ccclapp

Hi I am testing zooz Zen72 smart dimmer. This is designed to control scenes/devices via 2, 3, 4, 5, up/down presses. I have set zwave parameter #13 to 1 per... https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/538-zen72-dimmer-switch-700-advanced-settings/#:~:text=Parameter 13%3A Enable or disable,for quick double tap triggers. However in eisy I do not see these are triggers in programs, not as possible controllers in scenes. eisy simply brings in the dimmer as a single device/node/entity Does isy not support this functionality? Thanks

Thanks. This is working for some programs but not for others. There is no apparent reason, all are simple working programs.

Ok, this is strange, some programs do copy via r-click->copy. But some dont???

Hi Sorry for my basic question but I have searched wiki and forum and can not remember how to copy/duplicate a program. I just want to duplicate an existing program so I can make some edits for testing. I see right-click -> copy but no paste and nothing happens when I just do copy. I am on latest firmware on an eisy after migrating from 994 Thanks

Yes it was closed by the developer so I reposted in the general forums with a little modification, here.. . https://community.home-assistant.io/t/scenes-groups-associations-store-natively-in-device-please/592935

HI Thanks Darn,I was hoping to avoid this, as many scenes x many brightness levels = too many I regularly dim/brighten a given scene from a KP button and its not really time or event specific to automate. Thanks for the clarification

Hi @brians and @shbatm Thanks for your clear and thorough replies. That is helpful. I have and will continue to be a loyal and long-term isy user (just got my eisy w zmatter :-). I am expanding/revamping my overall automation/control setup significantly and will also incorporate HA, which is new to me. As such I am trying to understand the subtilties of protocol options: Insteon, Z-Wave and Zigbee, and the particulars and interactions of multiple hubs (ISY/HA). You and this string are helping clarify both. Here are a few quick follow-ups: A basic question that is still not clear: Can isy insteon scenes be dimmed or their brightness specified (of the scene itself, as I know each device level is set in the scene config) in HA, or via Alexa/Google Assistant, or even within ISY? I often dim/brighten larger lighting scenes via the KP button, but dont know if and where is can be done virtually. Above @Michel Kohanim confirmed that isy does write natively to z-wave devices in a scene (Associations as @shbatm clarified) - great! But Michel didnt say if, like with Insteon, for z-wave isy will send a single command to control a zwave scene (Multicast per shbatm). Does ISY do this for zwaye or does it send separate commands for each zw device in a zw scene? If "yes" to the above, getting even more granular: in isy with a scene with BOTH insteon and zw devices, does isy now send separate commands to ALL devices in the scene, or just two, one to each protocol. eg: 1 scene w 4 insteon devices and 5 zwave devices. Is Turn On 1, 2, or 9 commands? For Zigbee, (which is 1 week old on ISY so likely not with 100% capabilities yet) shbatm explains it has similar "direct Binding" and "Group" capabilities, like insteon multi-device links and scenes and zw direct Associations and Multicast. (But Michel also said for Zigbee "scenes" the question was more complicated??). So, all three protocols seem to have similar capabilities in terms of multi-device native links/associations/bindings between same protocol devices, AND single message commands to activate a single protocol scene/group/milticast. Thus my question is: are the three protocols reasonably in the same playing field in these regards (acknowledging differences in communication specifics/speed/distance etc AND assuming the "links" and "scenes" are made by a native controller eg ISY/Zigbee2MGTT/ZWaveJS UI etc, (ie not in HA directly))? Or, are there significant pros/cons of one over another in this regard (meaning, direct "pairings for communication" AND Single network commands addressing multiple devices simultaneously" as @shbatm nicely labels these)? Does HA have more ability to dim or specify brightness level of "scenes" from external hubs/controllers with ZW or zigbee, than is does with isy insteon? Or can it not specify brightness of externally created "scenes" of any protocol? Thanks and sorry to dive deeper into the weeds of this topic's question.

