sloop

i'll just do a new build and keep this one as it is - i was not excited about having to wipe my hard drives and reinstalling everything - a new build will avoid that

so as long as i steer clear of firefox, i should be good

oh - i did search but did not see an obvious match

i am debating the change from xp/pro 32 bit to a 64 bit version of windows - someone please tell me i will have no problems connecting to the isy

that is what puzzles me - its not any particular area or devices that seem to fail - i just got my last device restored and will do some testing tonight - sometimes the signallincs cause errors but other times they help - sometimes they help for a time then start causing errors i don't have any accesspoints - i have 4 signallincs - i have tried subroutinelinc's piggyback thing - but was never clear if the plm goes in the outlet and the signallinc plugs into the plm - or the plm is plugged into the signallinc - i have tried both ways - and without the signallinc paired with the plm my guess was that i would use one signallinc with the plm, one in the kitchen or utility room, one in the dining or living room and one upstairs - i did the blink blink thing setting them up but i can't tell if its better with or without them - i do know that sometimes removing one (or more) improves the communication - i suspect heavy use of them causes them to have problems i think of them as room accessories because they are usually sitting on the floor near an outlet - this post inspired me to find one that went awol - when i have a guest i usually kick them under some furniture or put them in the garage - maybe some gold leaf and a glaze applied.....naw - the bling would probably void the warranty i wish there was a phase copuler like the x10 dryer plug phase coupler - but that would mean insteon would have to remove the (somewhat deceptive) 'mesh' topologony marketing hype anyway - i got all the restores done - right now i have one signallinc in the kitchen and one plugged into the plm - these are on the two different phases

you know on a mainframe i can run a trace and break out the meaning of every bit - even if i (ugh) have to work with routed networks, i can place a thunderbird on a circuit or a sniffer on a lan segment - i absolutely hate this mysterious guessing game with powerline communications it seems to go - having problems? buy more craplincs - still having problems? buy buy buy and lower your expectations now try filterlincs - now rewire your house so you can place x10 on an isolated circuit - now plug in $200 worth of ugly boosterlincs - now throw away houselinc and plc and boosterlincs and all the $5000 of x10 you have - now time device use among your family better to avoid collisions - now throw away your electronics and buy more - now burn down your neighbor's house and move yours over 3 inches - now lower your expectations now buy a membership in our $200 secret club where we can ignore you - now rma, rma and rma - now stop insisting on answers to questions about the problems with our products - now buy the new firmware - now send in your old crap with more money and we will send back a 'refurbished' product that might do the task the original was supposed to do - now reset those keypads that went dark - now lower your expectations now get your journeyman's license and the tools necessary to be an electrician - now get an electrical engineering degree and a phd in physics - now get a lobotomy - now lower your expectations now pay your child support because your wife left you for inflicting insteon on her and her medical bills for the broken leg your kid got tripping over the fedex rma box because her high hopes combined with insteon were not enough to get the light on - now compose a 5 page e/mail that we can ignore and hope you forget about - now pee yourself because we fulfill our legal obligation to swap out one of our failed devices for another that will hopefully hang in there long enough for the warranty to expire even though you are the only one that has ever had the problem - now lower your expectations now call your lawyer because you might have leaked some proprietary tidbit while trying to help some other insteon foo - now shut up and be happy that we are ignoring you diyers that bought our products while we focus on the 'really big accounts' - now replace all your devices with new ones that support the full protocol suite that you assumed you were getting when you bought the ones you have - now lower your expectations now stop questioning all the charges from limassol to your credit cards - now stop asking where the updates are to houselinc - now take a system restore point on your pc because if you start our software it might update and screw up your pc - now stop insisting that we update our software for the devices we release - now lower your expectations now stop insisting our support staff know the current state of our product line - now focus on hope instead of results - now watch the swinging pocketwatch while you are getting sleepier and sleepier - now get excited about our pretty catalog with its clay coated pages - now pee yourself again because we posted an announcement on our own forum about a new how-to video and some long overdue craplinc while we ignore the flurry of questions about the device - now lower your expectations now stop expecting a warranty if you go outside the smart* family to buy our products - now give me your credit card number so you can send back one of our failed devices and look at the empty switchbox while waiting for a replacement and hope that your credit card info is secure - now lower your expectations now go to outside vendors for help salvaging the investment you made in our products - and all your expectations will be exceeded ima pen a poem - twas the life before insteon

