a real WTF . . .
I didnt see that particular review but I've seen plenty like it. Many times its because its the cheaper item than what was recommended. A friend of mine said it best; "Make something dummy proof and someone will come along and prove you wrong".
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Did SH publish this information? If someone on the phone told you this, well we all have had curious conversations with people on the phone at SH where plenty of information that was incorrect either because of ignorance or just to shut you up. The tact switch issue comes to mind until finally the owned up to it. And the excuses on the failing PLM's seemed to have been company policy until just the past few months.
Of course having full capabiity on a switch where the load is capped does not benefit anyone.
If indeed SH had a high return rate, I place the blame squarely on the item description. It would be easy to make it clear what it did not do. SH sells a "slave" thermostat right now. Frankly, the description on it could be better and I wouldn't be surprised if they get returns on it because of that.
Unlike you, I don't need to deal with people on the phone or go off second hand information. As I stated, my information came from the source, not cst.
In regards to better information, unfortunately many people simply fail to read the information at hand. They will see 2 like things and purchase the cheaper of the 2. This is shown all over other companies webpages. Go to Amazon's, Lowe's or home Depot's website and you'll see questions asked and the information they are asking for will be in the first line.
Unfortunately people are lazy. You can't count on people to read let alone research before they buy.
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I don't think it is any of these. I think it is simple profit motive. They figured it wouldn't change their profit. Cause
1) I think there are lots of people who like me have lots of 3 and 4 ways. I would probably have 40% non-load bearing if it saved me money. You'll notice zwave does have a 3-way non-load switch in their setup. So demand seems to exist.
2) Insteon sells a "non-load" thermostat and a real thermostat that look exactly the same. The non-load is cheaper. Do they have troubles? I don't know, but if they did I would expect a little more warning in the description. Plus, there are already 4 Insteon switchlincs that look identical, so if you're just looking at pictures, you'll get that wrong 75% of the time.
3) Don't buy this one either. Once you install a switchlinc, odds are you remove only because of failure of the switch or simply giving up on Insteon. I don't envision a whole lot of people rearranging their switches just cause.
Being that my info comes straight from the horses mouth means it is their reasons cited.
Yes zwave and X10 both have/had remote only devices....along with a high return date from smarthome customers who purchased the wrong thing when they carried a larger selection of those items.
Maybe for your install having remote capabilities works. But for many others, having full capabilities has an even greater benefit. Either way, insteon determined having one extra device that did nothing simply wasn't worth the cost
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The desire to stay away from Zwave was not mentioned until now. Information like that would help in regards to people being able to provide assistance. Zwave and RTS are not the same. Stus post (#2) details how you would go about integrating RTS with the ISY. Simply disregard his info. about zwave
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Yes, I understand his request. However, the logic was that he is "wasting" that load capable device by not having a load attached. You can solve the "waste" by a) figureing a way to use the load capacity, or b ) substituting a non-load capable device. Since option a is not possible and super unlikely to ever be, I was pondering why a option b isn't addressed. I don't recall ever seeing SH sell the switch you refer to. It must have been quite a long time ago.
I do find it surprising that you don't have any 3 way applications in your home, aside from perhaps your table top units. Most switches in my home are 3 way (or 4) resulting quite a few unused load capable devices.
It may just be that the marginal cost of adding load capacity is so small that it isn't worth it for them. But somehow, it seems like the load circuitry would be the most expensive part of the switch.
There are multiple reasons for this.
1st is cost. To carry a device that has limited use didn't seem worthwhile.
2nd is simplicity. People mess up more often than what shows on these forums. As an oem/retailer, youbrun The risk of people not reading (happens far to often) and simply buying the wrong product because they see the same part cheaper. This in turns leads to more phone calls and questions for cst.
3rd is options. By having all devices standardized, switches can be used in multiple places. Maybe your needs change or you move. If half your switches are remotes, then you're purchasing more devices when you could've simply swapped for another one
There were a couple of more reasons but I don't remember them all
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Bali autoview blinds are zwave. You will have to go through Lowe's, home Depot, etc. I've seen them with 25% off sales on a regular basis. Unless you need them in a hurry, I would wait until a sale and get them.
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I don't like how the toggle off works so I didn't set mine up like that. Plus a DBL tap has a different function for me.
When I hit my all off button the kpl back light stays on. I have a program that will automatically turn it off once pressed. This way I get the same benefit as toggle off but additional functionality
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Instead of leaving my lights on in the same situation, I have a program that turns the button light off after it is used. That way no matter what I do, hitting my all off will always trigger the way I like
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I'll keep using my ecobee 3's. I never liked how the insteon thermostats looked
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Once again however, each one of those devices would need something in front of it to connect to it remotely. Judging by the numerous posts on here about lack of range, I highly doubt somoeone could get close enough to a person's house to hack their insteon thermostat directly.
Reminds me of a story where I was putting locks on someone's house. They were afraid of someone hacking their system and breaking in. W/O sayimg a Word, I walked to their backyard, took a chair from their patio, opened their kitchen window, and climbed in. Could someone hacking and unlock his doors? Of course, but there are much easier methods to do so.
The all on stuff is all theory. It's only a security issue if you have your garage door on an iolinc. Remove that and it becomes a nuisance bug. With that said, the cause has not been pinpointed. It's easy to blame either company but yet it happens under many different conditions. Blaming the plm is misguided due to the fact that only the ISY experiences this issue. Not homeseer, Indigo, houselinc, castleos, etc. Even the hub's (based off the plm) do not have that issue.
Even if you could hack the iolinc to open a person's garage door, there are still easier and faster ways of opening it. The only true and safe way of doing so would be to be off-site at which point they would go through whatever controller a person was using.
The way insteon works by default is like having locks on your door and locking them. Encryption would be like putting a heavy duty security door on your house.
If insteon or zwave were wifi based devices I would feel different. To each their own however. I do recognize the prevailing thoughts of many people, so I do agree encryption is needed from a business standpoint. Just not a reality standpoint (for the individual devices)
Insteon and the future
in ISY994
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If you're not experiencing comm issues then it's not something I'd worry about. If all your devices are communicating then your phases are bridged. I use the insteon phase coupler because it also helps clean line noise.
The Potential for interfere is there but it's generally fixable. People can say it's stagnant due to interference but thats fixable as others have stated. I wouldn't worry about it especially since you have a working system. From my experience insteon has been great for me. Zwave too for that matter but I feel like I have to work harder with zwave than with insteon