LeeG

nowandthen The fact that you can take successful Backups is good news. I had assumed that whatever was preventing one of the files from opening when doing a Restore Modem would have interfered with the Backup as well. I’ll leave the error message question for the UDI folks. The Background LED settings apply to all KPL buttons rather than an individual button. Not necessary to adjust any of that information unless you want the general background LED intensity to be something other than the default. Button Grouping is available on all KPLs. It works when buttons are physically pressed on the KPL. It has no affect when issuing commands from another controller to the KPL. I would think about a slightly different approach to the Scenes you are using to turn Off the KPL button LEDs. As you say there is a delay in getting all the buttons Off when done individually. Think about defining a Scene that has all the KPL buttons you want to turn Off as responders to the Scene. SceneABCDOff Responders KPL button A KPL button B KPL button C KPL button D If Control 'House / Interior / Theater / Theater Main KPL.1' is switched On Then Set Scene 'Theater House Lights' On Set Scene 'SceneABCDOff’ Off X10 stuff Buttons A,B,C,D should turn Off nearly simultaneous just as all the responders in ‘Theater House Lights’ respond nearly simultaneously. Scene1ABDOff Responders KPL button 1 KPL button A KPL button B KPL button D If Control 'House / Interior / Theater / Theater Main KPL.C' is switched On Then Set Scene 'Theater Intermission' On Set Scene 'Scene1ABDOff' Off X10 stuff You do not need to turn on button 1 or button C in the respective Program as pressing the KPL button turns the LED On. Since the If is “Switched On†the button LED has to be On from the button press. Lee

nowandthen Glad to hear things are working. A few things to consider. The Controller/Responder button toggles the device between a Controller or Responder in the Scene. I am thinking writing the links for the Scenes were the solution. With the error encountered when trying to reload the PLM link database I am concerned that there is a file system problem that should not be ignored. The -110012 message means “SD DRIVE CONFIG FILE OPEN READ FAILEDâ€. You may not be able to take a backup of the current configuration which would also mean you would not have a backup for a restore operation if needed in the future. Since this exposure is only going to grow larger as you add more and more devices, Programs, Scenes etc to the ISY you should resolve it now. Try taking a backup of the ISY and if that works try using that backup to do a restore of the ISY. If that works all should be okay but I am thinking the backup will not work for the same reason the Restore Modem did not work. Lee

The links in the PLM are suspect at this point. No idea what those messages mean. Someone with more ISY knowledge than I have will have to address that. Maybe a file system problem or the SD card is not working as it should. Whatever that problem is you will not be able to restore the PLM until it is resolved. The KPL control of a SwitchLinc, was that created through a Scene created through the ISY or by direct linking of the KPL to the SwitchLinc. No harm in factory resetting the KPL but you will have to Restore Device for the KPL. When one KPL button will reliably send a message to the PLM but another button will not either the link in the KPL is missing/damaged or the PLM link is missing/damaged. A KPL button cannot send a message to the PLM and have that message recognized without those link records. If all buttons were failing then I would suspect powerline communication problem but when limited to some set of buttons it is more likely a link record problem. Since you cannot restore the PLM another option is to Remove the KPL from the ISY and add it again. That will cause the link records in the KPL to be written again and also the ones in the PLM. Button Grouping should not be playing any part here. That has to do with defining a group of KPL buttons that function like Radio Buttons where only one button can be ON at any one time. Would affect which command is sent when the KPL button is pressed but would not suppress a button message altogether.

Although it is less likely the PLM could have a link record problem. Try File/Restore Modem (PLM) which will rewrite the link records in the PLM just as the Restore Device did for the KPL. Is your general Insteon powerline communication good?

nowandthen When you have run the Event Viewer trace of the button that does not work please post the Event Viewer information if it shows message activity when the not working button is pressed. There was a situation with non-toggle mode where the state of the LED controlled whether an ON or OFF command is issued even though you set non-toggle ON mode. Normally the KPL LED would not be affected by a button press in non toggle mode but since you are changing the LED condition through an ISY program you may be having an unintended effect on the command being issued by the KPL. Lee

Bring up the Tools/Diagnostics/Event Viewer and set Change Level to 3. Press a KPL button that works. Wait at least 15 seconds and press a KPL button that does not work. The Event Viewer display will show if the button that does not work is sending a message to the ISY PLM. Sounds like you may have accidently changed the link records in the KPL. If you do not see messages in the Event Viewer when the KPL button is pressed that does not work, right click on the KeypadLinc primary button under My Lighting and select “Restore Deviceâ€.

