DAlter01

Without the narative it is hard for someone to follow along as the "why" is important. But, here are the four programs: This is Paragraph 1 program If 'CASITA / Mot - Casita On - Inst' Status is On And From 7:00:00AM For 14 hours Then $Casita_State_Occupancy_Variable = 1 Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This is the paragraph 2 program If $Casita_State_Occupancy_Variable is 1 Then Set 'CASITA / Casita Kitchen Downlights' On Set 'CASITA / Casita Living Rm Downlights' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This is the paragraph 4 program If 'CASITA / Mot - Casita On - Inst' Status is Off Or 'CASITA / Mot - Casita On - Inst' Status is On Then Run Program 'Casita Lights Off Execution' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This is the paragraph 5 program If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Wait 1 hour and 30 minutes $Casita_State_Occupancy_Variable = 0 Set 'Z-Automation Scenes / Casita Lights Off' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I use a scene to turn the lights off so that I can have it turn off slowly so that the occupants are not left in the dark if there is an unintended turn-off. They have time to retrigger the motion if they start to see the lights starting to fade out.

I figured out a way to resolve the 3% increment on the dim/brighten in the ISY. It was very simple. In the program when it sees a button press to brighten or dim a scene, I just repeat the "then" statement to brigthen or dim multiple times. So, for instance, if I want 12 percent increments, I just repeat the "then" command 4 times. It works well this way. I left this feature on my system for a while but ultimately decided to delete it. With it, I needed my KP's to be 8 button KP's with a button for brightening and a button for dimming. However, I prefer a simpler interface with 6 button KP's so I decided to eliminate that bit of code. I used a variable to know which scene I was currently in and the brighten or dim button would then brighten or dim the scene that I was currently in. Realistically, I found I didn't use the brigthen/dim feature. But, I tested it a bunch and it worked well and it is there for someone else that has the need.

I've resolved my programming problems I had with the MSII acting as a motion on/motion off. The MSII is installed in the living room of my guest casita. The issues I had were: 1. Short internal time-out period of +/- 40 minutes. 2. Sensor turning on the lights when the occupant wants the lights off. The solutions I came up with are: 1. A program is created that during defined hours, in my case 7 am to 9 pm, if the MSII senses motion, it sets a state variable called Casita Occupancy State Variable (COSV) to 1. 2. A program that If the COSV equals 1 then the lights are turned on. The normal state of the COSV is 0 (unoccupied) and will be set as shown below. 3. If the occupant turns off the wall dimmer switch, it will turn off the controlled lights but turning off the wall dimmer switch will not change the COSV value. Since the COSV remains it its same state of 1 (occupied) it cannot then turn the lights on again as long as it remains in its occupied state. 4. A trigger program called Casita Lights Off Trigger is run each time the MSII turns on or turns off (changes state). When triggered, this trigger program runs a program called Casita Lights Off Execution. 5. The Casita Lights Off Excution program doesn't have an "if" statement, the "then" clause is merely a clause to wait 90 minutes and then turn off the Casita lights. When it turns the lights off (even if the lights were previously manually turned off by the occupant), there is a second line that changes the value of the COSV variable to 0. At 0, the state variable can then turn on the lights when motion is again sensed under paragraph 1 above. The idea of this set of programs is that each time there is a change of state in the MSII (paragraph 4) the 90 minute interval in paragraph 5 is reset to 90 minutes. In paragraph 4, we don't care if the change of state is an "on" command or and "off" command as I am just looking for the change to start the trigger. If Pargraph 4 was set to only start the timer on with "on" commands, if motion was constant then the timer in paragraph 5 would expire at 90 minutes despite there being constant motion in the Casita. If Pargraph 4 was set to start the timer with only "off" commands, the timer would not reset if the MSII recorded a new "on" event. With these programs once the casita is vacant for 90 minutes then lights will go off and the COSV variable will be reset to 0 which will allow the lights to be turned on again when new motion is detected. If an occupant were to remain in the casita for an extended period of time and wanted the lights to stay on, or off, this set of programs would not defeat the occupants intent as long as the MSII sees motion once every 90 minutes. Important to this process to work successfully is a short internal timeout setting on the MSII so that is keeps sending change in state events under paragraph 4 to keep resetting the 90 minute timer in paragraph 5. I have my MSII set for a 30 second internal timout interval. I found the programs had issue when I had a long internal timeout interval in the MSII. As described above, the system is working as intended for several weeks so I think most of the bugs have been worked out of the logic. I hope this can help someone else facing a set of similar challenges. Good Luck!

