madcodger

Well, lilyoyo1, every manufacturer benefits from a fanbase so loyal that the fan thinks they can do no wrong. I feel confident your loyalty is appreciated. On the other hand, improvement generally happens when enough people say, “Hey, I think there might (should be?) a better way.” I don’t think the current system is ideal, or even terribly reliable, and have noted that. So, we differ. I sold the property with an Elk, so testing personally is not possible at the moment (but I am all but certain you are basically wrong). And the horrible, arduous impact on these systems that you describe is not likely to be as horrible and arduous as you make it seem, which is why systems improve. I just think having a system automatically detect that a wired, powered sensor has disappeared is not unreasonable as an expectation. I sure as heck get enough “cannot communicate” notices about wireless sensors that are, in fact, operating normally. So maybe some improvement in these areas is both possible, and needed. Sadly, these forums are frequented primarily by the uber-loyal fan, which is why many of us, who like the system but see room for improvement, come here less often. We can’t call out problems without being shouted down. Have a nice day.

Well, with respect to your opinions, I disagree. If two-way communication between a sensor and a controller, is possible - and it is, for a sensor that is running on AC power - the controller can (and, I maintain, should) check periodically to see if the sensor is still alive and monitoring. If the controller "pings" and gets no response, then the controller should report that. This is NOT like someone removing a car battery, as the battery is the power source for the car. I'm not an expert in sensors or security, but I believe an alarm system reports the loss of a wireless sensor, and does so promptly. Perhaps this is the reason I never noticed this type of issue in the past, as I've always used my Elk's sensors instead of relying on Insteon or Zwave sensors. I don't have an Elk installed (yet) here as we just purchased this property. But if/when I do, I would be rather disappointed if a wireless sensor just quit working, and I never knew it. So, if we are to rely on our automation devices, how is this not a valid expectation? I "get" that this is not a security system, but having a dropped sensor that you think is active is sometimes worse than no sensor at all. I'll ignore the "I'll buy it" comments. I can always convert the ISY to Insteon and use the MIMO as a relay, but thanks for your comments, if not your solutions.

I've had an ISY in 3 houses now, and while I've always complained about the UI, I always felt I could trust the device. That is now shaken a bit, as I try zwave. I disconnected a MIMO lite from power, so it would have lost all connectivity to the zwave network, to make some connections to a digital logger AC monitoring relay, and left it unplugged for about 9 hours. I then logged onto the ISY to check something else, and the MIMO was showing as hooked up and fine. WHAT THE _____??!! That is just ridiculous. A disconnected sensor - especially one that is plugged into AC and not on battery - should show as disconnected when that is the case. Otherwise, how can the status of that device be trusted? To be frank, I'm not thrilled with the ISY as a zwave controller. I went with zwave at this remote location because I didn’t want to have to worry about a PLM failure when I’m 500 miles away, but so far I’m finding it much less reliable and more difficult than my old Insteon equipment at the property I just sold. Anyway, any ideas about how this could happen, and how one can discover if a zwave device has died or become disconnected? The role of this MIMO was to report on power failures, so that's rather important. Thanks in advance for any solutions - or even ideas.

(Also) posting this here b/c the Elk subforum can be a lonely place. Thanks for any advice you have. have an M1Gold in my current home, integrated with an ISY994 via M1XEP. Has worked flawlessly for years. But now we’re buying a vacation home in a very remote area, where satellite internet and cellular are the only options (no cable or even POTS available). So, a C1M1 seems like a good idea. However, I’ve heard secondhand/“theoretical” reports that the C1M1 may be less reliable for connecting to the ISY. Can anyone comment on this based on actual experience, and/or offer up their thoughts on the C1M1 as a replacement for the M1XEP in this situation? I’ve also heard little bits here and there about Uplink, but have no experience or real knowledge of them, and think (don’t know) that Uplink may not allow for me to remote in to the unit to check on things, use RP to make changes, etc., which the C1M1 seems to allow. Finally, I’ve done all my own work on my Elk and would like to do the same here, and continue using Alarm Relay for monitoring. Comments on that welcome, too. Thanks!

I think we just have different approaches. The most critical thing here is for the interior (actually the liquid in pipes) to never reach freezing. So a mechanical stat set at around high 30s F, in parallel to the communicating stat, is probably the best failsafe possible when tied to backup power and a lot of fuel. But hey, differences are what make the world interesting and I appreciate all the responses.

