mwester

Well, yes. In general. There are a lot of other considerations for a delay this long (many of which we can safely skip over when dealing with short delays) which make this more complex than the usual "wait" operations. So, in no particular order, here's a list of questions that might impact the answer: Is the goal just to turn the button itself off, or is it do stop operation of the programs that the button started as well? What is the impact (in terms of cost, inconvenience, possible property damage, etc) if the button is NOT turned off? Same, but if the button is turned off early? What's the acceptable delta for the delay (i.e. must it be plus or minus one day, one hour, one minute, or one second)? What bad things happen if the delta is outside the acceptable range? What external factors might affect the 10 day delay (e.g. power failure to the building, human operating a power switch elsewhere, etc)? What should be the correct behavior in the face of the various external factors (e.g. should the timer be restarted when the ISY reboots after a power failure, or should the timer be reset on the assumption that the button is also off and all programs are reset, or does some other action need to happen to alert someone that a "short cycle" may have happened)? This may sound excessive, but as an example of why this is important, I have a timer for my ice-melting cables on the roof, and a set of timers that monitor my septic lift pump. The former is a really simple timer program 'cause the downside is trivial -- the latter, however, has some very real consequences if it goes wrong, so that is actually a set of programs (and a bunch of relays and other hardware to act as a final backstop if the logic or ISY or Insteon fails)...

Re: use of the Rasberry Pi for Industrial Control: https://info.opto22.com/raspberry-pi-io Of course, you pay for it -- at $120 list price for JUST the power supply, it had better be good! (I've got a few of the opto 22 mounting racks, and a whole bunch of the opt 22 I/O modules, so I'll be buying the Raspberry Pi adapter ("Carrier" they call it)... but I think I'll use one of my existing power supplies, thank you! )

I'd suggest you get a spare on-hand, my experience is that once they start to misbehave, even if you can get them back working, they're on the way to failing so it's just a matter of time. That said, there is one possibility that's worth trying -- if you can pull out all the bulbs (I'm assuming that it's controlling lighting, right?) that it controls directly (i.e. with the "A" button), then try a factory reset. I've had a couple of cases now where LED bulbs or other funky loads were able to generate enough electrical "racket" that the device just goes berserk. It's a long shot, but should be pretty easy to try. Adding/removing the device from the ISY won't really help. What you want to do is follow the procedure to factory reset the device, then on the ISY, do a "restore" of just that device. If that won't work, then try that again with the bulbs (load) disconnected or removed, as suggested above -- and if it still won't work, then chances are it's a goner.

You want to expose the scene (which contains both the switch and the light) to the Echo rather than exposing just an individual device.

Given all the troubles folks seem to have with thermostats and Insteon/Z-Wave, I have to suggest that the following may be a more reliable way to resolve your problem! https://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-Thermostat-Guard-CG511A/202024249 Originally, I thought I wanted an HA-enabled thermostat as well -- based on the unending litany of troubles folks keep reporting, I am so, so very glad I never did that. I know that may not be what you wanted to hear, though.

The Insteon powerline/RF portion of the protocol is unaware of the link database -- so it will make no difference if the hub is "discovered" or not. Any Insteon device will "relay" for any other, even if that other device is linked to nothing at all.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Developers:API:REST_Interface

Just use a mildly-abrasive kitchen cleaner and the markings will come right off. I use "Softscrub" and a washcloth. Easy.

No, Brian was stating that you may not need a second PLM if you use only Z-Wave devices in the other home -- in either case you will need an ISY at each location.