Thank you both. I'll program it the best I know how and see if i can get it working reliably. On the surface, it would seem the logic will work fine. The MSII in my application is USB powered so no reason for me to worry about battery issues. I'll set it for a 10 minute time-out on the MSII and a 100 minute time-out on the variable in the ISY. Therefore, it should never turn off within 90 minutes of seeing motion. I will set the MSII to only run ON commands just to save on unnecessary ISY traffic.

HABit, I believe I understand, and it is a creative solution. I do understand that the MSII will not send additional retrigger ON commands if it is already in its own internal timer interval. My issue is the maximum internal timer interval of the MSII is about 45 minutes which is too short for my purpose. If I'm reading your post correctly, I set the ISY variable to change from a triggered value to a non triggered value at my desired 90 minute interval from an MSII ON command. And, I leave the MSII internal timer at a shorter interval (45 minutes or something shorter). And, use the MSII ON command to reset the ISY varaible timer, sometimes redundantly. And, of course, use the ISY for the OFF command once the variable changes to its non triggered value and ignore any OFF commands from the MSII. In my application, I will not do the warning with the partial dimming at the start of the off sequence but I will use a long timeframe for the off command so that the lights slowly dim until they reach zero unless the MSII (and therefore the ISY program) is retriggered ON. I may have missed or misunderstood a nuance of your solution so when convenient, please do send over a snipet of code. Once recdeived I'll play around with it and report back on this forum for the benefit of all. Thanks again.

HABit, I've been noodling around how to create a timer within the ISY to use a MSII as you describe above but have not come up with a way to do what you seem to have accomplished. Would you mind pointing me in a direction of how to do that or cut and paste a code section? I'm frustrated with the MSII internal timer and your solution will work magic to my problem....if I can figure out how to get the ISY to work as a resetable timer. Thanks

Thank you Larryllix, HA is only limited by ones imagination. Your set up has opened my eyes to some new ideas!!

So you call out all of the individiual devices you are manipulating within the program "then/else" section with essentially no use of scenes? I've been using the program to turn on/off scenes and hadn't thought of defining all of the individual devices in the program. Or, are you defining a percentage level to turn on the scene in the "then/else" section of the program. If that were possible (I haven't checked yet) I can see that being a fairly powerful option.

I wrote a nice piece of code using variables to make a brighten/dim button on my keypads. It would brighten/dim any of my general scenes by knowing which scene to brighten or dim. However, it seems the default brighten/dim command in the ISY only moves the percentage by 3%. Since there is time required between button presses, the 3% increment makes the use of the feature somewhat useless. Is there a way to change the movement on each command that it is more like 10 or 20% with each button press? They are big 75 device scenes so having 5-6 identical scenes at different on percentages isn't really a viable option.

Uh oh, not looking good folks. So I need 90 dimmers for my install. I just got confirmation they are shipping me 24. What in the world am I going to do with 24 dimmers when I need 90. Let me think.....return them? I'll call them on Monday to find out what the deal is but 24 stinking dimmers. That is a joke. **** Update, Smarthome broke the order into multiple shipments for some reason. AND, it appears they have shipped everything ordered so I retract my prior comments of concern. It seems they did me right.

We didn't know how good we had it when Joe owned the company. Yes, there were plenty of mistakes but there was at least a vision moving things forward. There might have been two steps forward, one step to the side, one step back, stand in place and do circles for a while, and then two steps forward again. But, in the end after all that movement, there was "progress" to keep things moving on a path that created a viable technology and company. Now, as you suggest, it seems to just be adrift. No discernable movement attributable to forethought, managment and, ......wait for it........leadership.

Yesterday I elected to choose insteon for lighting at my new house and ordered a large quantity of 6 buttons, dimmers, etc. Of course they were out of Lamplincs. I will know soon another indicator of the extent of the flawed logic at the miss-named company "Smartlabs", where the word Smart should be removed from the sign over the door. Will they throttle my order back and partial ship it despite still having product on their shelves? It will not surprise me and I'll comment plenty if that happens.... And, probably send back the partial shipment and spend 4X on my second choice which is Lutron. I feel like I'm gambling by investing money and time in an Insteon based HA lighting system. Some gambles pay off, some don't. I figure if I get the system fully purchased with a 5-10 percent reserve stock of replacement parts I'll have a system with a 10+ year usable lifespan no matter what happens to Smartlabs once my new system is built out. A 10 year system life is reasonable given the low cost of an Insteon based system. Anything beyond that is a gift. I'll let the forum know if my large order gets fulfilled.

