oberkc

I hope, for jwagner010' sake, you are correct. I can tell you that, were each of these conditions in a separate program, they would both evaluate as true. Given this, I expect that both conditions in a single program would, therefore, be true. I have not, however, run an experiment to confirm. So your experience suggests that both conditions are not evaluated simultaneously. Do you suppose order of the conditions matters?

The sensor reports ON-OFF-ON, or the KPL? I find it hard to believe that the sensor, itself, reports that status. The behavior sounds as if you have your KPL in a non-toggle mode, where the KPL will flash a couple of times. How do you know that the sensor reports ON-OFF-ON? Do you, sometimes, have to press the KPL more than once in order to activate the door? In momentary A mode, it will responde to EITHER (but not both) ON or OFF commands. It sounds as if you have yours configured to respond to OFF. This would explain why the door would not respond to your KPL when configured in non-toggle ON mode. Does this sound plausible? This could depend on your program for sending text notifications. Is this program triggered off sensor status or KPL status, or something else? Have you actually experienced reciept of three text messages? This tends to suggest that your "momentary A" setting will respond only to OFF commands. I noted that LeeG suggested momentary B mode, but you chose different. Is there any particular reason you chose momentary A? I have found that the garage door case is a relatively complicated setup, where every setting and installation is related to the other, and attention to details matters. Location of sensor is non-trivial. It matters whether sensor is ON or OFF when door is closed. Momentary mode of the relay is related to mode of the KPL and of the sensor status relationship to door. My recommendation for garage doors matches the wiki: a) locate the sensor such that is is closed when the door is FULLY closed. Check the LED indicator of the IOLinc to be sure. wire the sensor such that it is ON when the door is open (rather, not closed) and off when fully closed. c) configure your relay to respond to ON commands, and: d) configure your KPL to be non-toggle ON e) create a scene with KPL as controller and relay as responder f) create a scene with sensor as controller and KPL as responder. If you follow these steps, pressing your KPL will cause the door to open or close. The KPL will flash a few times, but remain lit if the door is open or turn off if closed. Each of these steps is related to others. If you fail to perform any one step correctly, the door/KPL will not work properly. If you have questions about any of those steps, let us know.

I think this is where the confusion lies. In fact, the light is ON when the program triggers for evaluation, because turning the light on is the action triggering the evaluation. I believe this to be the root of your program problem in this example. Of course, communication problems could also be in play, here, as suggested by LeeG. To use an example in an attempt to explain, how would you expect the following program to react (true or false?) when toggling the switch from off-to-on? if status downstairs-kitchen is on then ... else ... I believe you will find that it evalates TRUE! Given this, how would you expect this program to evaluate when toggling the switch from off-to-on? if status downstairs-kitchen is on and control downstairs-kitchen is switced on then ... else ... I believe you will find that this evaluates TRUE, as well.

I would not be so certain. I attempted to offer an explanation in an earlier (if lengthy) post. Perhaps rereading this would help. In my mind, this program will trigger true going from off-to-on, assuming the variable is zero. From off-to-on, both control and status conditions would evaluate as true. If the variable is zero, then all three conditions are true, thus the entire program would be true.

( Status 'Downstairs - Kitchen' is 100% And Control 'Downstairs - Kitchen' is switched On ) And $SB_DN_Kitchen_OnOff is 0 Of those three conditions, which do you believe should prevent the execution of the THEN statement? (I am a little unclear about what causes the variable to change value.) BTW, the parentheses are no longer needed.

That was one of my original concerns. I wonder if breaking it down further may help both of us with understanding this. Consider this simple program: if status downstairs kitchen is on then .. else ... When the downstairs kitchen is turned on from off, this program will trigger and evaluate true, correct? Let's consider a second simple program as follows: if control downstairs kitchen is switched on then ... else ... This program would ALSO evaluate as true when the kitchen is turned on from off, correct? What happens when one combines these two conditions into a single program: if status downstairs kitchen is on and control downstairs kitchen is switched on then ... else ... Would this program also not evaluate as true (both conditions are true) when the downstairs kitchen is switched from off to on? Given this, is it easier to see how the "music - kitchen Down - On" program might evaluate as true?

to double check, I was looking at my admin console. I am trying to find "group devices". In retrospect, I don't see it and want to be sure we are talking about the same thing. Can you be more specific where you see this "group devices" in the admin console?