Again, sorry for slow response. Still no emails on new post. Yes, my event viewer display is quiet when no Insteon traffic is flowing. I have the problem documented in a few other threads about not being able to reach a NTP server so I run with that option disabled. If you were having problems reaching the NTP server the Event Viewer would show repeated attempts to obtain the time from the network. Zick, can you reconfirm that the KPL button press works with the network cable removed. Sometimes other things happen at the same time so when symptoms change it can be attributed to the wrong action. If removing the network cable continues to provide successful KPL button response, are the LEDs either on the front of the ISY or the back at the RJ45 network connector blinking when no Insteon activity is happening.

Zick, I agree with oberkc that it is something that I have not seen before where the network side is creating a problem with Insteon traffic. However, if removing the network cable consistently restores Insteon reliability, then I think we need to look in that direction. It could be that something causing significant network traffic is viewed as an issue and addressed before moving on to the Insteon side. Let us know if you can see network activity that stops when the network cable is removed. Lee

Sorry for the slow responses as I am not getting email notification of new posts. It does not sound like powerline noise when things work okay with the network cable removed. More inclined to think heavy network traffic is preventing the ISY from servicing the PLM. Are you seeing consistent LEDs blinking either front or back when the network cable is installed. Bring up the Event viewer and see what it shows with the network cable installed without testing Insteon devices. Frequent attempts to time sync comes to mind if the NTP server option is on but you cannot reach an NTP server. Something like that. Again, if programs work consistently without the network cable installed I don't think it is powerline noise or signal attenuation. I think it is related to heavy and persistent network load.

So when you disconnect the Network cable from the ISY then the Programs are triggered when you press the KPL button? Are the status LEDs on the front of the ISY or the LEDs on the Internet jack on the back of the ISY showing signs of communication when the cable is plugged in, LEDs blinking when no Insteon traffic? Are you using a standard 2412S PLM or the newer 2413S Dual Band PLM and using an external power supply to power the ISY?

Perhaps that is a finger check and should be .... 0F.D6.4A If .4A is the correct address the KPL has a good "Controller of" for Group 3 (button C) pointing to the PLM . With the PLM having the correct “Responder to†link record that puts the problem in the communication arena. This is an 8 button KPL?

What is the PLM Insteon address?

The link record In the PLM “A2 03 10.A3.C6 01 09 00†is a good “Responder to†link record for KPL button C (Group 3). What is the PLM Insteon address? The KPL has some 55 link records which could be valid if the KPL buttons are directly linked (Scenes) to many other Insteon devices on the powerline. Is it reason in your configuration to have some 40 link records for devices either being controlled by the KPL buttons or the KPL buttons are responding to? There are 16 link records in an 8 button KPL that the ISY writes for its own purposes. Eight of them allow button press messages to be sent to the ISY PLM and 8 of them allow the ISY to control the KPL buttons. oberkc suggestion of plugging the PLM into the KPL circuit is a good diagnostic technique if you can find an outlet on the same breaker as the KPL. EDIT: althought I have been using Insteon almost since Smarthome started selling the technology I am only a few months with the ISY. Does any watching this thread know what the ISY is indicating by the [identical] designation on the beginning of the KPL link record display. That has no meaning as far as Insteon is concerned. I do not see that when I use Tools to display a KPL database here.

There is no query command for a Secondary KPL button so no change in the ISY display for a Secondary KPL button is normal. There is no Insteon message from the KPL to the ISY PLM which there should be if the link records in both devices are correct and there is good powerline communication between the KPL and the ISY PLM. Use Tools/Diagnostics/Show Device Links Table for the KPL. This will show if the link in the KPL is correct. Do the same thing for the PLM. If the links are there then there is a communication problem. Did you use New INSTEON Device to add the KPL to ISY?

Does the Event Viewer level 3 show anything more now that the Access Points are on opposite 120V legs. My KPL name is KeypadLinc-3. When I select a button and it is added to a Scene it is shown as KeypadLinc-3 - C, Your post is showing an Insteon address. Just looked a little unusual from what mine show.

Sorry about that misdirect. I should have gone back to page 1 before posting. The KPL device name is a little unusual. Did you assign the KPL Name as the Insteon address. The Event Viewer did not show any Insteon message from the KPL. Could well be a communication problem with the way the Access Points are placed. It is good to have one at the PLM site but they still have to be on opposite 120V legs. With an Access Point at the PLM and one at the ApplianceLinc you may not have an Access Point on the 120V leg containing the KPL.

The Scene posted does not look like it includes whatever you are using to control the circulator pump.

Likely cannot be "fixed" from ISY. Different KPL revisions have different memory maps and although I have no specific information about background LED intensity, the different KPL revisions account for the differences you are seeing. Refer to the User Guide (on line with link from Smarthome sales page for KPL) for the particular revision level for setting the background LED level. It may vary by KPL revision level so if the technique in a User Guide does not work it is probably the wrong technique for that KPL revision.