? ? And umpteen times I've heard of the demise of the horse-and-buggy. Yet, in the meantime, I've seen many automobile companies go out of business. That's not an indictment of the automobile, just the resilience of the horse-and-buggy. (Disclaimer, lest someone think I'm being disrespectful to those communities who choose to eschew modern technology -- I have a lot of respect for those folks, especially the ones who live up in this latitude near me -- it's a tough way to live, to still plow the fields with horses, drive to the markets with horses and wagons, and somehow manage to run a sustainable farm without electricity, tractors, cars, etc.) By the way, I mentioned somewhere on this forum that I wouldn't be buying any more Insteon devices, I think that was a year or so ago. Turns out I lied. I just got Yet Another FilterLinc today -- bringing to total number of FilterLincs littering my walls up to be about the same as the number of actual functioning Insteon devices... the point being that Insteon's core technology (power-line signaling) is dying in the age of switching power supplies and LED lighting. The days of the perfect sine wave are gone, just like the days where we expected to see hitching posts in front of the general store for our horses. You can still love your horses. And nobody says you should get rid of them. But do recognize that the buggy manufacturers who didn't diversify to make automobile bodies and parts died out at some point, and so it will be with Insteon/SmartHome.

Ok - thanks for the clarification! A sensor on the outside of the flue won't have to deal with the flue gas. I had a hot water tank that looked a lot like yours, but the flue made a 90-degree bend a foot over the tank to head to the chimney -- someone decided it would be nice to hang some of the kid's artwork from it. We all learned that the flue itself is extremely hot... so the caution on excessive heat remains. A mitigation might be to get a galvanized metal "L" bracket from the hardware store, and mount the sensor a few inches away from the flue -- the bracket will conduct heat, but hopefully less of it will get to the sensor. You'll have more lag in reporting the failure, but it might prevent the internals of the sensor from melting. Regarding the pilot light failure -- I'm suspecting back-draft based on what you've mentioned... that was a nightmare for me in early fall every year, to the point where I had to crack one of the basement windows open a bit just to change the airflow enough to keep the pilot lit and the unit drafting up the flue correctly. We finally replaced the unit with one that had a blower to assist the venting (high-efficiency too).

(Caveat: I've spent my career closely associated with the "support" side of engineering, so it may be that I'm trained to be overly-concerned about safety and failure modes.) I would NEVER EVER place ANYTHING in the flue of a gas-fired burner. Never. First, there's the safety part of this -- how can you be SURE that EVERY part (down to the epoxy used in the assembly) that you put into that flue is REALLY fire-proof? Then, there's the reliability part of this -- the flue gases are primarily super-hot steam (think rust), but there's also a fair amount of corrosive (acidic) compounds in there as well. The point being that anything placed in the flue needs to be designed specifically to handle that harsh environment -- and what I mean by that is not just reliability, but consider the failure modes as well (the mounting brackets fail, and part of the sensor falls down the flue -- where does it land, and if it lands in the burner, how might it alter/affect the burner, and could that cause fire, or other reliability issues?) The root problem here is the answer the question "Is the pilot light lit?" -- and that question must be answered by most appliances that have pilot lights, lest they leak fuel (natural gas, propane, heating oil) into the burner with no ignition possible. The former two of those are usually handled by thermocouples in the pilot light -- that would be one avenue to pursue. The latter is more interesting -- many oil-burning furnaces use an optical sensor that switches 24VAC (or even 120V) in order to ensure that the blower/pump that pumps the diesel fuel (heating oil is just un-taxed diesel!) doesn't operate unless the pilot is lit. Here's some info on those units (I used to have one of these -- it was a horrifying machine, but astonishing in its reliability... none-the-less, I sleep better now without a gigantic jet-engine burner along with 275 gallons of diesel fuel in my basement!): https://inspectapedia.com/heat/Cad_Cell_Relay_Reset_Button.php I'd pursue the CAD cell and a matching relay/controller, connected to an Insteon IOLinc route -- safer.

Very nicely done! This is an excellent example of how to do it right -- your wiring and layout is professional, and you've clearly thought through the failure modes (something not often done by most hobbyists).