the plm is on the same circuit as the last 4 keypads - last night i started getting errors so i gave up - i tried again today and was getting the errors again (sometimes waiting until the next day helps - i guess) - so i plugged in a signallinc in the room (same circuit) and got one keypad done - the second one got an error twice - so i removed the signallinc and trying it again i wonder if there can be noise from another house causing problems in my house - i don't have tons of electronics in the house - my pc equipment is on a filterlinc - my tv equipment is too - the verizon box is new since i had x10 but i have it on a filterlinc too - a/c and heat are off - all ceiling fans are off - i only have 2 fluorescent lights in my house but both are off and never caused x10 a problem

i talked with a guy in that group - seems there is only one person in the group that has made the insteon mistake - and he said they 'almost have him converted over' - might be the 12 step program i need to go cold turkey

yep - automated outlet - maybe i will attend one of the north texas user group meetings the guy told me about - i am sure any purchases i make in a moment of weakness will be from them - especially now that so many people that have purchased from smarthome have had strange charges to their credit card accounts - and smarthome won't release any statement about it i have read good things about the way they handle problems - i bought some of my relays from home depot and evidently, they will have no warranty i have most of my devices restored now - only 4 keypads left - the plm is on that circuit - and i am getting failures - i placed the signallinc on the circuit and they seem to be working now i agreee that the setup process does lots of writing on the powerline - and the operation of scenes sends fewer commands - but like all insteon devices, its unreasonable to expect too much from them (like mack daddy scenes) - lol

accesspoints might help - my problem is that smarthome has always told me that spending more money with them will fix my every problem - then when it does not, the advice is to spend yet more money with them - as best i recall, i am in for $4,800 so far - it takes a long time to get through my head stuff that should be obvious, but i have finally learned that spending more with them is throwing good money after bad i thought about calling smarthome and putting it back on them to prove my signallincs are working properly - but i am convinced they have no method to test them any more than i do with my 'try this and see if it seems better' method another thing that puzzles me is that my x10 signals worked great - i did have a dryer phase coupler with x10 - but since there is not one for insteon, i have these signallincs - frustrating

lol - i keep sayin i have a mack daddy scene that is probably asking way too much of insteon - they never mentioned that when i bought all the craplincs - lol in the dark ages (before the isy), i set all those scenes up (as recommended by smarthome) using houselinc - had to use x10 to sync the buttons - it was thousands of lines of whatever they called their programs - when it would not work, they said to add a delay between every command (which i did) i think these signallincs are causing my comm errors - i got an error twice restoring my dining room keypad - so i placed a different signallinc in the room and the restore worked - i started restoring the upstairs devices and the errors started again - so i removed the signallinc again and the errors went away i hate this guessing stuff with insteon - but i should be able to get these last devices restored - then i'll test the operation some

it did not say - just the red failed message i noticed on the list of devices (network view i guess) that the status for many had changed from off to on (not a percentage but the word on) - the lights were off one light in my loft turned on during the restore - it looked like it was 100% on - i left it on while the restore process continued

i got no other message other than it failed - i don't think i touched anything while it was doing the restore - so i unplugged the lights i could from the appliancelincs before going to bed - left the rest on - but i am betting i would forget and touch something if i had to wait 30 or more hours - i am doing them one at a time now - i have 2 signallincs online - the one that was causing the failing devices is sitting on the floor the restores of the individual devices is going well - i will test when complete - does the plm need to be restored?

well it failed some time last night - the last time i woke up and checked it was probably around 6:00 - so will doing each device accomplish the same thing?

about 5 hours in and i am at 9% with zero errors so far

lol - it is hella lots - but all of them ramp up to between 20-40% - most in there are secondary keypad buttons (i have like 24 keypads) - only about 35 are loads funny thing about the neighbors - before i got the isy and was trying to make this stuff work, i was using what the manual called 'grouping' - you have to link (walking around - and up and down the stairs) each button to the other in both the on and off state - so to have 2 secondary buttons grouped button 1 on - link to button 2 button 1 off - link to button 2 button 2 on - link to button 1 button 2 off - link to button 1 of course when a link is created the load lights flash my dusk scene has 14 secondary buttons acting as controllers - which was lots of walking and flashing (my night scene does too) - i had a neighbor that i did not know come to the door and ask if everything was ok the isy has done away with all that - remarkable little box and the only way to go if you go the insteon route i took a backup of my isy before starting the restore devices - i am guessing it will take all night to perform - i think i started it about 21:00 central