Two different buildings, miles apart.. Two different ISPs. Two different HVAC contractors. Very different systems. MOST of the time all is well, admittedly. But this is not a suburban situation. And few people watch their stats as much as I do, as I’ve been thinking about this new property, so maybe I noticed it more easily. But would I put an Ecobee as the sole stat into a house like this (remote)? Nooooooo. Then again, the backup mechanical stat seems to be the most reliable solution.

More great advice and tips - Thanks! Had not heard of Sensaphone but will be googling away.

GREAT experience and advice! Thanks! I think 1-wire may be a big help, especially in the basement and detached garage (can be less pretty). I think I can fish it into a couple of places in the finished areas as well and still keep my wife happy with the appearance. The satellite internet is my biggest worry, partly because I have no experience with it, and also because I fear the modem will need to be rebooted as well. I think I may “heartbeat” it, and allow for an outlet that the ISY can turn off then on via program. The blasted PLM remains my worry there, but if push comes to shove and I have the heat worry addressed via a mechanical stat, I could always keep a spare programmed with addresses from the system (i.e., clone it) and have my neighbor swap it out. Then again, completely agree about Insteon and gennies. Anything but inverter and they won’t work. They’re good once power restored, but when gennie on they won’t communicate. Any idea about zwave on gennies?

After thinking about this more today, I think you are exactly right. Believe an old-fashioned mechanical stat wired in parallel to the connected stat is the best idea. May also put in ISY for control and primary monitoring, and then perhaps a Homeseer Zee for backup temp monitoring but not control (1 wire, perhaps). That leaves the internet connection as the point of greatest vulnerability, but at least the heat can stay on. Thanks for the good idea and caution.

Thanks. Will take a look.

Thanks Larry, but see reply above. Just had to do a human intervention reset last week. Pass on Ecobee for this application. As for backup, will likely Dual WAN at router (failover/failback) but even cellular at this location is very spotty.

Thanks for the thought and reply. With respect, I must say that I no longer find either Ecobee or Nest to be reliable for this type of remote application. I actually own four Ecobees (two lites, a 3 and a 4) in two other properties. The 4 froze up on us last week, losing contact with wifi and requiring a reconnection while we were away (talked a person doing work on the building through it). And, their service goes down from time to time at the API level. I was once a fan, and find them fine for a suburban home, but not for this type of application, at least without some backup.

We are purchasing a vacation home in a remote area that gets very cold with much snow in winter. We’ll have an autostart backup generator with a very large propane tank (1,00 gallons, and will likely double that). The property also uses propane for heat, and when not there we’ll keep indoor temp at around 42 (just enough to prevent pipes from freezing). I want to install an automation system there for monitoring and to turn up heat before we arrive, and since we already use Insteon and ISY in our current home I have some familiarity with them. And, as much as I have complained about the user interface for ISY, I must admit that it has never, ever failed (impressive!) BUT the PLM has failed, which renders the whole system useless for control. So, I’m hoping to reduce the risk of a failed PLM. My main concern with this vacation home is reliability and redundancy when we are not there, as there is only one nearby neighbor who sometimes travels, and the place can get snowed in for two weeks without power. We don’t want to just winterize it because we will visit every few weeks even in winter. So keeping the heat going is critical. Based on that, I wondered if I could just run two ISY systems (each with its own PLM), and have devices such as the thermostat connected to both? My theory is that I could have the primary system put out a “heartbeat” via the PLM (maybe turn on and off a switch?) that the secondary system would monitor. As long as the primary system remains active, the secondary system would just remain dormant. But if the primary went down, then the secondary could take over. Can this be done? And if not, is there a better way to achieve my overall goal of reliability and redundancy for a system that may be inaccessible for days, during very cold weather? Thanks for any thoughts and ideas.

Thanks Teken. I have long appreciated your help. I am a little bit frustrated with my ISY right now, simply because I want a better user interface and the ability to speak to my Nest, but do not write code (so going the node route for GEM or for Raspberry Pi is not currently workable for me) . But I’ve spent so much on Insteon I suppose I will be sticking it out and if I can make this work, gradually start a shift to Zwave. Do I just buy the Zwave card from UDI amd plug it in (swapping out the Zigbee)? Do I then download the other firmware, and am good to go, or is there more to it?