A Scene/Group in its simplest form involves two devices. A Controller, such as a KeypadLinc button, and a Responder such as a LampLinc. Pressing the button on the Controller device turns the Responder device On/Off. To accomplish this a link between the Controller and Responder is established. This link consists of a “Controller of†link record in the Controller device and a “Responder to†link record in the Responder device. The link record in the Controller identifies the Insteon address of the Responder device. The link record in the Responder device contains the Insteon address of the Controller device and information such as how Bright should the Responder turn On and how fast (ramp rate) should that Bright level be reached. To create this link the Controller is put into linking mode first (which makes it the Controller) by pressing the button/paddle for a prescribed amount of time. Generally some indication exists that the Controller device has enter linking mode. In this case the KeypadLinc button will blink. Then the Responder device is identified by pressing the Set button on the responder for a prescribed amount of time. This technique involves physical activity at both the Controller device and the Responder device and is often referred to as Set button linking. A much simpler technique is to use the ISY to create the Scene. This involves defining the Scene and adding the Controller and Responder devices to the Scene. The ISY will write the required link records in the Controller and Responder. This may sound complicated but Scenes are the basis for the majority of device to device control. For simple Responder device control there are commands that can be used that do not require a Scene. However, where multiple responder devices are to be controlled a Scene is a far better means of control. All Responder devices react nearly simultaneously to a Scene On or Off command. Some devices, such as a Secondary KeypadLinc button , can only be controlled with a Scene. Take the time to understand what a Scene is and how it works. It is an essential aspect of Insteon communication and the time to learn the workings of a Scene is well worth it.

gtrotter4, You can put the Router/Modem on a UPS. If that is all you are trying to keep powered there are small UPS devices which are not very expensive. I keep all my PC equipment on a UPS which includes a DSL Modem. Most of the time the phone line and DSL capability stay up even when power to the subdivision fails. The only possible issue is that a UPS can easily interfere with Insteon communication, mainly due to signal attenuation. I use a SmartHome Filterlinc between the UPS and the powerline to prevent that. Just be sure things like the ISY PLM are not on the UPS or any surge suppressed outlet. Lee

Randy, You will need 2.8.0 to work with a new EZIO6I. I have tested 2.8.0 with a wide variety of new and old SHN EZIOxx products including the EZIO6I and found all working on 2.8.0. Lee

Sure. By default a KPL button works in Toggle mode. Press it once and the KPL issues On commands to the Responder(s) and the button LED turns On. Press it again and the KPL issues Off commands to the Responder(s) and the button LED turns Off. There is non-toggle On mode where a KPL button always issues an On command to the responder(s) and non-toggle Off mode where a KPL button always issues an Off command. There are lots of features in a KPL. I recommend reading the online KPL User Guide to get a sense of all the fun you can have with the KPL.

What type switch are you using. I don't think the ICON dimmers have the same ramp rate capability as a SwitchLinc dimmer.

Not sure there is a typical usage as the possibilities are so varied. Some examples from my own house. I have an 8 button KPL at top of the stairs leading to the basement. The Main button controls the lights that cover the stairs to the basement. The other buttons control all the lights in the various rooms in the basement. Plus the switches in the basement that actually control each load (light circuit) in the basement are linked back to a secondary button on the same KPL. I can tell at a glance if any of the basement lights have been left On and can turn any of them Off from the living room. Another example is an 8 button KPL at the front door. Two of the secondary buttons control the garage door openers in a detached garage. Four other secondary buttons on the same KPL indicate whether each garage door is fully open or fully closed. There is another KPL along side of that one which controls the various light circuits in the garage. I can tell if any lights were left On and turn them Off from the house. Or turn the garage lights On from the house before going to the garage in the dark. One of the buttons controls the outside floods so the driveway has light for the walk to the garage. KPLs are often used in Theater Rooms. Different KPL buttons are used to establish different Scenes in the room. One button may have all the “house lights†on so folks can enter the room. Another button can turn on the electronics. Another button can bring the “house lights†down for better viewing. Each KPL button can control one or more responder devices and each KPL button can be controlled by one or more Controllers. From there the possibilities are whatever you can dream up or whatever makes sense from a functional point of view. Some folks have a KPL on the night table alongside the bed. One button can turn all the house lights off. One button can turn on the bedroom lights to full. Another button might turn on the bedroom light to a dim level. Bright enough to walk around but not so bright as to wake some. One button can turn on the lights in the master bathroom. On and On and On.

A 2413 PLM does not provide power to the ISY. An external power supply is required to power the ISY device when using a 2413 PLM.