# Dining Room Lamps: DRO Dining Room Lamps: Controller Dining Room Lamps: Responder # Foyer Lamp: FO Foyer Lamp: Controller Foyer Lamp: Responder # Guest Bath Lamp: GBathS Guest Bath Lamp: Controller # Guest Bedroom Fan: Guest Bedroom Fan: Controller GBedP Guest Bedroom Fan: Controller # Guest Bedroom Lamp (Bedside: GBedP Guest Bedroom Lamp (Bed: Controller Guest Bedroom Lamp (Bedside): Responder # Guest Bedroom Lamp (Reading: GBedP Guest Bedroom Lamp (Rea: Controller Guest Bedroom Lamp (Reading): Responder # Guest Bedroom Lamps: GBedP Guest Bedroom Lamp (Rea: Responder GBedP Guest Bedroom Lamp (Bed: Responder GBedO Guest Bedroom Lamps: Controller Guest Bedroom Lamp (Reading): Responder Guest Bedroom Lamp (Bedside): Responder # Guest Bedroom Overhead: GBedP Guest Bedroom Overhead: Controller Guest Bedroom Overhead: Controller # Half Bath Lamp: HBathS Half Bath Lamp: Controller Half Bath Lamp: Responder # Kitchen Hallway Overhead: Kitchen Hallway Overhead: Controller KS Kitchen Hallway Overhead: Controller # Kitchen Overhead: Kitchen Overhead: Controller KS Kitchen Overhead: Controller Kitchen Overhead: Controller # Kitchen Under Cabinet: KS Kitchen Under Cabinet: Controller Kitchen U/C (Range): Responder OPatio Kitchen Under Cabinet: Controller Kitchen U/C (Sink): Responder # Living Room Lamp (Chair): Living Room Lamp (Chair): Controller LRP Living Room Lamp (Chair): Controller # Living Room Lamp (Sofa): LRP Living Room Lamp (Sofa): Controller Living Room Lamp (Sofa): Controller # Living Room Overhead: Living Room Overhead: Controller LRP Living Room Overhead: Controller # Living Room Spotlight: Living Room Spotlight: Controller LRP Living Room Spotlight: Controller # Loft Hallway Lamp: LHO Loft Hallway Lamp: Controller Loft Hallway Lamp: Responder # Loft Lamp (Accent): Loft Lamp (Accent): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Accent): Controller # Loft Lamp (Chairs): Loft Lamp (Chairs): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Chairs): Controller # Loft Lamp (Floor): LP Loft Lamp (Floor): Controller Loft Lamp (Floor): Responder # Loft Lamp (Sofa): Loft Lamp (Sofa): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Sofa): Controller # Loft Lamps: Loft Lamp (Sofa): Responder Loft Lamp (Chairs): Responder Loft Lamp (Accent): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Floor): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Accent): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Chairs): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Sofa): Responder LHO Loft Lamps: Controller Loft Lamp (Floor): Responder # Master Bath Closet: Master Bath Closet: Controller MBathS Master Bath Closet: Controller # Master Bath Lamp (Left): Master Bath Lamp (Left): Responder MBathS Master Bath Lamp (Left: Controller # Master Bath Lamp (Right): Master Bath Lamp (Right): Responder MBathS Master Bath Lamp (Righ: Controller # Master Bath Vent: MBathS Master Bath Vent: Controller Master Bath Vent: Controller # Master Bedroom Lamp (Accent: Master Bedroom Lamp (Accent): Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom Lamp (A: Controller MBedPD Master Bedroom Lamp (A: Controller MBedBL Master Bedroom Lamp (A: Controller # Master Bedroom Lamp (Desk): MBedPB Master Bedroom Lamp (D: Controller Master Bedroom Lamp (Desk): Responder MBedPD Master Bedroom Lamp (D: Controller MBedBL Master Bedroom Lamp (D: Controller # Master Bedroom Lamps (Bedsi: MBedPB Master Bedroom Lamps (: Controller MBedPD Master Bedroom Lamps (: Controller Master Bedroom Lamps (Bedside: Controller # Master Bedroom Overhead: MBedPB Master Bedroom Overhea: Controller MBedPD Master Bedroom Overhea: Controller Master Bedroom Overhead: Controller # Office Lamps: Office Lamp (Chair): Responder OO Office Lamps: Controller # Stairway Overhead: Stairway Overhead: Controller Stairway Overhead: Controller Dining Room: Dining Room Overhead: Responder DRO Dining Room Lamps: Responder DRO Dining Room: Controller FO Dining Room: Controller Dining Room Lamps: Responder LRP Dining Room: