LeeG

Thanks for the explanation. That all makes perfect sense. I fully agree about the delay which is why I have all but a very few conditions directly linked (Motion Sensor for example). I would leave the delay in the Program. Nothing can be done about the faster speed of the new PLM nor would you want to. It might be possible to move the link records associated with the ISY being the Scene Controller to the end of the PLM link database but it would require an additional PLM for powerline interface and another piece of software. Also not at all sure it would add enough delay to make it function as it did on the 2412. After doing that it would not be possible to use the Restore Modem (PLM) function. Just too much exposure when the simple delay works.

First the Dual Band PLM does have a faster processor. This is both from a user who took one apart and a post from Steve Lee (Smarthome rep) documenting the fact that the 2413 PLM has a faster processor. Also the link record order in the 2413 could well be different than what was in the 2412 PLM. The links in the 2412 would have accumulated over time as devices and Scenes were created, changed etc. The link records in the 2413 PLM were created by the ISY Admin Console command to Restore Modem (PLM). This could put the links used by the ISY as a Controller of the Scene closer to the beginning of the link database. I am afraid the question is more how did it work before than why it has a problem now. The KPL hardware/firmware is driving the Scene since button B is a Controller of the Scene. This ISY PLM hardware/firmware is driving the same Scene since the ISY Program is also initiating the Scene. Two devices driving the same Scene at the same time is a failure just waiting to happen. Not sure why the redundant initiating of the same Scene. I would either remove button B as a Controller of the Scene, making it a Responder only or stop driving the Scene with the ISY Program. The Scene should execute correctly with only 1 Controller driving the Scene at a time. Either the KPL button B or the ISY Program, but not both at the same time. Or use the delay and effectively drive the Scene twice.

Are both KPLs button B Controllers of the same Scene the Program Then section is invoking?

The If is reevaluated when it comes out of the Wait. Very likely the Motion Sensor is no longer ON after 2 minutes.

Have you tried 'XXXX- SetBack Failure'

Perhaps Michel or Rand can provide a more informed answer but I think you want to run in Automatic. It will likely require you to Remove the KPL and add it back under 2.8.2 to eliminate the need to specify other than Automatic when updating the toggle mode. My KPL add and toggle mode test was at 2.8.2 and in Automatic mode.

Illusion, One difference is the KPL was added under an image before 2.8.2. On my system the v36 KPL was added after upgrading to 2.8.2. Since the trace shows no attempt to use the 2E Extended command that both Tim and I see when doing the same thing it is likely the device definition was done before 2.8.2 and it does not indicate the KPL is capable of using that command even though we know it is. Is it possible the ISY was not in Automatic when the KPL was added. Also does the Admin Console show the KPL at v36 or v00. TJF1960 Did you add the KPLs that are working using an image before 2.8.2.

Illusion, Thanks. The Event Viewer trace provides the answer. Your trace is using the old direct memory update to set the non-toggle Off mode. The memory map for KPLs has changed a number of times and is likely not compatible with v36 firmware. I suggest updating to 2.8.2. I see the same very short 4 line command sequence to update the KPL toggle mode that Tim posted a few entries back. This is the latest and now revision independent method for updating the toggle modes. Remember that it is necessary to cycle the On/Off buttons once after setting the non-toggle Off mode for the OFF button to no longer turn the LED On. Lee

There are various Insteon devices that can control high watts/amps 240V devices. However, before spending any time in planning a specific solution a test using actual Insteon devices in that environment must be done. Insteon devices are very particular about 60 cycle frequency because they insert the Insteon traffic just before the zero cross point. If the frequency is not very precise the Insteon signal does not get inserted in the correct location on the sine wave. Also the sine wave generated by some generators is not good enough for Insteon devices. Not from a power supply point of view but because the Insteon signal must be inserted at exactly the right spot on the sine wave. Many generators do not provide an accurate enough 60 cycle sine wave for Insteon devices to work. Others do not generate a good sine wave. You will find this discussed on the Smarthome Forum. Insteon works great on utility power, but does not work well at all on a backup generator. May be less of a problem for a generator large enough to run an entire resort but I would not invest time and any large amount of money without knowing Insteon does work reliablely.