Michel, I was your customer way back in the days of the 99. I’ve been around longer than many current forum members, and have for years been a supporter of UDI. I am no longer active on the forum both because I’m busy and because the culture has changed dramatically over the last few years. As others advance in UI, the simple fact is that you have done little, except for voice. You talk about a “pretty” UI. That’s condescending, and the fact is, your UI looks like it came out of 1995. It’s not that it’s not “prettty”, Michel. It’s just plain bad, and growing increasingly obsolete. And it’s costing you customers - people spending significant sums who have been referred to you by existing users - including me - because it’s just not keeping up with current consumer expectations. And rather than LISTEN to customers who disagree with you, you reply with a note that tells me to essentially not let the door hit me in the rear. So while you certainly don’t care to hear it, this is what a frustrated customer - one who sang your praises for years and has referred people to you - sounds like. The fact that you don’t even care to listen speaks volumes, and that is indeed unfortunate. Enjoy your club. Sorry I no longer fit the customer uniform.

See earlier rant. I have a house full of Insteon and an ISY. I have those today, and have had them for years. Thousands invested. MANY people want control with a cell phone BECAUSE THAT’S HOW PEOPLE NOW CONTROL THINGS. Thanks, but given the original question, that’s just not at all helpful. There’s a common theme that has come to dominate this forum in recent years, sadly. “You can’t get there from here”.

So, this sort of illustrates the two schools of thought, with you in one and me in the other (and no offense meant here - I’m just pointing this out). But after writing it all, I admit that it turns into a little bit of a rant, based on years of both cheering on UDI while all but begging them, in years past, to improve user experience. Re: the need for an app: I want app-based control because often voice-based control is not practical. I have four Echo devices at home and five in my office, all connected to the automation system and used often. But if I just want to control something without speaking, an app is the way to go. For example, as I write this it is 5:20AM and my wife is asleep beside me. Speaking to Alexa would not be welcome! And as for needing to pull out my phone instead of automating everything... If I don’t want to speak a command and just want to, say, turn on an outside light or run a particular program, an app just works.It’s what I want, and frankly what MOST people want, as experience has shown. And as for “taking the time and effort to dial in your system”... I have had an automated home for well over 10 years, including the past seven in this house. But I have also said for years that this attitude (and sorry, but that’s the only word I can think of to describe it, even though it sounds more harsh than I intend) is the reason home automation never really took off, and has until very recently been only a geek hobbyist’s area (and I include myself in that description). In recent years I have certainly not had 1/10 the time to “dial in my system” (i.e., “play around with it as a hobby”) that I wish I had, but my home automation is quite stable, I just want a better UI/GUI than Mobilinc because I find it clunky (e.g., it forces me to use landscape mode on an iPad). I use an iPad in bed, in portrait mode, almost every morning and night to read, check email, etc.. I can use it almost exclusively in portrait mode EXCEPT for Mobilinc, as their designers think they know much more than me about how I will want to use something. They think they know best, because it’s how THEY want to do it. But they’re wrong... When I purchased our small office building last year I thought about installing an ISY, but the lack of UI/GUI and dependence on Java to do things like create and edit programs PUSHED me toward other solutuons. I put in a Lutron Caseta system to interface with the many switches lacking a neutral wire, Zwave switches for those that had a neutral, and a Smartthings hub to control all of it. I put in three Ecobee 3s for HVAC control, and in contrast to you, I am not enamored with their scheduling or physical interface and wish I had gone with Nest, which we have at home. But I can live with them. I then found the Smart Rules app to add true logic to the SmartThings hub, and love it. It just works, is easy to use, and took me a TINY FRACTION of the time it took to get my ISY set up and programmed. Bottom line: I think UDI missed the boat big time in failing to develop a UI/GUI for ISY, which I all but begged Michel to do for years. And what I find almost laughable (but ironic and sad) is that for years most HA enthusiasts screamed about the horrors of “dependence on the cloud”, only to find themselves now going all out on Alexa / Assistant efforts. Had they just accepted the cloud early on and focused on good UI and user experience, they would be in a better place today. But what do we mere “casual users” know, compared to the hard core hobbyists? Oh yeah... En masse, we know where the market is going, because we ARE the market. I really appreciate the stability of my ISY. but in all honesty I would be hard pressed to recommend it to anyone who is not an IT professional, now that other hubs are available. The user experience is just that different. You talk about “true automation”,etc.,... With respect, that’s ot the issue. I want a system that is easy to use! I want a system that takes little time to learn, program (automate), and is a PLEASURE to use. And the cloud/local debate is going away in much the same way people argued against virtual machines years ago. The cloud just works, 99%+, for the vast majority of us. And when time is precious, convenience and ease rules. And finally... I used to be very active on the forum here, for years. Other duties took me away, but to be frank I have been reluctant to engage much in recent years because every time I do, I’m essentially told “You’re not doing it like us, so you’re doing it wong”. Well, maybe so. But somehow the things I’ve asked for keep showing up in products offered by others, and they seem to be doing pretty well. I keep thinking about the time a friend told me that Windows phone was going to “destroy” the other offerings, including my iPhone. OK, then...