Controller Dusk: MBedPD Master Bedroom Overhea: Responder MBedPD Master Bedroom Lamps (: Responder Loft Lamp (Sofa): Responder MBedPD Master Bedroom: Responder MBedPD Master Bath: Responder Stairway Overhead: Responder MBedPD Dusk: Controller KS Kitchen Hallway Overhead: Responder MBedPD Night: Responder SO Loft: Responder MBedPD Master Bedroom Lamp (D: Responder MBedPD Master Bedroom Lamp (A: Responder Kitchen Sink: Responder Living Room Lamp (Chair): Responder Master Bedroom Lamp (Desk): Responder LHO Night: Responder LHO Dusk: Controller LHO Loft Hallway Lamp: Responder LHO Loft Lamps: Responder Loft Hallway Overhead: Responder LRP Living Room: Responder Foyer Overhead: Responder OPatio Night: Responder OPatio Dusk: Controller LP Loft: Responder FO Foyer Lamp: Responder OPatio Kitchen Under Cabinet: Responder Master Bath Lamp (Right): Responder FO Foyer: Responder OPatio Kitchen: Responder FO Living Room: Responder LRP Night: Responder FO Dining Room: Responder Outdoor Patio: Responder Master Bedroom Lamps (Bedside: Responder LRP Living Room Lamp (Sofa): Responder LRP Dusk: Controller MBedBL Night: Responder LRP Living Room Spotlight: Responder MBedBL Dusk: Controller LRP Living Room Lamp (Chair): Responder LRP Dining Room: Responder MBedBL Master Bedroom Lamp (D: Responder LRP Living Room Overhead: Responder MBedBL Master Bedroom Lamp (A: Responder MBedO Foyer: Responder MBedO Kitchen: Responder MBedO Master Bath: Responder MBedO Master Bedroom: Responder LP Loft Lamp (Floor): Responder Kitchen U/C (Sink): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Accent): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Chairs): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Sofa): Responder Master Bath Sinks: Responder Master Bedroom Overhead: Responder Half Bath Lamp: Responder MBathS Master Bath Lamp (Left: Responder LP Dusk: Controller MBathS Master Bath Lamp (Righ: Responder LP Night: Responder Kitchen Hallway Overhead: Responder KHO Kitchen: Responder KHO Dusk: Controller KHO Half Bath: Responder KHO Night: Responder Loft Hallway Lamp: Responder Outdoor Porch: Responder OPorch Kitchen: Responder OPorch Outdoor: Responder HBathS Half Bath: Responder HBathS Dusk: Controller HBathS Night: Responder OPorch Night: Responder HBathS Half Bath Lamp: Responder Half Bath Sink: Responder KS Kitchen: Responder KS Kitchen Under Cabinet: Responder MBathO Master Bath: Responder Master Bath Overhead: Responder MBathO Night: Responder MBathO Master Bedroom: Responder MBathO Dusk: Controller Living Room Overhead: Responder Loft Lamp (Floor): Responder Loft Lamp (Chairs): Responder Loft Overhead: Responder LO Loft: Responder Living Room Lamp (Sofa): Responder GBedP Night: Responder Outdoor Wallwashers (Back): Responder GBedP Dusk: Controller GO Master Bedroom: Responder Living Room Spotlight: Responder GO Kitchen: Responder GO Night: Responder GO Dusk: Controller Loft Lamp (Accent): Responder Stairway Overhead: Responder OO Loft: Responder Outdoor Wallwashers (Front): Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom Overhea: Responder Master Bedroom Lamp (Accent): Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom Lamps (: Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom Lamp (D: Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom Lamp (A: Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom: Responder MBedPB Master Bath: Responder MBedPB Dusk: Controller MBedPB Night: Responder Foyer Lamp: Responder Dining Room Lamps: Responder Master Bath Lamp (Left): Responder GBedO Loft: Responder Dining Room Overhead: Responder DRO Dining Room Lamps: Responder DRO Dining Room: Responder Kitchen U/C (Range): Responder DRO Dusk: Controller DRO Night: Responder Foyer: MBedO Foyer: Controller Foyer Overhead: Responder FO Foyer Lamp: Responder FO Foyer: Controller Foyer Lamp: Responder Guest Bath: LP Guest Bath: Controller GBathS Guest Bath Lamp: Responder GBathS Guest Bath: Controller GBedP Guest Bath: Controller Guest Bath Sink: Responder GBedO Guest Bath: