shadowb

stusviews, yes I meant compound with AND's and/or Or's. For example, I can write a compound IF with two AND'ed clauses. If the clauses are AND's it's important that the events in both clauses be "True" for the entire evaluation of the IF statement. In a true event-oriented system an Event occurs at a point in time, and then it's gone. A Status is persistent. ISY seems to mix the two with Control and Status options in the IF. I suspect that the Control "events" are actually persistent at least for the duration of the evaluation of the IF, so in a sense it's a "status" that the Control "event" has happened. So what's confusing is an IF with two AND'ed Control settings. One would think that Control's are events (e.g., a button pressed and released). But since events are transitory how can it ever be True that "Button A pressed and released" is true at the exact same moment that "Button B pressed and released" is also true. The ISY engine timings have to somehow detect that two transitory events are in fact related - but how long should it wait after Button A to see if Button B is going to be pressed also to make this compound IF statement evaluate to True? One possible answer is it will never be true. There are programming languages in which the evaluation of a compound IF statement will not include one of the operands due to the order of evaluation. Languages have rules for order of evaluation and I'm just trying to discover what the rules are for ISY. Am I making sense here?

I do not have an order dependent situation yet but have read about some folks who are having problems with compound IF clauses. I wanted to try to understand any order/timing dependent issues before I went much further with programming. As a long-time programmer (various assembler, Pascal, BASIC and object-oriented languages including Java) who has written device control programs I prefer to understand the algorithms if at all possible, rather than having to figure them out via trial and error. For now I'll just try to keep it simple. I may try to do some experiments and if I find anything interesting I'll report it here. I very much appreciate an active forum like this ... learning from others really helps speed things along. Richard

I suspected my question wasn't very clear ... I understand how ISY executes programs ... I'm interested in the mechanism that ISY uses internally to monitor/detect events and then the order that it invokes triggered programs. For example, I assume the ISY is monitoring the powerline and RF inputs watching for valid Insteon and X10 events (X10 included since an X10 event can be in the IF clause even if not in the Link Table). When it detects an event it must process the "programs" in some order to decide which IF clauses and ELSE clauses to trigger. Is that order predictable and/or user controllable in any way? I could try doing some tests but coincidences could lead to an incorrect conclusion. The fact that IF/ELSE clauses can be AND'ed raises a crucial timing question. If an IF clause specifies two AND'ed Control events what is the required time relationship between the two events that results in them both being TRUE at the "same time". I can see how AND'ing a Status works because Status is persistent but Control events are transitory. When I was using Houselinc I discovered lots of undocumented nuances in its behavior. I'm just trying to understand the nuances of ISY so I can use it most effectively and avoid dead-ends. Thanks for your patience, Richard

When does ISY run the programs? e.g., 1) when it detects any event, Insteon or X10, from any device? 2) when it detects only events in its own link tables? 3) other ... Is there any order in which the programs are run? I did a Google on these topics and didn't find anything useful. Are the inner-workings of ISY described somewhere? Thanks, Richard

Yes, I got the "Scene folder" term from another Web site and the author probably coined it because the Scene acts somewhat like a folder for the devices it "contains". In any case I think the separate sets of settings (Scene level and device level) is one of the most relevant aspects of Scenes. To test it I set some Scene level properties and quite different device level properties associated with a RemoteLinc button controller in the scene. Voila. I really have two separate scenes. One set of properties if the scene is invoked from a program and a different set if it's invoked using the RemoteLinc button. I don't know yet how I'll use that capability, I currently have made them the same, but it's useful to understand the difference. A use may become apparent. Thanks for your help.

Finally all switched over to ISY994i with several Scenes and Programs. Let me see if I understand Scenes (after reading quite a few forum epiphanies about Scenes and trying some experiments myself.) 1. A Scene can have multiple sets of properties associated with the devices in it. 2. The Scene folder level defines a set of properties for each of the devices. 3. Each controller in the scene defines a set of properties for each of the devices. These properties can be the same or different from the Scene folder level properties. 4. The Scene folder level properties are established when the Scene is invoked via a program. 5. The scene controller related properties are established when that specific controler invokes the scene. 6. With a scene controller selected there is an option to Use the properties from the Scene folder to make them the same. Wow, that took a while to figure out. Actually quite a marvelous scheme. Any discrepancies in my understanding? Richard

Ha! I anticipated your response having just read Mark James' "Some helpful info..." article which says ... "Understanding this is key to understanding why you do NOT want to create links outside of ISY in your home network. Doing so will render the PLM records inaccurate and therefore your ISY info inaccurate. So always link your devices through ISY." Wish I had found this article earlier, but last night I just wanted to get all my devices back working normally before completing the ISY installation. I guess that's not possible. My goal was to keep the existing Houselinc system running day-to-day while I'll got the ISY994i up and running then switch over all at once. My Houselinc system uses Events entirely and no Scenes. Together with the links created in the devices the whole system works great. Trying to minimize disruption on the switch-over. Suggestions are welcome! Richard

LeeG, Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, the 3D.C7.BE is my new 2413S PLM that I did not recognize because it's not in the Device List - should it be? I deleted all devices except for three that are in hard to reach locations (e.g., attic). I did Factory Resets on the devices for which I found reliable instructions. The Factory Reset instructions vary considerably between types of devices. It's horrendous. I have about two dozen devices including several battery powered wireless only. I then added the deleted devices back and re-established links I had earlier by re-linking at the devices themselves. e.g., One SwitchLinc turns on/off all other devices in the room. I rather expected those links would show up in ISY but they don't. Is there any notion of synchronizing the links defined in the devices with links in ISY? Houselinc made a point of the difference between Scenes and device links - one being remembered only in Houselinc (scenes I think) and the other working independent of Houselinc. Is there a similar notion in ISY? So far this result is quite different from what the Quick Start process created upon initial install. So many questions as I continue to slog through all the online documentation and watch the YouTube videos. Thanks for a useful Forum and for your assistance. Richard

Just installing my ISY994i Pro to replace a Houselinc system. Have been on X10/Smarthome then Houselinc/Insteon&X10 for many years, finally migrating to 90% Insteon a few X10s left and ISY994i Pro. Some links were not discovered by ISY but are working just fine. For example, I have 2-Switchlinc dimmers, an On/Off module, and a Lamplinc in one room - using one of the Switchlinc's as Controller and the others as Responders. All works fine when I enter the room and tap the Controller. BUT ISY shows NO links for the Lamplinc. If I display the Link Table (ISY and Device tables are identical) it lists devices that I do not have and one that I have never had. 0FF8 : A2 00 22.3F.DA FE 1C 00 0FF0: A2 01 38.10.AB 4C 1C 00 0FE8: A2 00 3D.C7.BE FF 1F 01 0FE0: E2 01 3D.C7.BE 01 00 01 0FD8: 00 00 .... The 22.3F.DA is a Powerlinc PLM that was used with Homelinc and was plugged in at the time I initially ran the Linking in ISY - I subsequently deleted it and ISY updated the links but apparently not in the devices themselves (Write to Devices is ON). The 38.10.AB is in fact the Controller. Shouldn't it be an E2? I have no 3D.C7.BE device and have not removed any devices other than the PLM mentioned earlier. I'm slowly getting up to speed, reading the How To's, the WIKI, and this Forum. Any help is greatly appreciated. Richard