iOS only. How much automation (versus remote control) do you employ? Are you satisfied using an app on a tablet (smartrules?) to handle the automation? Use basic Program function within ISY to create a variety of automations. Basically find it very similar to SmartRules app that improves the SmartThings hub, excep that it is on the device and is dependent on Java. I personally find it almost obsolete compared to the SmartThings approach because of the Java dependency.

Hi all. I originally purchased my ISY994 (which working well and stable, and connected via network to my Elk system) with the intention of installing the Zigbee-based GEM energy monitor. I never got around to installing the GEM, and would now rather have Zwave support instead. Questions: 1) Can I just swap out a card in the ISY to accomplish this, or is there more involved? 2) If possible but more is involved, can you please elaborate? 3) Is it possible to have all three capabilities within the ISY (original Insteon, Zwave, and the Zigbee support that would allow for the GEM)? Thanks!

I have been an ISY user since the early days of the 99, and my 994 has been essentially flawless, working with my Elk. But UDI has elected to offer nothing (that I know of) in terms of a decent user interface / GUI, especially for mobile/tablet and I have for years found that frustrating. Also, I don’t code, so writing my own is not an option. I have used Orchestrated Mobilinc for years as well, but find it clunky and lacking overall. My frustration with this situation led me to experiment with the Samsung Smartthings hub when we recently purchased a small commercial building for our business, and I love the interface. Everything is there, it’s simple, and with the Smart Rules app from a third party I can create some decent logic (programs) with no coding knowledge. So, has anybody done anything similar for the ISY? Is there something other than the Mobilinc stuff for a control interface? Has anyone had luck with using Smartthings as an ISY “front end”? I am well aware of the cloud nature/dependency of Smartthings and don’t want to get into that debate. So, does anyone know of a better way to control ISY? Also, the fact that this great little device doesn’t have support for Nest and Ecobee just boggles my mind... I really want to continue using ISY, but the lack of thermostat support and poor user interface has already cost them a sale in our recent building purchase. Can anyone point me to some ideas here, please? Thanks in advance.

Hi , and thanks for the comments/replies. Any updates? Did you receive Alaexa integration in the beta? I am beginning to doubt Sonos' follow through on this...

Sonos announced this last year, but we're now in April and unless I've just missed it, nada. Anyone heard anything? I'm beginning to doubt them. We have a house full of Sonos that rarely gets used these days as Echo has decent quality and is 10x easier. But it would be nice to get even better sound (and some value out of the previous Sonos purchases). Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank you, Paul. Will likely order later today. Taking Christmas week off so will have some time to tinker and install.

Hi all. I have a switchlinc that controls several fluorescent lights in our basement, and while I can turn them on using the ISY, they won't turn off. I suspect this is due to noise from the fluorescents. As each fluorescent is just plugged into a ceiling outlet, can I simply use one of these filters at each light and expect good results? Alternatively, is there a way to just filter at the switchlinc, as this would be less expensive than buying 4-5 filters (one for each light)? The line noise does not seem to affect anything else in the house (40+ other Insteon devices). Thanks for ideas and feedback.

Sorry for neglecting the thread. Too much work... We've tried the Echo as a scene and as an individual device with result the same either way. Problem appears to be that we are using the ISY / PLM. Doesn't seem to happen if outlet activated just via a linked switch. I am tempted to try changing out the LED bulb for another, based on Teken's comment. Will report back once I have.