Controller OO Guest Bath: Controller SO Guest Bath: Controller LO Guest Bath: Controller Guest Bedroom: GBedP Guest Bedroom Lamp (Rea: Responder GBathS Guest Bedroom: Controller GBedP Guest Bedroom Lamp (Bed: Responder GBedP Guest Bedroom Overhead: Responder GBedO Guest Bedroom: Controller GBedP Guest Bedroom: Controller GBedO Guest Bedroom Lamps: Responder Guest Bedroom Lamp (Reading): Responder Guest Bedroom Lamp (Bedside): Responder Guest Bedroom Overhead: Responder SO Guest Bedroom: Controller LO Guest Bedroom: Controller Half Bath: HBathS Half Bath Lamp: Responder Half Bath Sink: Responder HBathS Half Bath: Controller KHO Half Bath: Controller Half Bath Lamp: Responder Kitchen: KS Kitchen: Controller MBedO Kitchen: Controller KS Kitchen Under Cabinet: Responder OPorch Kitchen: Controller GO Kitchen: Controller Kitchen U/C (Range): Responder OPatio Kitchen Under Cabinet: Responder OPatio Kitchen: Controller KHO Kitchen: Controller Kitchen U/C (Sink): Responder Kitchen Sink: Responder Living Room: LRP Living Room: Controller Living Room Spotlight: Responder Living Room Lamp (Chair): Responder FO Living Room: Controller LRP Living Room Lamp (Sofa): Responder LRP Living Room Spotlight: Responder Living Room Overhead: Responder LRP Living Room Lamp (Chair): Responder Living Room Lamp (Sofa): Responder LRP Living Room Overhead: Responder Loft: Loft Lamp (Sofa): Responder LP Loft: Controller Loft Lamp (Chairs): Responder Stairway Overhead: Responder Loft Overhead: Responder Stairway Overhead: Responder SO Loft: Controller LO Loft: Controller OO Loft: Controller Loft Hallway Lamp: Responder Loft Lamp (Accent): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Floor): Responder GBedO Loft: Controller LP Loft Lamp (Accent): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Chairs): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Sofa): Responder LHO Loft Hallway Lamp: Responder LHO Loft Lamps: Responder Loft Hallway Overhead: Responder Loft Lamp (Floor): Responder Master Bath: MBathO Master Bath: Controller MBedO Master Bath: Controller Master Bath Overhead: Responder Master Bath Lamp (Left): Responder Master Bath Lamp (Right): Responder MBedPD Master Bath: Controller MBedPB Master Bath: Controller Master Bath Sinks: Responder MBathS Master Bath Lamp (Left: Responder MBathS Master Bath Lamp (Righ: Responder Master Bedroom: MBedPD Master Bedroom Overhea: Responder MBedPD Master Bedroom Lamps (: Responder MBedPD Master Bedroom: Controller Master Bedroom Lamps (Bedside: Responder MBedPD Master Bedroom Lamp (D: Responder MBedPD Master Bedroom Lamp (A: Responder MBedBL Master Bedroom Lamp (D: Responder MBedBL Master Bedroom Lamp (A: Responder Master Bedroom Lamp (Accent): Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom Overhea: Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom Lamps (: Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom Lamp (D: Responder MBedPB Master Bedroom Lamp (A: Responder MBedO Master Bedroom: Controller GO Master Bedroom: Controller Master Bedroom Lamp (Desk): Responder MBathO Master Bedroom: Controller MBedPB Master Bedroom: Controller Master Bedroom Overhead: Responder Night: OPatio Night: Controller FO Foyer Lamp: Responder LRP Night: Controller MBedPD Night: Controller Foyer Lamp: Responder MBedBL Night: Controller Outdoor Wallwashers (Front): Responder DRO Night: Controller KHO Night: Controller Outdoor Wallwashers (Back): Responder GBedP Night: Controller MBathO Night: Controller GO Night: Controller Loft Lamp (Accent): Responder LP Loft Lamp (Accent): Responder LHO Night: Controller HBathS Night: Controller OPorch Night: Controller MBedPB Night: Controller LP Night: Controller Office: Office Overhead: Responder GBathS Office: Controller Office Lamp (Chair): Responder SO Office: Controller LO Office: Controller OO Office: Controller OO Office Lamps: Responder Outdoor: Outdoor Wallwashers (Back): Responder Outdoor Porch: Responder OPorch Outdoor: Controller Outdoor Patio: Responder Outdoor Wallwashers (Front): Responder