I too see smoke and sadness in your future. Gas-discharge arresters are commonly used by HAM radio operators to protect in such a situation (it's not uncommon for an antenna tower to be hundreds of feet from the actual radio, and it's common for the cabling to include not only RF coaxial cables, but also control cables for antenna rotators, etc.) It's worth noting, though, that lightening protection used in these situations is intended to protect life and limb, and prevent fires -- it does NOT necessarily protect your PLMs! (More specifically, a common gas-discharge arrester trips at ~100V, and your PLM's serial chips will likely fry at 24 - 50V). I use a gas-discharge unit for ethernet on either end of my cat-5 run from the house to the workshop -- but I also use an old scrap 100MBit "sacrificial" ethernet switch at each end to protect the more expensive gigabit switches in each building. I can replace those 100Mbit units for $10 on eBay... Diode-clamping can be used in addition to the arrester -- but frankly, by the time you add all that in, your costs are pretty high. If this was just a detached garage located a few feet from the house, no problem -- but 600' is a long way, and at that distance ground != ground any more. So - minimum suggestion is to use a gigabit-rated ethernet lightening arrester on each end of that 600' run, and be prepared to replace the PLMs periodically.

Let me add to the excellent (and important) advice given by apostolakisl -- since your barn is on a separate panel, it also has it's own ground line, and therefore has it's own idea of what "ground" level, in electrical terms, means. What I'm trying to say is that you MUST ensure that the cable you run to that barn has NO possibility of contacting anything in that barn, especially if it can do so through a human being or an animal. The concept is called "stray voltage" on farms [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stray_voltage], and is the cause of huge economic losses [https://www.calt.iastate.edu/article/stray-voltage-and-dairy-farms-can-lead-large-damage-awards] -- in trivial situations it causes problems such as distress in animals (due to mild electrical shocks whenever they touch even the walls or structures in the barn, and in more significant situations, it causes death or injury to humans or animals. Best thing to do -- bring that "extension cord" (I hate that term -- it conjures up images of some foolish person running 600 feet of Home Depot orange extension cords across their lawn, or in a trench... gah!) -- anyway, bring that cord end up out of the trench 20 feet or so away from the barn in question inside a heavy, large PVC (not metal) conduit. That conduit length should terminate in a large PVC electrical box (available at any home store), and do the wiring to your RF-capable device inside that box. Make the assumption that the so-called "ground wire" will be just as "hot" as the black and white wires, and let NO metal conductors escape that PVC box! As for the fiber -- optical fiber doesn't conduct electricity, nor does it pick up voltage surges from lightening strikes, so feel free to run that between the buildings and terminate it inside each building without any special considerations. Fiber is a *wonderful* thing that way!

FWIW, I'm also still waiting for an email to tell me what they'll be doing for me -- as this lingers, I'm more and more inclined to stop reporting my weather station to Wunderground, and switch to something else -- there are other, more open, platforms out there (although they currently lack the density and coverage with regard to personal weather stations).

Not sure what part is confusing you, but I'm guessing it's the two hot (line) wires? If so, that's just a common way to continue the hot wire on to other outlets or switches in the room (or nearby rooms). If it's actually got two separate wires under one screw, then I'd suspect that outlet wasn't put in by a real electrician... So, you get the chance to not only put in an Insteon switch, but to correct a sloppy bit of wiring as well! (Note that it's just fine if it's one wire that enters the box, goes under that screw, and continues on out of the box -- that's a lot of extra work for an electrician (it's a PITA to strip wire in the middle of a length and get it under the screw), but meets code AFAIK). The ground wire and the load wire are obvious, I expect -- the white (neutral) on the Insteon switchlinc connects to the bundle of white wires in the box, and the two line wires need to be connected together along with the black line wire from the Insteon switchlinc.

Er, not sure if your municipality has different rules, but in Chicago (the last place I had a water meter), the municipality owned the plumbing up to the meter itself, and it wasn't legal for me to tamper with that in any way (including adding an additional valve). Of course, on the other side of the meter, I could do whatever I wanted...