Hi Quick question: Are scenes dimmable or can you specify the brightness level of scenes on the Amazon or Google assistant integrations Thanks

I just connected my 1st zigbee test device. Its a "Third Reality" "Smart Plug GEN2" www.3reality.com, bought on aamazon for about $10 (4pack for $38) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BPY5D1KC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s04?ie=UTF8&psc=1 THIRDREALITY ZigBee Smart Plug 4 Pack with Real-time Energy Monitoring,15A Outlet, Zigbee Repeater,ETL Certified,ZigBee Hub Required,Work with Home Assistant,Compatible Echo Devices and SmartThings It was very quickly found/added to eisy. It has a single device field listed and functioning as an on/off switch. It is supposed to report poser/energy use, but does not on eisy. I have not tried it elsewhere. Thanks

Thank you Michel. That's great to know. 2 quick follow-ups, if I may: In addition to the benifit of writing to zwave device, does isy-> zwave also send a single Scene/"Association" command, like Insteon, or are commands sent to each zwave device in an association, e.g turn on scene at 60%? Is isy(eisy) unique in this, or do some other hubs/controllers do this too (just asking) Thanks for taking such good care of us all!

HI This may be an old thread, but it is the best discussion of: How isy vs HA handle scenes That isy does and HA does not natively write to devices resulting in: a. eg for a 10 device scene, a single "turn on scene" command, vs 10 separate per device commands AND b. enabeling the scene to function from a controlling e.g. switch, even if the plm/hub is off line. That even though this isy behavior (natively writing to devices) is far superior than how HA handles Insteon scenes, there are issues integrating the isy devices with HA...and some fairly complicated workarounds. Because of this I reactivated this thread so anyone else considering isy/HA for insteon would benifit from this knowledge. However, I mistakenly thought by posting these points for the developer of HA to see we might get some current thinking from him. Instead he blocked the question (which admittedly was not posted where it should have been, but was intended to get his eyeballs. In any event, I do have these above related questions and would welcome any insights: Thanks!

Sorry for another follow-up post.. My post to the HA Github discussion was closed by ../Frenck without addressing the question I therefore made a similar post in the general forum here https://community.home-assistant.io/t/scenes-groups-associations-store-natively-in-device/592910?u=ccclapp if anyone cares

Im adding a 2nd post here on topic: 1. As stated in this thread, isy/IoX writes scene and other data natively to Insteon devices. Also stated, that Zigbee Groups and Z-Wave Associations can be similarly natively written to devices. My question is: Does ISY/eisy do this with those protocols, or only with Insteon. 2. And: if written natively (by ISY or otherwise) does that help even the playing field between insteon/z-waye/zigbee for lighting (scenes etc)? (not meaning to open a big discussion about pros/cons of each here) Thanks

Hi This is a great discussion on a complicated topic without a great resolution. Assuming the info in this thread is still valid I created a new Discussion summarizing this in the HA Architecture github, here.. https://github.com/home-assistant/architecture/discussions/946 Since that is not really a general discussion forum, I recommend we wait to see how HA developers etc reply. Im posting here so you can also be informed if they do. As to context: I've been a long-term ISY-only user. I have many many lights (switches) with many scenes. I've just completed a significant home renovation, so have had isy offline for about a year and am now researching what direction to go in moving forward. It seems for lighting Insteon/ISY may be best. But for the overall front-end and much broader device control HA will likely be my primary front end. Ive similarly been trying to evaluate Insteon vs Z-wave vs Zigbee for lighting and other purposes (energy monitoring, sensors etc) and may stay Insteon for ligating and different for the rest. Here again we get to the question of what native controller/hub for each protocol: ISY, HA, Other and then which to link through which....BUT all of this will likely be a separate thread (as its somewhat off-topic here), here and at HA... ...however, one quick more related question: Am I correct there is decent ISY integration in HA, but not an equally good integration to being all HA devices into ISY/eisy if one is considering isy as the primary front end? Thanks again for the great info in the discussion above. I wish there was a good and simple answer

Hi , apologize in advance if this is an obvious question I should know the answer to... but I don't I just received my eisy and the z matter stick (I was previously on an ISY). I had assumed they're already was zigbee broad support as I thought that's what that stick was for. am I mistaken and only just now we starting to get zigby support? a simple clarification would be helpful Thanks

Guys: It shouldn't be this difficult! Why cant we simply enter the ISY IP address in our browsers and log into the device interface, as we can with EVERY other network device. The comment was made above that these problems are rare. I don't think that's correct. More likely people are accustomed to a certain amount of head-banging to get set up or re-set up as this is a DYI device and users. We could start a poll on that question

HI All of this is the point I was trying to make in this thread (which has now been closed by UD)... Eventually we all solve the problems, but often after hours of knocking our heads against the wall. I really don't understand why UD hasn't provided a non-Java and otherwise standard and less problem-prone application for ISY. Thanks to those who replies with assistance on that thread. I cant reply there as it is been closed.