Thanks all. It seems there probably isn't a measurable advantage of property value one way or another on which system is chosen as long as it isn't in a "failed" state at time of sale. Maybe it comes down to which one I like, which contractor I like, or if I want to have an owner managed technology.

Yeah, come to think of it, on my last house with the Insteon/ISY, everything was automated and I didn't have to hit switches except for something out of my routine. I guess I was spoiled. Maybe part of my frustration with the Lutron switches is I actually have to touch them becuase the house doesn't have any automation. If I upgrade to to the new Lutron, if done right, I'll rarely touch a switch.

This one is in Scottsdale, i think more like SoCal than NC. I get your point about maintenance costs. That concern was also kicking around in my head. When you see those fancy new trucks running constantly around the community from the Home Automation companies you know many people are making good money off lots of homeowners with more money than time and throwing good money at the companies. It starts a viscous cycle where the companies keep pushing prices. The first Lutron contractor I called to figure out if my 15 year old wireless Illumination Homeworks system could be improved to work with Alexa, motion switches, LED's, etc. wanted me to provide a credit card authorization BEFORE the initial get to know each other meeting and sign a form acknowleding the service rates. Their theory is they go out on sales calls for people that don't understand the cost of HA and they are trying to be transparent. Well, that rubbed me wrong. And, at their $125/hr rate starting from the time they leave their shop and their two man teams (meaning $250/hr), that conversation didn't last long. I found a nice experienced contractor with 6 employess that charges $65/hr for all but programming. The programming is $125/hr but I can't really complain about that. A good programmer can be a bargain at that rate. A bad one, well, like with everything, they are not worth minimum wage. I met the $125/hr programmer. He was either a great con-man or he actually was pretty good, not sure yet. Maybe I'll find out, maybe not. Still deciding on if I want to try and be that programmer again.

Yeah, I understood about 50-75% of that, but I think I get your point. And, thank you for the heads up on the difference between the regular and the + system. He said it came out last year so that sounds like he was talking about QSX+. Sounds like it is time for a discussion. I'm torn. I LOVE Insteon dimmer switches and most days i enjoyed building and tinkering around with the Insteon/ISY system and I had time to build it over several years. Switching to the new house with Lutron , lets just say I don't love their switches/dimmers and I suppose there are probably worse dimmer switches out there somewhere, not sure I've encountered worse except in maybe some bad Z-wave ones I saw - once. I'm sure they are reliable, they are Lutron. But after two months EVERY time I turn on/off the switch I have to make sure I hit near the center and not the top or bottom like I've done for the last 55 years. Why do they have to change the basic function of a wall switch??? OK, off my soap box. The daunting task I'm looking at now is to make the change from the old Lutron to Insteon I don't get to do that over time without having a house that is a lighting/function mess. Realistically I'd have to do it all at once and at nearly 150 devices that becomes more work than a hobbyist with lots of other stuff going on wants to tackle considering the programming I'd want to get in place, debugged, etc. The Lutron, using a contractor to install, is somewhat interesting if it wasn't for those darn switches. Does someone ever get used to them?

In a prior home I had a big Insteon network controlled by an ISY. It worked good but there wasn't any local talent to maintain it after the sale and when I mentioned Insteon to the buyer and their agents, nobody had heard of it, etc. I don't think having that automation helped in the sale and improved the property value. It was a big multi-million dollar house, the buyers had Crestron at their prior house and having a functional home automation is "expected" in that price range. I am now contemplating my options on a new house. It has an old Lutron system that needs to be completely replaced. I can go Insteon again which will take a bunch of my time to set up but a local well qualified Lutron dealer has pitched a new Homeworks system, and frankly, the price isn't that bad. Being Lutron and with that name being known among at least some buyers and certainly by their real estate agents, in the multi-million price range does anyone know if the Lutron system might add value? In other words, if I spend more money to get the Lutron Homeworks system, do you believe I'll get that increased cost back, or more, in sales price when I sell the place? Assume, of course, that I sell before the tech is outdated. He is picthing a new tech Homeworks QSX processor so I believe it should have at least a 15 year operating lifespan. I'll probably own the house for 5-10 years so a 15 year technology lifespan shouldn't be a dead system when I go to sell.