While I did not intend to offend, part of the reason I stated this was because extra lines that, after your follow-on evaluation, you admit that were unnecessary. They just struck me as extra lines without much functional purpose (which was true). Perhaps I should have been more tactful, but this still strikes me as overcomplicated. I missed that part in the original post. So, you know that these programs once worked, but now do not. I do not believe that programs, in general, quit working. I would focus on other possible explanations for why a program once worked but would stop. OK. I cannot help but wonder how you want these programs to react when the kitchen light is <99% but >1%. But, since the programs worked as you wanted at one point, I would focus more on the change and what affect it had on your programs. I would focus on whether your ISY is seeing correct status from the new devices, or even from the old devices. As a diagnostic tool, I would try a couple of things. I would temporarily disable all but one of the programs and determine if each is consistently reacting as you believe it should. If not, I would observe the input conditions (kitchen light, mostly) and see if the ISY is correctly seeing the status. If not, find out why. Once you have confirmed each program is working again, try re-enabling the remaining programs, one at a time. Are they still working? If not, I wonder if having multiple programs triggered from the same device (kitchen light) is causing some sort of interaction between them.

I must admit that I am not feeling overly ambitious about spending the time it would take me (I am sometimes a little slow) to try to sort through all this, but one thing that jumps out at me is that, within a given program, you have a lot of conditions based upon a single device (kitchen - downstairs). I also subscribe to the theory that computers are not generally susceptible to random occurrences. More likely, there is a program that is incorrect. I offer a couple of thoughts on the first program condition: Status 'Downstairs - Kitchen' is Off <---what is the purpose of this, given the next condition? And Status 'Downstairs - Kitchen' < 1% <---what is the purpose of this one? What about using "NOT ON"? And ( Control 'Downstairs - Kitchen' is switched Off Or Control 'Downstairs - Kitchen' is switched Fast Off ) ) Or ( Status 'Downstairs - Kitchen' is 100% And Status 'Downstairs - Kitchen' > 99% <--what is this purpose, given the condition above And Control 'Downstairs - Kitchen' is switched On ) Or Control 'Downstairs - Kitchen' is switched Fast On And $SB_DN_Kitchen_OnOff is 0 My gut reaction is that you have created a bit of an overly complicated mess. I also wonder, given your original requirements, whether your kitchen light is on a dimmer or relay. I am also a little suspicious that this condition, overall, is working in ways you are not expecting. Let's suppose that the kitchen light is at 50% and you turn it off. The status would change, forcing an evaluation of the first two conditions. You have also received a CONTROL OFF from that switch. I expect this program to evaluate TRUE. Is this what you want? I would start from scratch. My suspicion is that your set of conditions might be best met with an integer (non triggering) variable , where: variable = 1 means kitchen light is on variable - 0 means kitchen light is off Perhaps create a single program (kitchen assumed relay, ON/OFF only): if status downstairs kitchen is not off then set variable = 1 else set variable = 0 I would re-write the condition of the first program: if variable = 0 and ( control downstairs kitchen light is off or control downstairs kitchen light is fast off ) or variable = 1 and ( control downstairs kitchen light is switched on or control downstairs kitchen light is switched fast on ) then .... else ... Maybe a few of these thought can help stir the thought processes.

My understanding is the same as vyrolan...the folders in which one can organize devices is purely cosmetic. The reference you often see to "group" commands is used by those who get a bit deeper into the insteon signals. When those folks use "group", the rest of us should be thinking "scene". Part of the need to differentiate such terms is because the ISY introduces a command that is not available to those without a controller: a direct command. The terminology can sometimes cause confusion. But, I don't believe the organizational folders has any relationship to group commands. Be sure, however, that your "groups" are not, in fact, "scenes". Once created, the only way to identify the difference is the little icon. One looks like a file folder. The other looks like something else (circle around three smaller circles).

I vaguely recall a while back when these types of requests were posted in the "product request" forums. Equally vague are my memories where I thought the response was that such a feature was "on the list". If mfranzel does not clarify further, let me add my input... a) first (or second...seventh) day of the month first (or second/third/fourth) wednesday (or thursday or monday) of the month. c) specific date every year If one wanted to get fancy, how about a specific day each year relative to fall and spring equinox, and summer/winter solstace (probably asking too much, huh?) or to be able to define holidays. I suspect that, with these variables as potential input conditions, we could create a combination of conditions to meet darn near any need.

Without trying to define your requirements for you, or to assume your needs are more nuanced than indicated, I offer the following concepts as ideas from which you can elaborate and ponder further. Specific details would depend on what scenes you have already, and which devices you want to go off configure your KPL button as "non-toggle off" create a program such as: if control KPL button is turned off then turn off all applicable scenes turn off any other devices that were not included in the scenes turn on any applicable scenes turn on additional device that were not included in the scenes else nothing Are you currently doing this with scenes only, or are programs involved?

Yes, there is some flexibility, I recall. Certain days of the week are possible. In the program setting, I think there is a check box: daily. If unchecked, it will give a daily selection. I believe a specific date is also possible. I do not believe one can choose a certain month or day of the month or day of the year, however.