Thahkns, but as described I used that and it doesnt find the ISY. I enter the IP and it says invalid address. I have no doubt its some simple issue, but after 2 hours of following the wiki, the cookbook, the forums etc still not in the admin UI. Just saying, the tools dont work as described and/or the documentation is lacking.

I am returning to my ISY 994 after not using it for a while and the ISY Finder / admin.jnlp etc continue to drive me CRAZY!!! I installed 32 snf 64 bit versions of java Cleared the cache Launched ISY finder, which as always does not find my local isy which is on my current/correct subnet Launch admin.jnlp and get an error message as usual "Cannot launch Application" Use http://isy which yields site cannot be reached I browse to the ISY url and enter via HTTP and sign in. Then click admin and het the stupid "Keep this window Open" All of this is in conjunction with following the wiki and searching the forums for current solutions. WHY AFTER SO MANY YEARS CANT UD USE A STRAIGHT FORWARD PC APP TO ACCESS THE ISY, OR USE A NOTMAL DEFAULT HTTP / HTTPS INTERFSCE TO ACCESS THE ADMIN UI? I REMEMBER DOING THIS MANY MANY TIMES OVER THE YEARS AND FINALLY DOING SOME CONVOLUTED THING TO SOLVE THE ISSUE AFTER A FEW HOURS OF EFFOFT AND AM NOT FINALLY COMPLAINING LOUDLY. UD Please reply and PLEASE fix this for all other users.

Hi guys thanks for the posts . I'm traveling this week on business and can be in touch next week . The project is going through a systems redesign for the larger scope which will then inform what and how should integrate with ISY or other monitoring/control systems.

I dont mind shifting to client-roll with a project leader (in many ways a welcome thought), but maybe that's not quite what you meant. Just looking for the right fit, narrow or broad. Enjoy the weekend, Thanks

I added to my description above as you were typing, crossed in forum air PS: Not a bad suggestion as a possible component

HI Sure, in a perfect world, nearby (Boston) would be a plus, but I'm not expecting that. I'm moderately competent ISY user and this is not mission-critical stuff (in the context that I am introducing some systems and monitoring that don't currently exist). If it all fails, I where I'm where I'be been for 25 years, which means fine. I'd just be better with the enhancement. Having said that, the real answer is, if it breaks I will fix/replace or seek assistance here or elsewhere. I realize my description is sparse as I was looking for interest and then would get into more details depending on the interested person. The point being, truly the assignment will be limited by the ability (and time) of the interest person and not by limitations of the project, including budget. We can keep it fairly simple and limited, or not. Here's a bit more context, without turning this post into a novel... I am changing/adding some systems to a few buildings including IP cameras, access monitoring, monitoring of some physical conditions e.g. moisture temp etc. I may add more (with the right person). Some of this is basic ISY stuff. Some would be enhanced from deeper integration of systems: sensors-to-cameras / timing of multiple-system events to each other / event data collection into useful usable info / communication between systems / which handles what notifications / UI / cross monitoring for failures in system(s). Some questions will include: Wired/wireless, what and when Elk, relay expansion boards, or http Polyglot and RPI, or not Which system leads/follows Which system interface site team uses for monitoring and how is non-system data incorporated. Note: I have installers, consultants for traditional components, i.e. cameras, network, etc. I am missing the more open-thinking ISY-type of brain/skill The above does not add much specificity, because the direction we take will change based on the contribution of the person I find. As stated it can just be adding some ISY stuff into the mix, or it could be a broader blank-paper conceptualization. Likely somewhere between. Hope this helps a little Thanks

Sure, I completely understand where you're coming from and certainly not everyone with the skills wants to "commercialize" them with ISY. I'm just surprised No One does. It will be an interesting assignment for the right person. Have a great Labor Day weekend!!

It is interesting there has been no replies to this inquiry. I wonder if that means few are using it for more than DYI home use AND other than demand response, no one sees it as having commercial application. I had expected some of the experienced users might be looking for a way to be paid for their ISY-time. I, for one, believe ISY DOES have real-world use outside one's own home. Just an observation.