In a prior home I had a big Insteon network controlled by an ISY. It worked good but there wasn't any local talent to maintain it after the sale and when I mentioned Insteon to the buyer and their agents, nobody had heard of it, etc. I don't think having that automation helped in the sale and improved the property value. It was a big multi-million dollar house, the buyers had Crestron at their prior house and having a functional home automation is "expected" in that price range. I am now contemplating my options on a new house. It has an old Lutron system that needs to be completely replaced. I can go Insteon again which will take a bunch of my time to set up but a local well qualified Lutron dealer has pitched a new Homeworks system, and frankly, the price isn't that bad. Being Lutron and with that name being known among at least some buyers and certainly by their real estate agents, in the multi-million price range does anyone know if the Lutron system might add value? In other words, if I spend more money to get the Lutron Homeworks system, do you believe I'll get that increased cost back, or more, in sales price when I sell the place? Assume, of course, that I sell before the tech is outdated. He is picthing a new tech Homeworks QSX processor so I believe it should have at least a 15 year operating lifespan. I'll probably own the house for 5-10 years so a 15 year technology lifespan shouldn't be a dead system when I go to sell.

Michel, glad to hear UD is doing well. Having contracts to do work must be a refreshing approach by the other parties UD is working with versus the non-recognition UD seems to get from Insteon. This, despite UD being helpful to their business model. Maybe Insteon doesn't "get it" that UD isn't a competitor but is a facilitator to their tech. My last house would not have scaled up from 15 Insteon devices to 180 Insteon devices had it not been for they ISY. While one house doesn't move the needle for Insteon, times that by 1,000-10,000 houses/businesses in similar situations and it is definently signficant. Hopefully your statement of UD possibly not supporting the new PLM in a timely manner is just "talk" out of understandable frustration. There will be a lot of people that will have less need for Insteon without the ISY and, similarly, without Insteon, to a degree there will be less need for UD's products without Insteon. Bigger opportunities may dictate that direction for UD but it will be a dark period within the Insteon community.

And, the email said they will have "some" in stock in late January/early February. I interpreted that to mean they are not going to have a bunch of them and will likely sell out farily quickly.

I got some feedback from Smarthome this morning. They are discontinuing light almond for their dimmers/switches. While not discussed, I suppose that may means they will also discontinue ivory. They will support the color change kits for the switches. I was told receptacles will be in white only but they do still have some light almond receptacle dimmers. White devices are expected to be back in stock late January or early February.

Simplextech, it appears the RadioRA2 local controls (dimmers, switches) and repeaters are compatible with a Homeworks QS system such that if/when someone found themselves (or a subsequent owner) wanted to convert to Homeworks, the equipment would still be usable. Am I interpreting what I am reading correctly with that statement?

What out there has given any impression that their intentions are to take away the PLM? It's like people jump to the most outrageous of thoughts and run with it. Yes, good point. Just idle gossip that isn't good for anyone. Thank you for clarifying their long history of providing opportunities for others to integrate with their hardware. And, I also started with their software and just couldn't get it to reliably do what I wanted. Then a friend had an old ISY that he wasn't using and gave it to me to play with. With that, the seas parted, the heavens opened up, and Insteon bacame a marvelous thing for me to work with, ....once I had an ISY.

The thought of that would send shiver's down the spine of a lot of people. But, that type of stuff does happen. I haven't tried their app since the first generation HUB, what a catastrophe that was. That's fine if they want to get into the software business with an app. But, the reason they have people that buy a bunch of their product is because of the ISY and probably other control systems. It isn't because of their software and will never be. If they want to sell hardware, they will kill their business model if they take away the PLM.

With Bumpershoot posting the new FCC filing, that doesn't sound like a company "winding" down. Maybe, as some have suggested, they are preparing for a relaunch. I will admit the Inteson devices function very well for the price. I've tried the Lutron and some Z-wave switches and Insteon is the clear leader with their dimmers/switches. Remembering the pre-set on level, fast response, a true rocker switch, excellent tactile feel, good looks (opinions may vary), its hard to move away from the Insteon dimmers. Do I pay the price financially and probably in complexity by having a Lutron system that is 100% reliable and I know will be around 10 years from now or do I roll the dice on Insteon staying around for the next 10 years and having a combination Insteon/Z-wave system. As Asbril has pointed out, there are other options as well but I don't think I can put more variables inside my tiny brain and keep my sanity.