Illusion, Sorry for the slow response. The last two days have been hectic. I was successful in reproducing Tim's result. 6 button KPL, v36, ISY 2.8.2. Setting the On/Off node to non-toggle Off mode, cycling the ON/Off button once leaves the OFF button with no LED illumination when OFF. Lee

Tim, You did not. I will have to pay more attention to my phrasing as that post was meant as a catch up and be humorous at the same time. Was out of town most of the day, scanned the UDI posts as well as the SH post when I got back and was trying to summarize what I thought had been determined to that point. I really enjoy working a problem and finding answers. In this case it looks like you have already done all the analysis. The Event Viewer trace shows the ISY is using the latest 2E Extended Set command to set the option. This is the latest and best technique. It works on all your v36 KPLs. Now it is a matter of figuring out why it does not work for Illusion. Could be a change that was implemented going into the 2.8.x images or something specific to Illusions powerline environment but I would think there would be more issues visible if that. Illusion, Can you run the Event Viewer trace Change level 3 that Tim ran while setting the ON/OFF node to non-toggle Off mode so we can compare what ISY is issuing at 2.7.15 versus 2.8.2. Also cycling the On and Off buttons appears to be a necessary action to get the Off button LED Off.

What type device ("light") is ELK turning On and how is it doing it. I did not think ELK had the ability to issue Insteon commands. Also unless the ELK is turning on an Insteon Scene that includes the ISY PLM the ISY will have no idea that ELK sent an Insteon command to a device. If ELK is sending an X10 command to turn On an Insteon device exactly what "statement" did you create in the ISY to react to this. Again, just turning on an Insteon device using X10 from ELK does not notify ISY PLM that an Insteon device change has occurred. You would have to Query the device on some routine basis to know about the device status change.

Don't give up yet. We are just getting started!

Let me summarize, ISY should support a function the User Guide says does not work, using a forum post process from Steve Lee (really good guy from Smarthome) which is more than a year old that describes a technique which varies based on KPL revision and sometimes requires it to be done more than once as it does not always work the first time. Wow, do I love a challenge.

No need to do more testing on V2 MS. Night Only does not work with Jumper 5 installed. Jumper 3 will establish Night Only mode with Jumper 5 removed. The pot will adjust the Dark level with Jumper 5 removed.

That is "Control" with "Fast On" which is the command an Insteon switch issues when double tapped. Double tap timing is important for the switch to send a Fast On command.

Based on the online KeypadLinc User Guide the dedicated ON/OFF buttons cannot have the toggle mode changed .... "You can change any button, except the dedicated On/Off Scene buttons, to one of three Button Modes:"

Thanks. I'll look into the commands that are executed. The memory map for KPLs has changed a number of times making it difficult to manage things like toggle mode. Just to be sure I understand, the change is also affecting the ON button as well. You are putting the load control button (ON & OFF in 6 button mode) in non-toggle ON mode. This precludes the OFF button from sending an OFF command attogether??. I've changed 8 button KPL modes but never tried it on the load control of a 6 button KPL.

How are you manually getting only the OFF button not illuminated without affecting the other buttons?

Billy, According to the V1 Quick Start Guide Jumper 5 is not used for V1 Motion Sensor. Unfortunately I don't have a V1 Motion Sensor to test against so anything about that revision would only be a guess. Perhaps someone with a V1 MS can provide input on the Dark level value (smaller/larger is Darker). Lee

Billy, Thanks. Looks like Smartlabs added some software controlled switches in the V2 Motion Sensors that control Night Only mode and On Only mode when Jumper 5 is in place. These software switches look like they control the respective functions independent of the individual hardware jumpers when Jumper 5 is in place. It will take a few days to sort this all out. I suggest you remove Jumper 5 for now and use the other individual Jumpers and pots for now. The software set Timeout value works because the default is to signal On/Off motion. The default for Night Only is to Operate Always so the Dark value does not seem to matter if the controlling software switch has not been set to Dark Only mode. Not absolutely sure about all the combinations of what does or does not work when Jumper 5 is in place. More information to follow once I understand all the combinations. Lee

Billy, For a V2 Motion Sensor the smaller the number the darker the condition. TJF1960 Is your Motion Sensor V1 or V2? Thanks Lee

Can you expand on the physical set up. Two KPLs; each Main A is controlling a different load?, or the two KPL Main A buttons are connected to and trying to control the same load. Also individual Main A button control through the Admin Console does not cause any Scene relationship to be involved. Turning On/Off Main A on KPL A does not cause Main A on KPL B to turn On/Off. Insteon does not work that way. If you want both switches to remain in sync when controlled from the ISY you must use the Scene to turn On/Off.

Try unplugging PLM and ISY for 30 seconds. I have seen short power glitch hang a PLM. Could have died from power glitch but worth trying a power cycle of both before replacing PLM.

Thanks Michel. I have older LampLincs which do not function as Controllers, all my newer LampLincs do function as a Controller. I have never seen any ApplianceLinc, even the ones with local load sensing, have the capability to report that state change back. Even the ApplianceLinc online User Manual does not discuss linking an ApplianceLinc as a Controller. Learn something new every day.