And keep in mind that with door locks you often need a repeater VERY close to the door itself. Consider that the location and environment for z-wave door locks is very harsh -- first, the door lock itself, in order to be secure, needs to be made of fairly thick metal -- that'll block a lot of the RF signal. Then, the door itself is often metal, or has a thick metal skin on one side. Usually around the door one will find masonry, under the door is often concrete, and the lintel is often a metal angle iron to hold the weight. The optimum location for a repeater will vary, but it's best to have one that is in front of the door, rather than plugged into an outlet on the wall adjacent to the door (the RF signal will have less trouble going through or down a hallway than going through a dense wall to get to the lock). Finally, the z-wave board in the ISY does not communicate well. I know that some disagree (including the UDI folks), but many of us have observed that a secure repeater has better coverage than does the ISY in the same exact physical spot. I made sure to have a secure always-on device in the same room as the ISY to serve as a repeater (I used the external antenna before, but the new ISY z-wave dongle doesn't support that, so I now need another repeater - bummer... but still cheaper than all the useless Insteon filterLincs I need to keep my insteon devices working!)

If everything else is working, it's doubtful that the PLM has failed (yet). The date code says it was manufactured in the 28th week of 2017 -- so it's got a bit more to go in it's anticipated 24 month lifespan. One might theorize that the PLM's RF circuitry failed, but even so if one of your other working devices is dual-band, then the Insteon protocol should have that working device relay to/from the wireless-only motion-sensors -- so, while it's possible that the PLM is the issue, replacing it is not the first place I'd look to solve the issue. Try restoring the PLM to put the link table back -- see if that makes a difference. It's possible that an electrical surge or such corrupted the in-memory link table in the PLM; reloading that from the master copy that the ISY has will resolve that. Another possibility: given that the motion sensors are RF devices, operating in the same frequency band as cordless phones, baby monitors, wireless intercoms, etc, I'd take a look about to see if there's anything nearby (where nearby might be a neighbor's place -- awkward, but RF doesn't respect fences or property lines!). Of course, that said, a spare PLM isn't a bad thing to have on-hand. I've got three of them, plus a USB version -- they're troublesome buggers and SmartHome doesn't seem to be doing the right things to fix the problems with them.

Dunno... So are the other non-motion-sensor devices working well? What's the date code (4-digit number) on your PLM?

So are the other non-motion-sensor devices working well? What's the date code (4-digit number) on your PLM?

Voltage is analogous to water pressure, while current is analogous to water flow. So just like your sprinkler requires the water pressure to be in a certain range, your electrical device requires voltage to be in a certain range. And with the right water pressure, your sprinkler is only going to sprinkle a certain number of gallons/hour (flow), regardless of how much flow your water main (or well pump) might actually be able to deliver. The same is true of your device: when fed with electrons at the right voltage, it will only consume a flow of current (100mA in your case), regardless of how much current your transformer/wall-wart is capable of delivering. Or, short answer: you can use a transformer/wall-wart with a higher current rating with no problems at all.

Because somebody has to say it... this thread seems to have passed the point of easy identification of a common wiring scenario, and is now in the area of experimentation and "try it and see"... Line voltage is dangerous -- not only can you injure yourself, but a wiring mistake may result in a fire hazard. Also know that many insurance companies will not cover damage done if the wiring is not performed by or alternately inspected by a licensed electrician. With that caveat, carry on.

Alas, my phone is not attached to my body in any convenient location -- it's usually in a pocket, and sometimes is over in the other room on the charger. And then, of course, there are all the other phones, over which I have no control to install applications, nor do I wish to grant them access to my home automation. Bottom line: a phone is just a remote control, and while there's some "novelty" factor in using a phone to turn something on or off, that wears off quickly. A wall switch -- old-fashioned paddle or toggle or something like this topic's smart-switch is often the best and most efficient way to offer control for something. There's a fork in the HA road -- in THAT direction are all those who feel strongly that remote control using phones and smart watches is HA, in the OTHER direction are those who have different ideas. It really is that polarized... and as you can probably tell, I believe strongly that a remote control, even if it's a cell phone, is not really what HA is all about. JMO, that and $5 will get you a mocha-latta-frappe-wappa-wappa-wing-ding at your local over-priced coffee shop! ?