well smarthome has my 4a for 'testing' - they gave a progress report that all was fine a few months ago - but it seems to have been dropped - i was thinking they might send me a new one but was waiting for a few more releases before i called and asked i did that query - this is interesting - that device failed the query as did 4 others near it - no other devices failed i have suspected these signallincs were a sack of steaming craplincs (i have 4 but was using 3) - one was plugged in near these devices (on that circuit) - so i removed the signallinc and did the query again - all the devices on that circuit passed (one on another circuit failed) - so i retried the restore and it worked fine without the signallinc lemme try some of the scenes and see how they work i also generated a list of my scenes - i want to post them and let you see if i am pushing it too far

i am not exacely sure how to do the factory reset of the plm - i thought it was to unplug it - wait about 10 seconds - hold down the set buttom while plugging it back in and hold it 10 seconds - that is what i did before - i have that version 56 (or 58 ) plm and i recall something about waiting about 2 minutes after a factory reset for it to go through what it needs to do - i assume that since i am using the 99 that i need to unplug the cable from the plm when doing the plm reset - am i close to it?

i had some inspiration for this restart - problems of my own making i bought 2 outletlincs to replace the lamplincs in my master bath - one was craplinc after 20 minutes but i get it replaced - i used those lamplincs on the last two lamps i had that were not controlled by insteon several months ago, i lost an entire circuit - it was the same circuit with the outletlincs - when trying to isolate the problem, i replaced several devices (including a freezer) - among the devices were my outside outlets - i finally gave up and called an electrician ($300) to isolate the problem - he found two problems - one was a deformed wire nut that came loose (heat) and the second was a wire i broke when replacing one of the outside outlets - he replaced the wire nut and left the broken wire for me (the outlet was switched by a relaylinc inside) one weekend i got motivated to install my undercabinet lights in the kitchen - 120v xenon because in my house, almost everything is on a dimmer and i wanted to avoid possible noise from a transformer i had one lamplinc that had failed so i got it replaced and robbed another from an upstairs bath to use for the undercabinet lights - as best i recall. i deleted the one i robbed from the isy and redefined it - the rma's unit i think i deleted it from all the scenes, did a swap and renamed it - in any event, i got them in but i noticed some odd stuff - the pedestal mounted keypad on my desk has a secondary button that controls the lamplinc for my desk light - i actually use that one (but very little else) - i noticed that when i pressed the button, one of the outletlincs in my master bath would come on - not back off - but it always came on - so i figured i honked up something in the mysterious link tables spring in texas - back to the lawn competition and fight against fireants - while edging the lawn, i was reminded of the broken wire - and somehow found the motivation to fix it - now my front low voltage wallwashers needed to be added to the appropriate scenes but i am thinking about how something is already hosed and adding the wallwasher relay to scenes would probably violate the rules of order (when creating a scene with keypads) so i thought what the hell - and started over probably prematurely because i am reworking the upstairs bath and will want to replace the lamplinc that i robbed from up there - probably with an outletlinc since i hate looking at wall warts - and since adding that will probably violate the order thing again...i figure i will screw something up again and need another fresh start on the upside, the baldwin hardware looks and feels rich - and my cousin out here has a commercial monogram machine so i can get the linens done free - and - the new rom i flashed on my 6800 enabled rev a and the internal chipset gps (in case edfinley is reading the thread) in trying to keep to my promise not to spend any money with smarthome, i remembered that automatedoutlet was a couple of burbs down the road - so i checked the website for the address and hours - when i did not see the hours of operation, i called the number thinking that at 23:00, there would be a recording giving the hours - but someone answered the phone - he checked the inventory and said he had an outletlinc - we talked awhile and he said i should attend one of their north texas home automation user group meetings - before his blurtooth headset cut out, he wanted to ask some questions about why i used insteon have you ever walked into a boatowners meeting, thinking you might get to talk to someone that has experience with a harkin wench you were contemplating - but you find the topic of conversation is about the problem of reserving some slip in an exotic port and how to deal with their hired crews? someone asks about your boat and you have to say yours is only a 45 footer - someone says something polite and you realize that you are way outta your league up in hera, so you sit beside the loner in the corner with the 52 footer and get shunned by him too i see myself sitting in the corner of a home automation users group with my smarthome catalog feeling that same way - lol anyway - i have all but one restored - its a dimmer in the center of a 3 gang box - the led is very dim which is annoying as hell - on one side is the relay that was out of service until a few days ago (the outside outlet i repaired) - another dimmer is on the other side - the plate is warm but i expect that - i tried a factory reset and retried the restore unsuccessfully - maybe i'll rma it - i paid for the extended warranty on all these craplincs thanks for the explanation - i think i should probably forget about my largest scene and try to accomplish the same thing programmatically with the isy