I don't know if this is wrong or right, but it is how I do it. If you want to check whether one, or more, lights within a set of light is on, then : if light 1 is on or light 2 is on or light 3 is on ... Seems like proper logic to me. Yes, it can be a bit tedious. Unfortunately, I do not believe there is anything in the insteon construct which is equivalent to "any of the lights in this scene are on". Therefore, one has to create this with programs and logic. Perhaps it would be more useful to post the one that does NOT work. It is often helpful, also, to further eleaborate on "won't work". Often times, there are unspoken-but-not-obvious expectations about how programs are supposed to behave. Computers have the nasty habits of doing EXACTLY what we tell them (nothing more, nothing less), rather than what we want. For the KPL buttons to go off, you would have to tell them to go off. How did you set up your "all lights" button to cause the office lights and hallway lights to go off? Is this button controller of a scene with the affected lights? Are you using a program? Did you include the KPL buttons in that scene or program?

I understand that all -994 will have a slot where one can add the Z-wave module, when available.

I understand that, to save power, battery-operated devices do no listen for commands and do not respond to scene commands from other linked devices. A remotelink cannot 'reflect' the status of another device. I expect what you desire to achieve is doable with a program, but you may have to depend on factors other than remotelinc status to get it done.

I suspect a factory reset will keep whatever version of software currently residing on the ISY.

I have never used Z-wave, but my impression was that compatibility of one device with another could sometimes vary by manufacturer. To see the wiki state support for "appliance modules" "thermostats", etc...flies counter to my perception that support would need to be more specific. If the Z-wave radio in the ISY is compatible with all thermostats, all slage locksets, all appliance modules, and all lamp dimmers, this would be HUGE.

Xathros, Up until now, I thought we were told that support for Z-wave devices would be limited (at least initially). It appeared to me that early emphasis was on locksets. Is it your perception so far that the Z-wave capability of the ISY is universally compatible with all (or most) z-wave devices, or only certain ones?

The z-wave module for the -994 is barely out (or perhaps not even yet) in trial versions. I doubt there are many who have been down this path.

Configuration of which device? PLM? ISY? I have insteon devices that go back about 5 years and newest less than a couple of months. Never have I noticed an issue with any device being unable to be used in my system. All appears to continue to communicate. Perhaps if there was a really old PLM that did not support that v2 insteon protocol, one could have a problem. Otherwise, my personal practice is to not worry about such things.

I do what bsobel does, with the same results. I would do this with a scene, rather than a program. Add all the devices that fall into the set of "all" (those that you want to go off when you press one of the two buttons) as responders. In addition, add the two "ALL OFF" buttons to the scene, as controllers. Configure the buttons to be in non-toggle off mode. From then on, each time you press one of the two buttons, everything will turn off.

If I may make another observation, you may also benefit from a scene. If you were to create a scene (giving the name of you choice) that includes the family room and kitchen lights, as responders, with 55% on levels each, then your program could be even more simplified. It might even be more responsive. if time if from sunset + 45min for 2 hours then set scene on else set scene off

The major decision you need to make is whether you want your remotelinc in 4-scene or 8-scene mode. In four scene mode, buton C and D are the ON and OFF buttons for the same scene. In eight scene mode, button C and D control different scenes, toggling between ON and OFF. Is this your current "upstairs on" scene? Responding to button C? I will assume this is the case. Is this your "upstairs off" scene? Responding to button D? I will assume this is the case. Unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with using the ISY with a thermostat. What do you observe when you turn the thermostat ON versus OFF? Are there adjustable ON settings (50%, for example) is it just ON and OFF? If you are willing to configure your remotelinc into "8-button, non-toggle (always on)" mode, the best solution in my mind is to use scenes to control what you want, and make the respective remotelinc button controller of your two scenes scene. Of course, it is possible that your intended use for the other buttons makes this configuration unworkable. If you must leave your remotelinc in 4-button mode (C=on, D=off), the I would approach this problem with two programs? The first program, in pseudo code: if control buttonc-d is turned on then set "upstairs on" to on else Second program if control buttonc-d is turned off then set "upstairs off" to on else You could also try this with a single program such as if status buttonc-d is on then set "upstairs on" to on else set "upstairs off" to on This second approach may work, but I hesitate to predict, being concerned with what happens if the button is neither fully on, or fully off. Try it, however. It is not overly complicated. Beware, too, that I understand pressing and holding keypad buttons sends not an ON or OFF command, but a BRIGHT or DIM command. These programs may not respond to this. Also, a FAST ON/OFF is also possible, to which these programs may not respond.

OK. This tends to suggest that the ISY is seeing the command from the remotelinc. I misunderstood your original statement. No problem. This tends to suggest a potential problem with your programs. OK. This does not sound good to me. When your press the remotelinc ON button, program one will run the "then" path (turn "upstairs on" fast on) and program 2 will run the "else" path (turn "upstairs off" fast off). If you have common devices in both scenes, it is hard to predict which statement will win out. Perhaps the better approach here is to describe what it is you are trying to do, and what response to various button presses you are trying to generate. What do you want to happen in response to an ON command? To an OFF? Good. For now.