once again, i did a setup from scratch - deleted all scenec and devices, factory reset of the isy and all devices - then added each device and recreated the scenes i tried without doing the factory reset on all the devices but got lots of errors (i only deleted the scenes and devices form the isy and did the factory reset on the isy) - the difference is dramatic when you reset all the devices i never am sure of the order to add the resources in a scene - i use several controlling buttons on keypads and these are usually secondary buttons - the load of one (maybe more) of the keypads is usually in the scene but i recall reading that a device restore will rewrite all the links to the device and place them in the correct order - so after i completed my setup, i performed a restore on each device (but not the plm) these restores can take a long time and seem to write lots to the device -(some take 30 minutes or more) - some take several retries before successful - and one is a particular problem my question is about the state of the link table if a restore fails - is that device the only one affected? how does a restore work? does it delete the link table and bebuild it? not asking for any secrets to be revealed - just curious

excellent post - i get this confused in my pointy head - could you do the rules for the opposite scenerio? when the secondary keypad button is the controller and the primary (load) button is included as a responder in the scene - that is what i use

you have a 6800? we are promised a new rom first quarter that will enable rev a - 3mbps!

Bummerlinc Goodnewslinc! Thank you, Rand i am so sorry i forgot all about this - we are a little spooked about bending any rules - a coworker was sent down the road when he helped a guy find a job with an account - something we have all done and assumed our blue employer winked at - evidently, the guy that was hired did not work out so good because unauthorized charges appeared on some bank cards - we all got refresher classes on the rules and got to sign a form that said we understood those rules

that post gave me a headache and brought back memories of my math teachers but i think i understood what you said - and how i could apply it to my life i'm all about scenes (well - what i call scenes in the isy) - and have 24 keypads - i have both scene controllers on the secondary buttons as well as devices (like lamplincs) assigned to secondary buttons - so when i turn on a scene (for example loft), all the corresponding buttons that control the devices come on too - not a problem with the isy when i use a device controlling button to brighten a lamp or turn one lamp off, the loft scene button is still on but using your first definition of scenes and groups, the devices in loft would be considered a group - when i turn it on, the loft scene = true because all the devices are at their scene levels if i adjust a lamp, loft scene = false and a controller could turn the loft button off i have read that some products could do that, but accepted that with insteon i would not have that capability